Mis-understanding Homosexuals

[puzzleannie]

Tulkas1:

If you are homosexual you do not chose to be, it is a result of a imbalance in the brain, that cannot be helped or corrected by any means. It is how you were born, a natural deficiency. This is FACT, undebate-able…

Why then, do ignorant christians believe you to be evil, for living the cards you were delt? Because the bible says so? Is that what you all have? It is rediculous. Im sure there are plenty of homosexual christians, that are affraid to express themselves because of the consesquences, so they lie, to prevent themselves from scrutiny. Do not tell me they do not exist, i know a few in my real life.

You preach to love, but you hate homosexuals, it is absolutley disgusting. Those of you who do not hate homosexuals, still get offended by them because a book tells you too…I’m offended just by reading some of the posts on this site, and i am not even gay!

I can’t answer for other Christians but I can tell you that your comment does not reflect Catholic teaching or theology. In the first place, science, psychology and religion have not come up with any proven cause for homosexuality so without knowing the cause there is no saying whether or not their is a cure.

Secondly, the Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are created good, like all of us, have the same human dignity and right to respect and love as all of us. Homosexuality as a condition is inherently disordered because sexual attraction to a person of the same sex is outside the natural order. It is not part of how humans were created and not how they are intended by the Creator to relate to each other. Sex is ordered to marriage and marriage is ordered to procreation and unity, neither of which is possible for homosexuals acting on this impulse. To act on the homosexual impulse is inherently objectively sinful. The bible says this because it is true, and is part of God’s revelation of His creation, and his purpose and order of creation. We don’t believe it because the bible says it: the bible says it because it is true.

All humans (except Mary) are born disordered by virtue of original sin. We may vary in the evil and sinful impulses that arise in individuals, but we all are disordered, in need of salvation from disorder, sin and death. The Church calls us specifically to love and respect each other, including homosexuals. Love includes speaking the truth. Homosexuals who are Catholic are called to precisely the same standard, commandments, need for continuing conversion as the rest of Catholics.

 

[nike248]

siamesecat:

One point Ive been trying to make for quite a while is if you believe homosexuality is wrong, fine, don’t vote for gay marriage, youre entitled to your beliefs. But to talk about how disgusting and awful it is etc…does the bible say its wrong? Yes, in a few references. But on nearly every page of the bible it says to be nonjudgemental, be kind to others, be forgiving. If personally you disagree, fine, but you dont have to push your beliefs on others. The problem with religion is that people ignore the big picture and pick on the little things. The Muslims terrorists ignore the Kuran’s teachings to be kind and decide to only follow the teaching of killing infidels. Religion is being used for harm and persecution when overall it teaches great things!

The Quran DOES say to kill infidels and to not be friends with Jews or Christians. As a matter of fact, Mohammed promoted this religion with violence and even went so far as to marry a 6 year old child. I’ll agree that there are some passages that say something about being tolerant or kindness depending how you look at it. I don’t care what anyone says, Islam is not religion of peace. Wahhabists are actually the only ones that really follow all the teachings of the Quran.

P.S. bin Laden is a wahhabist if that gives anyone an idea.

 

[siamesecat]

CatQuilt:

They’ve begun pushing their beliefs on our children. You live in MA as do I. Haven’t you heard about what’s going on in the public schools with the gay days and gay curriculum that’s being pushed?!

No. I go to a public school and while we do have a GSA (gay straight alliance) and I did know of one openly gay student, I dont feel like homosexuality is being flaunted or shoved down my throat and we don’t hear about it all the time. I dont mind homosexuality but I wouldnt like it in my face all the time…I dont like to see anybody making out with someone in front of me regardless of gender. I really dont feel like its being pushed on me at all.

 

[ktm]

siamesecat:

No. I go to a public school and while we do have a GSA (gay straight alliance) and I did know of one openly gay student, I dont feel like homosexuality is being flaunted or shoved down my throat and we don’t hear about it all the time. **I dont mind homosexuality ** but I wouldnt like it in my face all the time…I dont like to see anybody making out with someone in front of me regardless of gender. I really dont feel like its being pushed on me at all.

