Miracles of Muhammad

[FireFromHeaven]

I found this list of Muhammad’s miracles. What do you think? What would these miracles mean? How would a false prophet do this?
gawaher.com/topic/32110-miracles-predictions-prophecies-of-prophet-muhammad-saw/

 

[bzkoss236]

Demons, while not necessarily able to do actual miracles, can deceive and make illusions that appear to be miracles.

Now, I haven’t read the Quaran, but taking the first example. If the moon was split, does it mention it being put back together? If not, then how did the moon get put back together? You could make assumptions, or it was an illusion and not an actual miracle and once people stopped paying attention to it, the illusion faded.

The same could be said for any miracle, which is why miracles are put through the wringer in the Catholic Church to verify authenticity and to rule out natural causes.

If you read when Muhammad encounters the “angel”, it reads more like demon possession. So, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was in fact demon possessed and these were not real miracles.

Or they simply never happened and it’s all story.

Those are possible explanations.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

The quran seems to imply the only miracle Muhammad really gave was the miracle of the quran, which is apparently so perfect that it in of itself constitutes a miracle, which is questionable to say the least. Any sort of work is going to have detractors be it on the content or style, i happen to find the quran quite incomprehensible as alot of it makes no sense unless you understand the supposed life of muhammad and in that way it is deficient and not self explanatory and clear as it claims.

 

[bzkoss236]

The quran seems to imply the only miracle Muhammad really gave was the miracle of the quran, which is apparently so perfect that it in of itself constitutes a miracle, which is questionable to say the least. Any sort of work is going to have detractors be it on the content or style, i happen to find the quran quite incomprehensible as alot of it makes no sense unless you understand the supposed life of muhammad and in that way it is deficient and not self explanatory and clear as it claims.

And if the Quran was really perfect, there would be no denying it, nor would there be at least 2 sects of Muslims who interpret it differently.

 

[Servant19]

Who is to say, that we, as imperfect and puny specks of dust in this vast Creation, even know what perfect even means?

To judge something as imperfect simply because imperfect people interpret it in imperfect ways does not deny that something may be perfect.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Who is to say, that we, as imperfect and puny specks of dust in this vast Creation, even know what perfect even means?

To judge something as imperfect simply because imperfect people interpret it in imperfect ways does not deny that something may be perfect.

-Then Islamic claims that the holy texts of Judaism and Christianity are corrupt or incomplete are invalid, and
-the flip side of your above statement (being that we can not claim something is perfect) would invalidate claims concerning the Quran

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Who is to say, that we, as imperfect and puny specks of dust in this vast Creation, even know what perfect even means?

To judge something as imperfect simply because imperfect people interpret it in imperfect ways does not deny that something may be perfect.

In that same vein then, how do we know that the Qur’an is perfect, if none of us can truly understand what perfect is? We should take just Muhammad’s word for it?

 

[benjohnson]

The “splitting of the moon” is crazy frankly - the resulting effects of the tidal forces would have been recorded by every literate civilization on the planet.

 

[benjohnson]

To judge something as imperfect simply because imperfect people interpret it in imperfect ways does not deny that something may be perfect.

It would be wise to point of that Perfection is not always virtue outside of God’s kingdom. Some people’s minds are almost perfectly crazy for example.

 

[Augustine3]

I found this list of Muhammad’s miracles. What do you think? What would these miracles mean? How would a false prophet do this?
gawaher.com/topic/32110-miracles-predictions-prophecies-of-prophet-muhammad-saw/

Let’s examine the evidence presented:

First the Quran – there’s nothing miraculous about a series of words being arranged in a unique way to convey a message. If this is supposedly miraculous then by the same standard Beethoven’s 9th symphony must be miraculous since it is considered one of the best symphonies of all time uniquely composed by a deaf man.

Second the works of Sahih al-Bukhari – I find it interesting there is no actual miracle recorded in the Quran itself (the reference to the splitting of the moon is very ambiguous and argumentative). The first recordings of authentic hadith miracles are recorded approx. 200 years after the death of Muhammad. Obviously none of the companions were alive during the recordings of these hadiths. In 200 years of oral tradition a lot of exaggerations could have taken place.

 

[rinnie]

Who is to say, that we, as imperfect and puny specks of dust in this vast Creation, even know what perfect even means?

To judge something as imperfect simply because imperfect people interpret it in imperfect ways does not deny that something may be perfect.

Jesus commented on that also. And you brought up a good point.

But we are indeed (name removed by moderator)erfect and can I believe all agree on that no matter what faith.

So now comes the question if there is no perfection how can one know who to listen to.

Well Jesus tells us Human mind cannot detect the mind of God. Only Divine. So we have the Holy Spirit to teach us and guide us. And what happens when you listen to the Holy Spirit!

Perfect Truth and consistent teaching.

So rely on oneself to teach the word of God and you will never have a full and true understanding of the truth of God.

Rely on the Holy Spirit and you will not be separated from the truth.

 

[Sam_777]

If miracles really had happened, and since they are fundamentally very important events, then Quran should have mentioned them, which did not happen!, on the contrary there is a verse in Quran which clearly states that there are NO SIGNS for Muhammed per Quran (17:59):
“And We refrain from sending the signs, only because the men of former generations treated them as false: We sent the she-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes, but they treated her wrongfully: We only send the Signs by way of terror (and warning from evil).”

 

[rinnie]

Jesus commented on that also. And you brought up a good point.

