Miracles versus Science

[sophion]

If miracles really happened is totally irrelevant, the truth is that some will reject God no matter how many philosophical or scientific “proofs” are given to them.
It is written that some will reject Him and there is nothing we can do about it except pray for them.
May God have mercy on their souls, even if they don’t believe they have one.

The truth is there are lots Thomas people out there. people who would make great followers after they see proof with their own eyes.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

If miracles really happened is totally irrelevant, the truth is that some will reject God no matter how many philosophical or scientific “proofs” are given to them.

If a miracle happened…actually, no hypothetical miracle is needed to demonstrate this. When a natural event happens there seems to be no shortage of people that claim it is message xxxx from their god concept, or that it is a natural event not attributed to the god concepts that others say are responsible. I would expect similar behaviour for a “miracle.”

Pardon my mistakes. Sent from my mobile device.

 

[sophion]

If a miracle happened…actually, no hypothetical miracle is needed to demonstrate this. When a natural event happens there seems to be no shortage of people that claim it is message xxxx from their god concept, or that it is a natural event not attributed to the god concepts that others say are responsible. I would expect similar behaviour for a “miracle.”

Pardon my mistakes. Sent from my mobile device.

good point!

 

[Linusthe2nd]

No, this not the case. You misunderstand why God gives us miracles. It isn’t just to declare his existence, it is to draw men to him, even when their ideas about him are flawed. You have a very narrow understanding of these things, I must say.

Yes, that right–that’s what he thought and taught. How God saw him and what God wanted by allowing him to preach heresy is not for me to say. There are many devout Muslims who no doubt will be in heaven while many a lukewarm Catholic will find himself in the other place.

The same principle applies. If I, as a Catholic have no problem with it, why should you?

So you really think the secular press cares about a “ghetto” issue like miracles? Miracles are reported in the religious press but get little or no attention from the secular press unless it’s spectacular or an oddity. There have been many documented miracles in the 20th and 21st century but they are ignored because people simply don’t want to hear about them for the very reasons you reject them–because they won’t believe they’re real no matter how much they are reported. Jesus said that people would not believe even if one rose from the dead and stood before them. You are a perfect example of this. You don’t want to believe so you can’t believe.

Way to go Della, this guy seems to be on a crusade of some kind.
The biggest difference between CAF Radio and CAF Forums is that the radio guys don’t put up with all this harassment.

 

[gavanhe]

Not having read all previous posts, this may have already been mentioned.
Perhaps people have heard of the miracle at Fatima where 70,000 odd witnessed the dance of the sun and due to a heavy downpour of rain people were soaked only to find that after the suns’ dance they were all dry, but rather than admit to a miracle many preferred to believe their senses were mistaken rather than admit that a miracle had occurred. Not to mention the outcome of the predictions such as world war 2 and the fall of communism.

 

[edwest2]

In the Bible we read about many miracles.
For example: Sun stopping its movement, water starting to pour from a rock, Turning water into wine, Jesus walking on water, Peter walking on water, resurrection of Lazarus …

The proof that these miracles happened is only through oral and written tradition. I have no photographs or videos of Peter walking on water. Even if I had the videos these could be fake. Very clearly these miracles go totally against common sense and against all recorded experiments at least few hundred years back.

Don’t you think that believing in these miracles makes us catholics very foolish in other people’s eyes?

How do we explain these miracles? If they really happened, does it mean that all existing theories in today’s physics are only valid temporarily (that they are only valid until God decides so?) I mean, if somebody demonstrated an experiment like changing water to wine in few hours I think he’d receive the Nobel prize…

Pope John Paul II is one miracle away from sainthood. His first miracle which was thoroughly examined:

guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/14/pope-john-paul-sainthood

Catholics have looked foolish to some other people for about 2,000 years.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Bobby_Jim]

religions - christianity, islam, hinduism, etc - are full of miracle stories. but so far there are no actual recorded evidences of them. all you have are stories. nothing but stories.

All I have about anything are stories. The only way I know what I did today is a bunch of stories in my mind (memories). I tell myself the story that I had turkey soup and bread for dinner tonight. I have no recorded evidence of it though - how do I know I did that? It’s just a story.

Are the stories that were told a long time ago inherently false? Why? Because they are old? Are the miracle stories that the Christians, Muslims, Hindus tell all false? If one of those groups tells stories that are false, or if some of the stories told by all of those groups are false, does that then mean that all such stories are false?

We have all kinds of stories built around evidence of things that really happened, and yet are false*, *like reality TV. And we have other stories of things that never happened, and yet speak truth, like King Lear.

Point is, something being a story has no bearing on whether or not it really happened. Recorded evidence is just one more way we tell stories. What matters more is the motivation of the person telling the story, and what point they’re trying to make with their story. And that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.