Could you please clarify the bolded portion of your statement. What about homosexuality do you find acceptable?

 

[ktm]

siamesecat:

One point Ive been trying to make for quite a while is if you believe homosexuality is wrong, fine, don’t vote for gay marriage, youre entitled to your beliefs. But to talk about how disgusting and awful it is etc…does the bible say its wrong? Yes, in a few references. But on nearly every page of the bible it says to be nonjudgemental, be kind to others, be forgiving.

You misunderstand the admonition against judging others. We are not to judge another’s heart, another’s soul. If I see a man beating his wife, am I supposed to think, “Hey, who am I to judge?” Of course we can judge another’s **actions ** as right or wrong. Why do you think Jesus ate with sinners – because he was trying to get them to turn away from their sinful behavior or because he condoned it? Why did Jesus so vehemently chastise the Pharisees if they were doing nothing wrong?

You completely miss the point of the New Testament. Jesus said, “Go and sin no more” not “Go and do whatever you want because you can just ask for forgiveness later.”

 

[ktm]

siamesecat:

What belief am I pushing? I said you could disagree with homosexuality and did not urge you to accept it. I’m simply pointing out that people seem to be ignoring the biggest message of Catholicism.

As the resident atheist in this thread, perhaps you could educate us Catholics as to what the “biggest message of Catholicism” is.

 

[dcmac]

Call me crazy, but as a faithful Catholic who hopes, by the Grace of God, to be a priest one-day I can say with all sincerity and honesty that I find homosexuality to be a perverse, filthy and evil sin. Just as I do heterosexual promiscuousness, rape, murder, theft, et cetera.

That does not equate Jen1010/Tulkas1 (for you seem to be one in the same in spirit if not in person) with the notion that the Church, or I, find homosexuals in this manner.

As a faithful Catholic, I can understand the difference between the sin and the sinner. I myself am a sinner and will always be to some degree or another. However, I am also a penitent and do not go about glorifying any of my particular sins and the lifestyle(s) they would bring forth if I were to live in them instead of try to conquer them. Rather, I fight daily to conquer them.

The Catholic understanding has always been to love the sinner whilst hating the sin. Of course history shows that the sinful men/women of the Church have not always lived by that… but then they are also sinners aren’t they?

So, the key for your lot would be to understand the difference between sinner and sin and go from there. To equate the Church’s stance against sin, all sin of whatever stripe it comes in, with a stance against the sinner is false and counter-productive. If you truly wished only the well being of any individual who is a an SSA sufferer you would do well to wish for, nay pray and work towards, their victory over that sin, as you would with any sinner. To be compassionate you must first recognize the Truth of the situation and not run from it. Running from it only enables it to control you all the more. The Truth does set you free.

Also, please take a moment to read up on SSA and the variant matters of opinion from the medical community regarding the issue. It is not as clear-cut as you may believe.

My personal opinion is that it is probably a mixed bag; that is to say there is either all or some combination of some pre-disposition, some imbalance, some behavioral, some chemical (addictive – dopamine is a very powerful chemical that the brain produces with sex and it is believed that is even more addictive than the harshest of narcotics), some learned behavior, et cetera. It is more complicated than the media, the Gay Agenda Left and others would like us to believe. It is not healthy physically, psychologically, or spiritually. It is dangerous beyond belief. And for others to sugar coat it and make it OK is akin to the black and white commercial ads in the 1940s/1950s where the smoking of cigarettes was said by medical professionals and others to be healthy… we all know how that turned out don’t we?

In either case, one ought to pray for those who suffer – including homosexuals.

 

[Gabriel_Gale]

siamesecat:

One point Ive been trying to make for quite a while is if you believe homosexuality is wrong, fine, don’t vote for gay marriage, youre entitled to your beliefs.

