Miracles vs. the silence of Christ?

[Caladrius]

Friends,

Miracles are necessary for faith. Christ said we should believe Him for the works He does (John 10:38). When asked if He is truly the Messiah, or if people should look for someone else, He says: “the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are healed, and the dead are raised” (Luke 7:21). The implication is: “yes, I am the Messiah, because you see these things happening”. We do not see these things happening… why not?

I do not mean the Eucharist, as appearances are easily deniable. I do not mean “miracles of forgiveness”, or the work that doctors do on operating tables. These don’t count as self-testifying miracles which Christ personally did to show His Divinity. I mean things like Peter merely saying the Name of Jesus, and the man at the beautiful gate being healed (Acts 3:1-10), or the story of the young man born blind being healed totally (John 9). Why do the healing events recorded by the Apostles not seem to exist today? We can speak of cancer going into remission, but honestly, when was the last time a blind man saw, a lame man walked, a leper become clean, or the dead were raised up?

Please don’t paste sites like “miracles of the church” or “miraculous images of jesus”. Golden Legends are easy. Photoshop is easy. I’d like to know about real persons healed by Christ. The New Creation after the Resurrection supposedly changed everything: giving men the ability to generate faith in a dead world through the power of THE NAME. If this doesn’t happen in reality, I don’t see how any of us can believe in Christ - because the power which He claims to wield simply doesn’t exist. Great pain.

 

[Verbum]

Hi Caladrius,

Christ performed a miracle for all time : His Resurrection. No other miracles are necessary. This is the central truth of our faith, and as St. Paul says : .If Christ did not resurrect, your faith is vain. (1Cor 15, 17) The corollary : If Christ resurrected, your faith is justified.

Verbum

 

[Caladrius]

Thank you for the courteous reply Verbum.

The Resurrection is indeed the central miracle of the faith, but that was not the end of the story. The New Testament continues after John 21. St. Paul claimed that the gifts of the Church continue on after the Resurrection: in Romans 12, in Ephesians 4, and in 1 Corinthians 12. He seems to constitute them as normal and normative… but today that is certainly not so. Do people simply not have enough faith?

Efficacious healing and miracles are said to be the Good News in action, at least by those who believe in the Charismatic gifts. I tend to think that’s all sensational and emotionalism…

I hope no one says “transubstantiation” or “absolution in confession” or “the universe”. Those are amazing things in theory, but they are not the works or powers Christ said are to be shown in order to prove His divinity, His gospel, and His love.

 

[Christy_Beth]

John 20:29 Jesus said to him (Thomas), “Have you come to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”

The greatest “miracle” of all is that of Faith.

 

[Caladrius]

John 20:29 Jesus said to him (Thomas), “Have you come to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”

The greatest “miracle” of all is that of Faith.

Thank you for replying Christy Beth.

Look at John 10: 30, 32, 37, and 38. Jesus said “I and the Father are one”, “Many good works have I shown you from my Father”, “If I do not do the works of my Father, do not believe me, but if I do, though you will not believe me, believe the works: that you may know and believe that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”

Faith is a great gift of God, but it is never known as the power or miracle of God in the Bible. We are given faith, and we assent to it. What we need, however, is knowledge that God loves us and is continuing to care for us, 2000 years after the crucifixion and resurrection. What we need is to know that the Trinity is real, through the works of Christ - did He Himself not say it!? We need it because are weak… or at least, I am.

Sometimes I wonder what the point of Christ’s coming was… we were without Him before His Nativity, and we are without Him after His Ascension. We’ve been waiting almost as long as the Old Testament people waited - or even longer. I find it strange that we were supposed wait and wait and wait in order to rejoice in the salvation, power, healing, and judgment of God… and then it was gone as swiftly as it came.

 

[PennyinCanada]

There are many people who have received healing. The problem I’ve encountered with people is them saying that the doctors made a mistake in the first place.

Padre Pio did many unusual things. One was a man who came for Pio’s blessing every morning. He worked on the construction site of the hospital, and one day in an explosion, he lost one eye, and the other eye was badly damaged. Pio seemed to know that day was coming, was praying for him, and when the doctors unwrapped the bandages, the eye socket that was empty now had a perfectly functioning eye. Now it’s on record the eye was gone, then it was there. Hard to imagine doctors made a mistake on that one, but that’s how hard people’s hearts are. We, as people of faith, should not be like that, but rather thank God for His kind mercy toward us.

There was the event at Fatima in 1917, where there was the miracle of the sun, told by the shepherd children ahead of time, so that a huge crowd was gathered. The day was pouring rain, the ground all mud from people, yet when the miracle of the sun occurred, they discovered the ground was totally dry. Our Lady asked us to pray for the conversion of sinners and peace in this world. To pray, to grow in holiness. These requests are relevant today. If you personally don’t see miracles, but glad. It’s a difficult place to be when we need a miracle.

 

[PennyinCanada]

Sometimes I wonder what the point of Christ’s coming was… we were without Him before His Nativity, and we are without Him after His Ascension. We’ve been waiting almost as long as the Old Testament people waited - or even longer. I find it strange that we were supposed wait and wait and wait in order to rejoice in the salvation, power, healing, and judgment of God… and then it was gone as swiftly as it came.

