Miracles

[GramdpaMunster]

I read an article awhile back where there is a church in Italy with a statue of Jesus and many miracles have been reported from people who go there to pray to the statue. Usually, but not always, healing from physical diseases. If you look at Jesus’ miracles in the bible you will see two things:

1. No one who asked Jesus for healing was turned down. The syrophenecian woman was told that it wasn’t right to give the children’s food to the dogs. But she did get her request. The man who did not have faith recieved healing for his son after he prayed for more faith “Lord I beleive, help my unbelief” 2) Jesus never failed when he tried to heal anyone. Jesus’ disciples could not heal a demon repressed boy, but as far as Jesus himself he never failed to heal anyone.
   The people comming to the church to pray for healing and directing there prayers to a statue of Jesus are implying that Jesus is in some way manifesting in the statue. If this were true then wouldn’t it be true that everyone who came to the church and asked for healing would recieve it? The miracle rate should be 100%.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

What is the purpose of a miracle, any miracle?

 

[DavidFilmer]

…from people who go there to pray to the statue.

I hope that’s not what they’re going there to do.

The people coming to the church to pray for healing and directing there prayers to a statue of Jesus are implying that Jesus is in some way manifesting in the statue.

The statue is a sacramental - a physical object which helps direct our attention towards spiritual matters. Usually, such objects have no profound properties.

But, God, in his infinite Mercy and Wisdom, has chosen to impart supernatural properties to some physical objects. When the Israelites looked upon the bronze serpent, they were healed (Num 21:6-9). A corpse who touched the bones of Elisha (technically, a first-class relic) was restored to life (2 Kings 13:21). A woman who touched the cloak of Jesus (technically, a second-class relic) was healed (Matt 9:19-23). And even Peter’s shadow (could this be a third class relic???) was said to have healing properties (Acts 5:15-16).

Bronze snakes and bones and cloaks and shadows have no power to heal unless God makes special provision for it. And He has done this in the past. There’s no reason to believe He would not do so in the present.

When Jesus asked, “who touched me,” the Apostles were confused. Many were pressing around Jesus, with no noticeable effects. But one touched him in faith and prayer.

But there is no guarantee that any special object will have any particular effect. Would any corpse which was thrown into Elisha’s grave have been resurrected? Probably not. (although the bronze serpent is a different case, because God promised the effect).

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Quite frankly, your argument sounds like what the crowd at the foot of the cross was shouting. Whether God cures a person’s physical ailments is up to Him, not me, and not you.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I read an article awhile back where there is a church in Italy with a statue of Jesus and many miracles have been reported from people who go there to pray to the statue. Usually, but not always, healing from physical diseases. If you look at Jesus’ miracles in the bible you will see two things:

1. No one who asked Jesus for healing was turned down. The syrophenecian woman was told that it wasn’t right to give the children’s food to the dogs. But she did get her request. The man who did not have faith recieved healing for his son after he prayed for more faith “Lord I beleive, help my unbelief” 2) Jesus never failed when he tried to heal anyone. Jesus’ disciples could not heal a demon repressed boy, but as far as Jesus himself he never failed to heal anyone.
   The people comming to the church to pray for healing and directing there prayers to a statue of Jesus are implying that Jesus is in some way manifesting in the statue. If this were true then wouldn’t it be true that everyone who came to the church and asked for healing would recieve it? The miracle rate should be 100%.

Jesus manifesting in the statue?

I can’t find that in catholic teachings. Is it a catholic position?

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Jesus manifesting in the statue?

I can’t find that in catholic teachings. Is it a catholic position?

If anywhere, it would fall under private revelation. No Catholic is under any compulsion to believe or disbelieve something like that.

 

[Luke65]

Your premise is false so your conclusion is false…

“You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away." (Matthew 16:3-4)

 

[JRKH]

I read an article awhile back where there is a church in Italy with a statue of Jesus and many miracles have been reported from people who go there to pray to the statue.

Just a point of clarification that may not be apparent. People go to the Church to pray before the statue and not to the statue.

If you look at Jesus’ miracles in the bible you will see two things:

1. No one who asked Jesus for healing was turned down. The syrophenecian woman was told that it wasn’t right to give the children’s food to the dogs. But she did get her request. The man who did not have faith recieved healing for his son after he prayed for more faith “Lord I beleive, help my unbelief” 2) Jesus never failed when he tried to heal anyone. Jesus’ disciples could not heal a demon repressed boy, but as far as Jesus himself he never failed to heal anyone.

You will also note that when Jesus healed people he said to them “Your faith has healed you”, or “your faith has saved you”. Also the person had to travel to Jesus or omeone came for them. (interceded)

The people comming to the church to pray for healing and directing there prayers to a statue of Jesus are implying that Jesus is in some way manifesting in the statue. If this were true then wouldn’t it be true that everyone who came to the church and asked for healing would recieve it? The miracle rate should be 100%.