As you are yours, even if they are wrong.

But to talk about how disgusting and awful it is etc…

I think that people are giving a visceral response. Is it a sin to say that eating escargot is disgusting. Is it a sin to say that being in an orge is gross and unhealthy? I think that you must read such statements in context. Part of the problem is that many people with same sex attraction tend to identify themselves by their desire.

But on nearly every page of the bible it says to be nonjudgemental, be kind to others, be forgiving.

So, would you object to serving on a jury based on biblical reasons? Being kind and forgiving are not mutually exclusive to making judgments. After all, if you are kind to another you may judge that he needs kindness. If you are forgiving, then one must judge some act as requiring forgiveness.

If personally you disagree, fine, but you dont have to push your beliefs on others.

Are you against all law? Laws are pushing our beliefs on others.

The problem with religion is that people ignore the big picture and pick on the little things. The Muslims terrorists ignore the Kuran’s teachings to be kind and decide to only follow the teaching of killing infidels. Religion is being used for harm and persecution when overall it teaches great things!

I think you mean people not religion. Most religious systems do distinguish between the big things and little things especially Catholicism.

 

[siamesecat]

ktm:

As the resident atheist in this thread, perhaps you could educate us Catholics as to what the “biggest message of Catholicism” is.

Well I did go to CCD for 9 years and know a lot about the religion. I would think most would agree that the biggest message of Catholicism (besides believe in god, jesus etc) would be to be kind to others wouldnt you?

 

[martino]

Tulkas1:

If you are homosexual you do not chose to be, it is a result of a imbalance in the brain, that cannot be helped or corrected by any means. It is how you were born, a natural deficiency. This is FACT, undebate-able…

Why then, do ignorant christians believe you to be evil, for living the cards you were delt? Because the bible says so? Is that what you all have? It is rediculous. Im sure there are plenty of homosexual christians, that are affraid to express themselves because of the consesquences, so they lie, to prevent themselves from scrutiny. Do not tell me they do not exist, i know a few in my real life.

You preach to love, but you hate homosexuals, it is absolutley disgusting. Those of you who do not hate homosexuals, still get offended by them because a book tells you too…I’m offended just by reading some of the posts on this site, and i am not even gay!

Well im offended by your post. You are judging us, you are intolerant of Christians! The irony is incredible!!

 

[Lisa_N]

siamesecat:

Well I did go to CCD for 9 years and know a lot about the religion. I would think most would agree that the biggest message of Catholicism (besides believe in god, jesus etc) would be to be kind to others wouldnt you?

I believe it’s love your God with all your heart and mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself.

Loving God would also mean keeping his commandments wouldn’t it? Loving your neighbor as yourself would be to treat the neighbor as you would wish to be treated. If I were engaged in dangerous, soul killing, and unhealthy behavior would the LOVING thing be to help me continue in that behavior? WOuld the loving thing be to justify and excuse my behavior? Is that what you mean by love? I don’t think so and I don’t think that’s what Jesus meant either. Too many people seem to equate love with tolerating even the most egregious behavior. I am not talking only of sexual sins but other sins as well. I don’t think allowing your neighbor to sin, to in effect kill himself is very loving. Obviously siamesecat YMMV

Lisa N

 

[ktm]

siamesecat:

Well I did go to CCD for 9 years and know a lot about the religion. I would think most would agree that the biggest message of Catholicism (besides believe in god, jesus etc) would be to be kind to others wouldnt you?

Bzzt, wrong, try again.

It’s amazing that folks think they can study their faith for 1 hour a week as children and blammo, they are experts. I’ve been a Catholic my whole life and I still feel like I know about 1% of what there is to know.

Being a Catholic cannot be reduced to a sound bite or a single sentence. If there were only one major thing to know, why are we still reading, writing, learning, studying, teaching the faith after 2000 years?

Reading Pillar of Fire, Pillary of Truth by Catholic Answers would be a good starting point for you to learn what it really means to be a Catholic.