But we are indeed (name removed by moderator)erfect and can I believe all agree on that no matter what faith.

So now comes the question if there is no perfection how can one know who to listen to.

Well Jesus tells us Human mind cannot detect the mind of God. Only Divine. So we have the Holy Spirit to teach us and guide us. And what happens when you listen to the Holy Spirit!

Perfect Truth and consistent teaching.

So rely on oneself to teach the word of God and you will never have a full and true understanding of the truth of God.

Rely on the Holy Spirit and you will not be separated from the truth.

oh o sorry about that lets try sentence 2 over again.

But we are all indeed (name removed by moderator)erfect. I believe we can all agree on that no matter what faith. Better

 

[robwar]

And if the Quran was really perfect, there would be no denying it, nor would there be at least 2 sects of Muslims who interpret it differently.

There is more than 2 sects in Islam and then you have to include the hadiths etc which “interpret” the Koran. But that same argument can be used against the Bible and the split between Christians over it. But to keep this thread on topic, Mohammed’s only “miracle” was the Koran and nothing else. But he didn’t even write the Koran himself but had his followers memorize it and then write it down after him. So you have a gap between his visions and the recording of his visions in the Koran.

 

[robwar]

Who is to say, that we, as imperfect and puny specks of dust in this vast Creation, even know what perfect even means?

To judge something as imperfect simply because imperfect people interpret it in imperfect ways does not deny that something may be perfect.

I think it not so much that we are imperfect or that a religion is imperfectly practiced but on the whole what does the Koran teach and lead its followers to do? If the Koran is “perfect” then why in some parts it is peace and harmony and the other parts violence to those that don’t follow it and in Islamic schools of thought, they get around this by saying the later visions or written parts over rule the earlier peace/love/tolerance parts of the Koran.

 

[ffg]

Who is to say, that we, as imperfect and puny specks of dust in this vast Creation, even know what perfect even means?

To judge something as imperfect simply because imperfect people interpret it in imperfect ways does not deny that something may be perfect.

Didn’t we discuss this already? I remember paintings and painters.

If perfection makes Himself known to the imperfect, they then can know at least where to find perfection.

Though we are only human, we are not rocks.

 

[robwar]

I found this list of Muhammad’s miracles. What do you think? What would these miracles mean? How would a false prophet do this?
gawaher.com/topic/32110-miracles-predictions-prophecies-of-prophet-muhammad-saw/

The bible does teach we need to test spirits and miracles. The Catholic Church does the same thing before approving of any miracle or private revelation. But the Koran directly says that Mohammed had not miracles at all.

 

[rinnie]

If miracles really had happened, and since they are fundamentally very important events, then Quran should have mentioned them, which did not happen!, on the contrary there is a verse in Quran which clearly states that there are NO SIGNS for Muhammed per Quran (17:59):
“And We refrain from sending the signs, only because the men of former generations treated them as false: We sent the she-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes, but they treated her wrongfully: We only send the Signs by way of terror (and warning from evil).”

That brings up a very good point. Now Jesus did do great miracles and it was predicted that he would.

Now I agree that God does not have to prove himself as they say. As Christ said Blessed are they who believe and have not seen.

But for the sake of arguing there were predictions of the Messiah.

Healing of the Jewish leper. authority over death, among thousands of others he did.

Now you compare Muhammad to Jesus. How can this be done.

Jesus said if you don’t believe me then believe in the miracles.

Jesus did these miracles in front of thousands.

Now could I though the power of God do a miracle right now this second. Of course I could in the name of Jesus if it is his will.

But the point here is this Jesus said he was God. He said the Father and I are ONE.

Now no other prophet ever said that. Moses did miracles in the name of God, Abraham also. But Jesus is God.

No other prophet ever said that including Muhammad. There were too many times in the gosple that the miracles of God could have been denied. But they never were.

There is a reason Jesus did these. To not only teach and preach but to SHOW people he was indeed who he said he was.

How could anyone accept his miracles, believe all of his teachings but then turn around and deny him being God?

What amazes me is every sing faith broke off from the true word of God, continue to teach some part or scripture of him. Why?

Why would Muhammad be a true prophet of God but yet not accept all of his truth?

Muhammad tired to teach the word of God but was laughed at because of his constant contradictions.

Sure its easy to teach your way and say its Gods way to people who know no better, But what about the people at the time of Christ who knew the true word of God and laughed him out of town.

If he were a true Prophet this would not have been so.

When the Jews tried to trick Jesus they couldn’t. Alone thousands of Catholic Monks that knew he did not know the word of God. Only what he heard and could remember. And half of what he repeated was in direct conflict with the word of God and he was called on it many of times.

 

[cmodrmac]

“demons, while not necessarily able to do actual miracles, can deceive and make illusions that appear to be miracles.”

A theological question are you implying that Angels can only appear to Catholics? -why would this be so?

 

[bzkoss236]

“demons, while not necessarily able to do actual miracles, can deceive and make illusions that appear to be miracles.”

A theological question are you implying that Angels can only appear to Catholics? -why would this be so?

Angels appear to whomever God wills them to. But in Muhammad’s case, his “visitation”, if you read it, sounds more like interaction with a demon.

It would be ridiculous to say that angels only appear to Catholics when angels appeared to the Jews in the OT, and more specifically to Mary in the Gospels.

And in regard to the part you quoted, what I meant by that is that since demons are disconnected from God, they cannot perform actual miracles.