We are not just waiting. We are feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, caring for the ill, etc. The point of his coming was to set up his Church. He gave us baptism. He gave us the ‘ordinary’ means of going to confession so that we can come back to the friendship of God when we struggle in this world. That may not seem like a big miracle, but we can’t see how we go into the confessional covered in darkness and come out glowing in the power of God. When we are in a state of grace, we can pull down the power of God onto our families, our neighborhoods, our countries. I am so happy to say you have much more to discover!!

Remember in the New Testament, when the blind were given site, the lame walk, etc, the people of faith were thrown in with the lions for sport. To be a believer was also the great danger of being put to death in an awful way. When such grave danger is present, God’s power will be present in like manner.

 

[david_patrick]

hi,
(as follows-i don’t think i answered your inquiry to -why? but i tried a little essay on the topic)
in reference…i have read , the story of a soul, by st therese-where she reports a great darkness-that there is no heaven waiting for her/ i like those simple saints-kind of doctors of the soul…a lot of catholics would agree that the impact of her little book still impacts today;

an old monk once told me;" healees make the best healers;’ fortunate for me to have meet such persons in the church…so to let you know to whom i am (posting this): i have seen some strange things, friend…but that would put me under suspicion of being skitzophrenic-so i keep things to myself…(i end with this in no doubts)…my message, however, is that of examining by another scenario of how the gospel might rather to have been written instead of light of salvation, what if the gospel , had been more pessimestic…as if to warn by such a dark writing…as that of the science fiction character, John Titor…, as if to warn of civil war in america via 2015…but i think-the message to have been, hoax as it was…that hoax beginning the early days of the internet…that if you had an idea of the future to be so terrible, as in civil war and nuclear war, then-persons might avoid the real thing; (so that style of writing is a warning) i say this as today, even, there is a polarized nation by politics and unfair laws (ie, conflict with BC , health care, and catholic conscience); well the gospel is written in optimistic terms…now time realistically gives evil and hour-but in the long run is defeated by good…time is the optimism…(there is no hoax is victory)
i end in a prayer that i wrote for a young women on the forum…i have no doubts as per intention being prayer is power…i have no power-but notice heaven is unleashed-unleashing-dumping- an action-is power a prayer?..the after affect?not a sprinkle, rather what is old testament-‘deluge,’ used now a days as a technical term by fireman-who might review those fire supression systems in buildings-water is dumped as a flood upon a devastating fire-a deluge…
-oh! parenthetically- i forgot to mention-here on the forum-is never mentioned a consecration to mother mary -don’t know why-i do this daily of great help-if helpful, as follows: “Mother mary-i consecrate myself to Thee- my heart, my mind, my soul, my body-i i consecrate myself to Thee, my mother-MY QUEEN!”
as my optimistic prayer follows as shared…:
Intention to Our Lady-
to ask for intercession and protection of a good person,
asking for healing of heart, mind, soul, and body-
asking to supply any spiritual, safety, financial, or physical need,
then accept our prayers with maternal love-
as prayer might be an exchange of heaven and earth
that any anxious thought- -could be changed and perfected-
our whispers-and crying attended,
under heaven’s care-
that confidence in heaven’s intervention
is immediate, that we take
courage,

Listen, then Mother Mary, our soul’s voice, whisper, or cries-(being increased daily.)
-to be shared (by you, my mother) in celestial court,
from where communion of saints send help…
Show us Divine Love-and thank you for your promises-
Mother Mary pray for us-to maternally protect us. (amen)

 

[mikekle]

John 20:29 Jesus said to him (Thomas), “Have you come to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”

The greatest “miracle” of all is that of Faith.

But John 10:38 seems to contradict that?

‘Miracles are necessary for faith. Christ said we should believe Him for the works He does’

 

[Nita]

But John 10:38 seems to contradict that?

‘Miracles are necessary for faith. Christ said we should believe Him for the works He does’

The words in John 10:38 were addressed to the Jews who were accusing Him of blaspheming and were ready to stone Him.John10:37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 10:38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father." “Works” is not necessarily limited to miracles; it would include other actions as well. Knowledge of Jesus’ works are made known to us also in Scripture; we cannot claim ignorance of them.
And another point: nowhere in the passage does Jesus say, or even imply, that miracles are necessary for one to have faith.

 

[Nita]

The Resurrection is indeed the central miracle of the faith, but that was not the end of the story. The New Testament continues after John 21. St. Paul claimed that the gifts of the Church continue on after the Resurrection: in Romans 12, in Ephesians 4, and in 1 Corinthians 12. He seems to constitute them as normal and normative… but today that is certainly not so. Do people simply not have enough faith?

Romans12:5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 12:6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if** prophecy**, in proportion to our faith; 12:7 if service, in our serving; he who teaches, in his teaching; 12:8 he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who contributes, in liberality; he who gives aid, with zeal; he who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

Ephesians 4:7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. …4:11 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,

1 Cor 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 12:8 To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of** wisdom**, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of** tongues**, to another the interpretation of tongues. . Except for one mention of a gift of miracles in 1 Cor, Paul’s list of the many gifts God grants to His Church is certainly not what could be classified as “miraculous”. (In 1 Cor, the gift of healing is a separate category from the gift of miracles, so it probably refers to normal medical type ability as opposed to miraculous healing.)

There have been people exercising those gifts - the “gift of miracles” included - throughout the years since our Lord’s resurrection. Some of those miracles got recorded in Church documents, but many more are only known on a local level and never get recorded in some sort of permanent documentation that passes on to future generations.