Miracles

[Della]

Hi All

Re Miracles. If today someone claimed to walk on water or feed a multitude with a few loaves and fishes, would you believe them?

What evidence would be needed to satisfy you that a miracle had taken place?

I’d take the word of the local bishop, if the person in question were a Catholic. Otherwise, I’d be skeptical. Of course, Jesus proved his miracles were authentic by rising from the dead.

If there were no eye witnesses, if the third hand accounts were anonymous and contradictory, would this bring into question whether the miracles had actually taken place?

Again, if the local bishop okayed it, I’d be fine with it. Would it change how I practice my faith? Not at all. Faith in Christ is not based on his miracles, as wonderful as they were and as convincing as they should have been to Israel during his ministry among them, and were for many, many people. Christ being raised from the dead is the overriding factor in our belief in him and his miracles. As St. Paul wrote: 1Cor.13[14] if Christ has not been raised [from the dead], then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.

If you think the miracle accounts in the Gospels contradictory, you need to consult a reliable Bible commentary, such as Haydock’s.

 

[tonyrey]

Hi All

Re Miracles. If today someone claimed to walk on water or feed a multitude with a few loaves and fishes, would you believe them?

What evidence would be needed to satisfy you that a miracle had taken place?

If there were no eye witnesses, if the third hand accounts were anonymous and contradictory, would this bring into question whether the miracles had actually taken place?

As I have already pointed out, extraordinary capability requires an extraordinary explanation but extraordinariness in itself is not a reason for rejecting a claim if it is supported by evidence of unusual sanctity.

 

[Aquinas21]

Hi All

Hi, Dave. Here is a question for you.
:clapping: What do you think about what I posted in post 6 and post 9 and post 17 and post 18? :clapping:

 

[Dave_B]

“… As man led by his natural reason is able to arrive at some knowledge of God through His natural effects”

I dont believe you can arrive from a knowledge of God from natural effects. From the natural effects only, you could perceive a designer. But you dont know if that designer is one, or many, a good or bad person, all powerful or limited in power.

“… so is he brought to a certain degree of supernatural knowledge of the objects of faith by certain supernatural effects which are called miracles.”

This is just a statement not any evidence of miracles. In our day to day living, miracles do not take place. To establish the truth of a miracle you would need very good evidence. Heresay evidence is not useful as it cannot be adequately substantiated.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

If someone today claimed that they could conjure food out of thin air would you believe them? If not, why not?

Probably not initially.

At least not until it’s been demonstrated convincingly to me that the person has such extraordinary capabilities.
PPeople have been know to make a wide range of claims on their cspabilities.

 

[Della]

I dont believe you can arrive from a knowledge of God from natural effects. From the natural effects only, you could perceive a designer. But you dont know if that designer is one, or many, a good or bad person, all powerful or limited in power.

Do you really think this? Can’t you see how broad your assumptions/statements are with no evidence provided? I ask you this so you will take a good, hard look at some of the things you are assuming, such as your next statements. I would say that God has shown who he is in creation alone. Would a bad god create a good world in which every creature is provided for in such an intricate and wondrous fashion? Have you never read the Psalms in which the Psalmist praises God for all the good things he has provided and done for his people? I think you need to get your head into Scripture and solid spiritual reading instead of whatever it is you are currently feeding your mind and your soul.

This is just a statement not any evidence of miracles. In our day to day living, miracles do not take place. To establish the truth of a miracle you would need very good evidence. Heresay evidence is not useful as it cannot be adequately substantiated.

Your sweeping statement which I bolded simply can’t be proven. Just how do you know that no miracles happen on a daily basis? I suppose it depends on what you call a miracle. If you mean some grand outward display of God’s power, like holding the sun in place or making it dance, no, that kind of spectacular event is rare, and for good reason. God wishes us to love and trust him because he provides for us and loves us, not because he could knock us over with blatant demonstrations of his power.

Still, every day the Eucharist is confected on our altars, but how many realize the wonder of this miracle? Every day people are healed and benefited in small, quiet ways, but who stops to thank God for it? My own husband recently underwent surgery to remove a mass from his only kidney. It was stage 4 cancer. I know that it was our good God who helped us through that. My dh is doing well now, thank God. All the little things that needed to fall into place to make him have a good outcome did so. I can’t call that luck, but the grace and goodness of God. If you want to call it something else, that’s up to you.