Miscarriage

[Awake]

I’ve read that anywhere from 10% to 60% of pregnancies naturally end in miscarriage, most occurring before a woman realizes she is pregnant. (60% seems awfully high, but I have seen that number more than once.)

I understand the Catholic Church’s position on abortion. I constantly hear people praying for aborted children and for an end to abortions, but rarely do I hear a passing mention of the huge number of unborn children who are miscarried by natural means. Why do you suppose this is? Are these children’s deaths any less tragic?

 

[Trishie]

No, such deaths are no less tragic.

What is so dreadfully sad and tragic about abortions is the deliberate choice to kill a child.

 

[Awake]

What is so dreadfully sad and tragic about abortions is the deliberate choice to kill a child.

True. But to be fair, most people who have an abortion don’t believe they are actually killing a child.

The end result is the same: an unborn child dies.

 

[passus]

No, the deaths are equally tragic and equally traumatic. You are blurring the lines between the intrinsic and extrinsic aspects of each of these situations–that of therapeutic abortion and that of miscarriage. Let’s asses the situations in terms of the children’s deaths.

Intrinsically speaking, the lives of the children are sad losses to this world and surely, to their parents and families. We mourn their passing and pray for their souls, that they may be in Heaven with God in glory.

Extrinsically speaking, abortion is evil. It equates to murder and the scandal and controversy it rouses contributes to its publicity. On the other hand, a miscarriage comes about naturally by no intent of the mother or anyone else involved.

The nature of abortion simply makes it so that it is more talked-about and more discussed than miscarriage, although in neither situation is there and prejudice whatsoever to the loss of the life associated.

I hope that helps clear things up.

God bless!

 

[brotherhrolf]

I’m sticking my head out here as a father who lost two children by miscarriage twenty-five to thirty years ago. I grieved and was promptly told by DW, my MIL, and my mother to keep my mouth shut. In no uncertain terms.

My best friend’s first child was stillborn. He carried that little white coffin and placed it at the foot of the altar. His second child lived two days…I could not go to the second funeral.

What can I say? When I lost my first child and my own mother tells me to shut up and quit crying, what was I supposed to do?

At the risk of being sexist, I was a non-entity. The women in the family circled the wagons and that was that.

I was father to four children not two.

 

[Awake]

No, the deaths are equally tragic and equally traumatic. You are blurring the lines between the intrinsic and extrinsic aspects of each of these situations–that of therapeutic abortion and that of miscarriage. Let’s asses the situations in terms of the children’s deaths.

Intrinsically speaking, the lives of the children are sad losses to this world and surely, to their parents and families. We mourn their passing and pray for their souls, that they may be in Heaven with God in glory.

Extrinsically speaking, abortion is evil. It equates to murder and the scandal and controversy it rouses contributes to its publicity. On the other hand, a miscarriage comes about naturally by no intent of the mother or anyone else involved.

The nature of abortion simply makes it so that it is more talked-about and more discussed than miscarriage, although in neither situation is there and prejudice whatsoever to the loss of the life associated.

I hope that helps clear things up.

God bless!

I guess I just think of causes when children die. When children die due to natural disasters (such as floods, hurricanes, etc) and when children die due to deliberate killings (such as war, genocide, etc), most people pray for children in both situations with equal fever.

But with unborn children, victims of abortion are mourned for so much more than victims of natural miscarriages.

 

[LilyM]

Well, how often do you hear a mention of the vast majority of adult deaths? It’s because they die peacefully in their sleep and there’s nothing about their death that makes it worth special attention - death is something guaranteed to all of us, after all.

Sure, every death is important to the relatives and friends of deceased individuals, who pray for them.

And if you look through these fora you’ll see a somewhat different situation today than the sad one brotherhrolf describes some decades ago. Women on CAF today do often discuss their miscarriages, and DO ask for prayers for the souls of their babes who have been miscarried or stillborn just as they would for a child that had survived the birth.

 

[Awake]

I’m sticking my head out here as a father who lost two children by miscarriage twenty-five to thirty years ago. I grieved and was promptly told by DW, my MIL, and my mother to keep my mouth shut. In no uncertain terms.

My best friend’s first child was stillborn. He carried that little white coffin and placed it at the foot of the altar. His second child lived two days…I could not go to the second funeral.

What can I say? When I lost my first child and my own mother tells me to shut up and quit crying, what was I supposed to do?

At the risk of being sexist, I was a non-entity. The women in the family circled the wagons and that was that.

I was father to four children not two.

I cannot even imagine the pain that you must have gone through.

But I’m confused why were you instructed to keep your mouth shut?

 

[Awake]

Well, how often do you hear a mention of the vast majority of adult deaths? It’s because they die peacefully in their sleep and there’s nothing about their death that makes it worth special attention - death is something guaranteed to all of us, after all.

Sure, every death is important to the relatives and friends of deceased individuals, who pray for them.

And if you look through these fora you’ll see a somewhat different situation today than the sad one brotherhrolf describes some decades ago. Women on CAF today do often discuss their miscarriages, and DO ask for prayers for the souls of their babes who have been miscarried or stillborn just as they would for a child that had survived the birth.

Right, but people dieing in old age isn’t really considered tragic.