If a person’s faith is not strong enough, or if they direct their prayers to the statue instead of to Christ, then a miracle cannot occur. However if they pray to God before the statue and they have a strong faith, a miracle may occur. - If it is the Will of God.

Peace
James

 

[leopolis1]

They don’t pray to the statue, they pray to Jesus. The miracle rate depends on the faith of those who need to be healed. If people have not enough faith, they probably won’t be healed. It seems that those who came to Jesus had faith (or their relatives or friends), that’s why they were healed.
How many % of Lutherans who pray to Jesus are healed? They come to Jesus in prayer so it should be 100%, right?
You’d better tell you Lutherans preachers not to bless gay couples and not to attend gay parades any more.

 

[JRKH]

They don’t pray to the statue, they pray to Jesus. The miracle rate depends on the faith of those who need to be healed. If people have not enough faith, they probably won’t be healed. It seems that those who came to Jesus had faith (or their relatives or friends), that’s why they were healed.
How many % of Lutherans who pray to Jesus are healed? They come to Jesus in prayer so it should be 100%, right?
You’d better tell you Lutherans preachers not to bless gay couples and not to attend gay parades any more.

leopolis,
I don’t understand the signifance of your last statement in the context of the question.
Let’s try to stick t the specifics of the OP
You post makes more sense without this last remark.

Peace
James

 

[catholic1seeks]

I read an article awhile back where there is a church in Italy with a statue of Jesus and many miracles have been reported from people who go there to pray to the statue. Usually, but not always, healing from physical diseases. If you look at Jesus’ miracles in the bible you will see two things:

1. No one who asked Jesus for healing was turned down. The syrophenecian woman was told that it wasn’t right to give the children’s food to the dogs. But she did get her request. The man who did not have faith recieved healing for his son after he prayed for more faith “Lord I beleive, help my unbelief” 2) Jesus never failed when he tried to heal anyone. Jesus’ disciples could not heal a demon repressed boy, but as far as Jesus himself he never failed to heal anyone.
   The people comming to the church to pray for healing and directing there prayers to a statue of Jesus are implying that Jesus is in some way manifesting in the statue. If this were true then wouldn’t it be true that everyone who came to the church and asked for healing would recieve it? The miracle rate should be 100%.

**You can’t pray to a statue, and I hope you, as a Lutheran, don’t get the impression that we pray to statues. **

 

[GramdpaMunster]

“You’d better tell you Lutherans preachers not to bless gay couples and not to attend gay parades any more.”

Off topic: Your confusing the LCMS with the ELC my friend. Two different denominations.

 

[GramdpaMunster]

“How many % of Lutherans who pray to Jesus are healed? They come to Jesus in prayer so it should be 100%, right?”

I guess you have a valid point here.

 

[NHInsider]

I read an article awhile back where there is a church in Italy with a statue of Jesus and many miracles have been reported from people who go there to pray to the statue. Usually, but not always, healing from physical diseases. If you look at Jesus’ miracles in the bible you will see two things:

1. No one who asked Jesus for healing was turned down.
   [snip]

If this were true then wouldn’t it be true that everyone who came to the church and asked for healing would recieve it? The miracle rate should be 100%.

Hmm. St. Paul begged that the thorn in his side be removed, and God said “no.”

 

[DavidFilmer]

Hmm. St. Paul begged that the thorn in his side be removed, and God said “no.”

Correct. All prayers are answered, but maybe not in the manner we wish.

St. Paul’s prayers (all thee of them) were also answered: “My grace is sufficient for you, for in weakness, power reaches its perfection.” (2Cor 12:9).

We do not have a “Santa Claus God” who fills his bag according to our wishes and then delivers all of our desires. We have a “Father” God, who knows that sometimes the children must be told “no” in order to allow them to grow in a greater way.

 

[JRKH]

Correct. All prayers are answered, but maybe not in the manner we wish.

St. Paul’s prayers (all thee of them) were also answered: “My grace is sufficient for you, for in weakness, power reaches its perfection.” (2Cor 12:9).

We do not have a “Santa Claus God” who fills his bag according to our wishes and then delivers all of our desires. We have a “Father” God, who knows that sometimes the children must be told “no” in order to allow them to grow in a greater way.

I Like that. Great Analogy.

Peace
James

 

[budgie2]

Anybody can perform a faith healing and if it’s the will of God a person would be healed. I don’t know about the statue that you mention in the OP. In order to faith heal, then you make the sign of the cross over a person with a crucifix or statue of Christ and say “May the Lord bless you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”. Then you should leave the statue close to the person that needs healing, over night if possible, at the end of the bed. The sick person could go for a blessing in Confessional, or to mass, and also receive Sacrament of the Sick but this should be administered more frequently.

This should replace modern medicine. I’m still waiting for two confessors and in the mean time I’m not allowed to rely totally on this method as I could be accused of negligence towards my child. At the moment I sometimes go to the doctors still. You can try it though.