Miracles of the Bishops - Where are they?

[King_s_X_Fan]

I recently had the following question posed to me on a messageboard, and I was wondering if anyone here might have some insight into how to answer it. It was posited by an evangelical with whom I was having a dialogue about salvation which (naturally) pro/di/regressed into a discussion of the authority of the Church.

I believe that Jesus gave his apostles power to preach his word. He gave them the power to heal the sick in his name, perform miracles in his name and so forth. If Peter was the big guy in the Roman Catholic Church in its beginning, I assume he passed down “power” to the next guy and so on and so forth, yes?

And here we are with today’s pope…

I believe Peter and the other guys had those powers Jesus gave them. Did those guys grant those same powers to the next pope and so on and so on? You believe that in John 20:23 Jesus gives them the power to remit sins and such.

Can the pope or arch bishops today (or even in 1688) perform miracles or heal the sick in God’s name? Cure cancer maybe? cuz that would be pretty impressive.

I think the guys that came after the original apostles to spread the word are commissioned by God and are disciples, but not necessarily given those special powers that were granted to the original apostles.

My initial response was just that this was a good question that I would have to research a bit. I have some thoughts but nothing from a credible source. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[Peg]

All priests and bishops perform miracles every day. It is of course called consecrating bread and water into the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. All priests and bishops that have been cannonized have at least two miracles attributed to them.

This power for miracles was not just given to the priests and bishops. Laity who are conformed to Christ can perform miracles. I heard a story about St Theresa of Calcutta. Some men were moving a desk into a room for her and it would not fit because it was too large. She told them to sit it down and she prayed about it and then told them to try again and it went in. Close friends of Christ are very powerful. What a goal to go for. To be soooo close to Christ.

Christ told his followers they would be able to perform greater works than he had done! Isn’t that amazing? As Mother Angelica would say’ “We are all called to be great saints!”

 

[Cephas]

Miracles are supernatural works performed by God, and at times through man. This is not a ‘power’ that man ‘possesses.’ Miracles, also, are for man to give glory to God. They should also move to conversion, pointing to something else (external miracle to internal conversion).

Yet, we do see the greatest POWER and Miralces being performed everyday, everywhere by Bishops and priests (a power specifically given to them by Christ, as read in the NT), the consecration of bread and WINE into the Body and Blood of Christ; the actual forgiveness of sins.

It can be sad when those who argue for seeing miracles as proof of whatever view they have in mind, fail to really encounter our Lord and his words.

 

[King_s_X_Fan]

Thanks for the replies so far. I must admit that in looking at the trees I missed the “forest” that is the miracle of transubstantiation.

That said, I don’t think that example will go very far in answering the concerns of my evangelical brother

Any other (name removed by moderator)ut would be welcome!

 

[ILO]

This power for miracles was not just given to the priests and bishops. Laity who are conformed to Christ can perform miracles. I heard a story about St Theresa of Calcutta. Some men were moving a desk into a room for her and it would not fit because it was too large. She told them to sit it down and she prayed about it and then told them to try again and it went in. Close friends of Christ are very powerful. What a goal to go for. To be soooo close to Christ.

I would hate to be the guy who has to move the desk back out afte her death!

 

[King_s_X_Fan]

ILO:

I would hate to be the guy who has to move the desk back out afte her death!

 

[King_s_X_Fan]

Bump. I was hoping for a little more discussion on this…

 

[jhnsn]

There have been many priest that have performed miracles Padre Pio is the first one that comes to mind. Ignatious Loyola etc…
Miracles are sign post to Jesus they are not an end to themselves. If they want miracles look at Fatima and Lourdes or the incorruptible saints.

 

[Trento]

King's X Fan:

I recently had the following question posed to me on a messageboard, and I was wondering if anyone here might have some insight into how to answer it. It was posited by an evangelical with whom I was having a dialogue about salvation which (naturally) pro/di/regressed into a discussion of the authority of the Church.

My initial response was just that this was a good question that I would have to research a bit. I have some thoughts but nothing from a credible source. Any help would be appreciated!

This may help you.

**The cessation of the Apostolic charismata is based on the following lines and has nothing to do with feeding sheep.

1Cr 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

1Cr 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

1Cr 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether prophecies, they shall fail; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall vanish away.

1Cr 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

1Cr 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Hebrews 1; in these last days has has spoken to us in His Son. That even in the Apostles lives the gifts had ceased or nearly so: Timothy was to take wine for his infirmities rather than be healed by Paul Tim. Trophimus was left ill at Miletus

1. The New Testament teaches that the reason for these gifts was to authenticate Jesus and the Apostles and the associated coming of New Revelation. The sign miracles, in their abundance was for proving things to be from God, to prove that God spoke Dt. 13, & 18 Isaiah 41:21- John 20: 30-31 Jn. 10: 37,38 see also Jn6:14; and 7:31 2 Cor. 12:12 Gal. 3:5
2. That gifts were conveyed only through the laying on of apostolic hands. Ananias doesn’t fit that with Paul Acts 9,22,26
3. The office of Apostles was foundational and would necessarily cease or be completed. Acts 1, 10: 1 Cor. 3; Ephesians
4. History shows that the gifts did cease . When they ceased varies with the position.**

 

[twf]

Miracles do happen, and bishops and priests sometimes have performed miracles. And like others on this thread have said, some among the laity have done likewise.

This Evangelical, however, misunderstands apostolic succession. The Bishops are indeed the successors of the apostles, but they themselves are not apostles. They succeeds the apostles in their ministry, but they do not individually have the full authority and charismas of the apostles (with the exception of the pope, who has full apostolic authority, but even then, he is not an apostle in the proper sense, as he does not have all of the same charismas they had). The Church teaches that the bishops have been endowed with the ‘binding and loosing’ authority that was given to the apostles:
Verily I say unto you, what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Mat. 18:18)
Our Lord, here, used rabbinical language. The authority to bind and to loose referred to their teaching authority, and their authority to impose disciplines. And in the New Covenant, it also entails the authority to ‘bind and loose’ sins (Jesus specifically gave them this power in Jn 20:23).

This authority is not dependent upon the spiritual state or morality or supernatural charismas of the individual. We can see in Mat. 23, though this directly applies to the Old Covenant, that even though the Pharisees were corrupt and hypocritical, they still had binding and loosing authority that Jesus expected His followers to obey (until the Church age began, then the binding and loosing authority was transferred to the apostles and bishops of the Church…though the Pharisees still would have had civil authority for a time that they had to obey):
1 Then spake Jesus to the multitudes and to his disciples,
2 saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses seat:
3 all things therefore whatsoever they bid you, these do and observe: but do not ye after their works; for they say, and do not.

I invite you to check out the Catholic Encyclopaedia’s article on the office of bishop: newadvent.org/cathen/02581b.htm

In Christ with Mary,
Tyler

 

[ralphinal]

Remember the verse about get up and walk? What is harder to say, your sins are forgiven or get up and walk? Well, I for one would rather have priests say your sins are forgiven than get up and walk any day. Everyone of us needs forgiveness. The great miracles were used to convert people or prove a point. Now that so many of us are Christian, the need for the great miracles are gone. We still need forgiveness though. Look at John 5:1 to 18…forgivenss tied to a converting miracle. There are still some miracles, but the need is not the same