Sure, people pray for individual friends and families that are affected by a miscarriage as well as an elderly family member that has passed away, as they should. But I just don’t see a public outcry of miscarriages.

For instance, I heard many churches praying for aborted babies, victims of war, victims of hurricanes and floods, and such, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard a church pray for miscarried babies, (except maybe for an individual parishioner).

I’m not trying to start a fight or anything, it’s just something I’ve noticed and was curious to know if anybody saw this.

 

[LilyM]

Right, but people dieing in old age isn’t really considered tragic.

Sure, people pray for individual friends and families that are affected by a miscarriage as well as an elderly family member that has passed away, as they should. But I just don’t see a public outcry of miscarriages.

For instance, I heard many churches praying for aborted babies, victims of war, victims of hurricanes and floods, and such, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard a church pray for miscarried babies, (except maybe for an individual parishioner).

I’m not trying to start a fight or anything, it’s just something I’ve noticed and was curious to know if anybody saw this.

But why should there be a general outcry? Miscarriages are as natural as old folk dying of old age. While sad and distressing, neither case is exactly worthy of public outcry like the mass deaths involved in abortion, war or natural disaster.

And of course every blessed one of those miscarried babies is included in the prayers said at every Mass for ALL the faithful departed, and families have certainly been known to have special memorial masses said for their miscarried children.

You just don’t hear about all of them them just like you don’t hear about all the masses I’ve had said for the souls of my departed loved ones - you wouldn’t unless you were there at the actual Mass to hear father announce the intention of that Mass.

 

[passus]

I guess I just think of causes when children die. When children die due to natural disasters (such as floods, hurricanes, etc) and when children die due to deliberate killings (such as war, genocide, etc), most people pray for children in both situations with equal fever.

But with unborn children, victims of abortion are mourned for so much more than victims of natural miscarriages.

What I’m saying is that lives of children lost to abortion are not mourned any more or less than lives of children lost to miscarriage. It’s simply the circumstances surrounding abortion (e.g., the scandal, controversy, the fact that there is murder) that make abortion more publicized.

Also, with abortion, we’re not only praying for the souls of the children, but for abortion providers and political leaders and heads of state, that they might experience changes of heart and for an end to abortion everywhere.

That is entirely without prejudice to the life lost in either situation.

 

[Melissa]

But with unborn children, victims of abortion are mourned for so much more than victims of natural miscarriages.

Do not think that we who are parents of children who died before birth do not mourn our losses simply because they were “natural causes”.

We mourn those who are victim to abortion because they were victims of calculated homicide … a tragic loss of life and desperately severe–mortal, even–wounds to the souls of so many involved in the snuffing of those lives.

I have been pregnant six times. I have given birth three times (the last time was twins, therefore 4 living children). October 23. October 21. July 5. Don’t think I’ll ever forget (the two in October were both before my first born who is 15 years old; the third was between my two older living children).

 

[taylorc]

Aren’t most miscarriages the result of chromosonal abnormalities? This means that the body miscarries for a reason. Of course stillbirth is different and obviously more tragic. With abortion, perfectly healthy babies are aborted for convenience. It’s apples and oranges. One is nature taking its course. The other is trying to play God.

 

[Awake]

I think a moderator should close this thread. People are taking this the wrong way.

 

[LilyM]

I think a moderator should close this thread. People are taking this the wrong way.

Well, how else do you suggest we take it? Try explaining it again.

 

[SMHW]

I understand the Catholic Church’s position on abortion. I constantly hear people praying for aborted children and for an end to abortions, but rarely do I hear a passing mention of the huge number of unborn children who are miscarried by natural means. Why do you suppose this is? Are these children’s deaths any less tragic?

Here’s my take on the subject.

I think that public mourning of unbaptized children, whether this was because of miscarriage, stillbirth, or other reasons, was a problem for many Catholics due to the uncertainty of what happened to the souls of such children. The parents have always mourned for these children but it was often in silence.

But I think that, particularly in the last 25 years or so, there has been a growing awareness amongst Catholics that we need to ***publicly ***mourn our miscarried and stillborn children. If you visit the Parenting forum you’ll see threads about how many parents have give a name to their miscarried children, even though they may not know the sex. Many parishes have an annual memorial Mass for children who die before birth. Funerals for stillborn babies are quite common.

I think that what you claim has been true in the past but it is changing.

 

[Grace_Angel]

I’ve read that anywhere from 10% to 60% of pregnancies naturally end in miscarriage, most occurring before a woman realizes she is pregnant. (60% seems awfully high, but I have seen that number more than once.)

I understand the Catholic Church’s position on abortion. I constantly hear people praying for aborted children and for an end to abortions, but rarely do I hear a passing mention of the huge number of unborn children who are miscarried by natural means. Why do you suppose this is? Are these children’s deaths any less tragic?

No Awake, the deaths of these children are no less sad or even tragic but there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between a miscarriage and an abortion. A sin is involved in one and no sin is involved in another. The fith commandment is involved in one and not in the other. Love thy neighbour is involved in one and NOT in the other in the other the “littlest” neighbour is murdered intention whilst in the other the littlest neighbour is mourned.
So awake there is a difference between the two deaths.
GraceAngel.