Miserable medical situation - No good options

[Mrs_Sally]

Praying for you both. Please seek out your priest and ask for spiritual direction (from him or someone trained who he recommends).

 

[agapewolf]

and another issue:
God forbid something happens to your wife.

You may want to marry again, and that brings a whole issue into that scenario.

 

[Rico_S]

You’re absolutely right. It is ridiculous. As the author of that post, I am in full agreement with you. And it’s ridiculous for the reason I stated at the end of the example. I’m so glad you get me. But I disagree with you on you second point. It does apply here. One’s feelings don’t change the moral character of our actions. Otherwise, we could justify anything based on how we feel about it. If you think feelings do change whether an action is moral, please explain how.

Fornication is against church teaching. Contraception/Sterilization is against church teaching. We agree!!

But there is a big difference in being unable to be intimate with one’s spouse and deciding to go find some other woman with whom to fulfill sexual urges vs being unable to share the conjugal embrace due to circumstances as described, and taking contraceptive measures so as to continue to enjoy the bond and intimacy that results from the marital sexual relationship.

 

[FoxFanForty]

Please don’t insinuate that this is God’s will, or His plan for my life.

God is not a master puppeteer interfering with the lives and health of people on Earth. This is bad genes and bad luck because we live in an imperfect world. Plain and simple. I do not believe God wants this for me or my wife.

To say that this is His will and that He’s got some
master plan that he’s executing by putting enormous strain on my marriage and making my wife miserable is not even consistent with Catholic teaching. HE does not “do” things like this to His people.

 

[KellyPalmer]

You’re absolutely right. It is ridiculous. As the author of that post, I am in full agreement with you. And it’s ridiculous for the reason I stated at the end of the example. I’m so glad you get me. But I disagree with you on you second point. It does apply here. One’s feelings don’t change the moral character of our actions. Otherwise, we could justify anything based on how we feel about it. If you think feelings do change whether an action is moral, please explain how.

On the other hand, if you believe that feelings don’t change the morality of an action, then my example isn’t so ridiculous after all, and fornication in that circumstance is probably justified.

I agree. The example brings to light the fact that inherently evil acts can never be justified. Although this story is particularly unfortunate, evil can never be justified.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Please don’t insinuate that this is God’s will, or His plan for my life.

God is not a master puppeteer interfering with the lives and health of people on Earth. This is bad genes and bad luck because we live in an imperfect world. Plain and simple. I do not believe God wants this for me or my wife.

To say that this is His will and that He’s got some
master plan that he’s executing by putting enormous strain on my marriage and making my wife miserable is not even consistent with Catholic teaching. HE does not “do” things like this to His people.

Agree completely.
Neither does he will or desire that anyone who is put into this type of situation (for a HUGE variety of reasons) should have to endure it.
But that doesn’t change the fact that contraception and sterilization continue to immoral choices. They simply aren’t a solution to this problem.

 

[mdleagedguy]

Please don’t insinuate that this is God’s will, or His plan for my life.

God is not a master puppeteer interfering with the lives and health of people on Earth. This is bad genes and bad luck because we live in an imperfect world. Plain and simple. I do not believe God wants this for me or my wife.

To say that this is His will and that He’s got some
master plan that he’s executing by putting enormous strain on my marriage and making my wife miserable is not even consistent with Catholic teaching. HE does not “do” things like this to His people.

You’re spot on. But God can bring good out of evil. We just have to be patient and let Him do that. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. It’s heartbreaking.

 

[mdleagedguy]

Fornication is against church teaching. Contraception/Sterilization is against church teaching. We agree!!

But there is a big difference in being unable to be intimate with one’s spouse and deciding to go find some other woman with whom to fulfill sexual urges vs being unable to share the conjugal embrace due to circumstances as described, and taking contraceptive measures so as to continue to enjoy the bond and intimacy that results from the marital sexual relationship.

You misunderstand my intent and my meaning. I didn’t say the situations were similar. They obviously are not in that one case involves married sex and the other involves unmarried sex. What I did was apply the same moral reasoning to a case which is clearly wrong in order to demonstrate the flaw in the moral reasoning. That’s not to be mistaken for calling the cases similar. It’s a form of reductio ad absurdum argumentation that brings an argument to an absurd conclusion to demonstrate that the argument is flawed.

 

[maryjk]

I guess I don’t see it as sinning for my sex life, but risking myself to preserve my marriage. There really is no marriage without the marital act, and we’re too young to just give up and live like roommates raising kids together. I don’t want to sound like a jerk, but how can a healthy young man married to a beautiful wife simply cut off a huge part of his relationship with her and expect to remain happily married? We’re just not built for that. To me that is a very bleak, miserable cold way to live. **I got married so I wouldn’t have to live that way. **

Does your wife know this? That you got married so you could have sex? What would you do if she were in an accident that precluded her from having sexual relations? Would you leave her? Find a new wife?

I am glad my husband loves me enough to stay with me regardless of my health issues.

While I can abstain for a month, two months, three months - 20 years? There will be nothing left at that point. It’s unfathomable and desperately sad. I connect with my wife through sex. A lot of women might say, “Just quit for 20 years and watch your wife grow old without embracing her…” Men should understand where I am coming from. You might as well ask me not to speak to my wife for 20 years. Really. No exaggerating. I know it would destroy that part of our marriage and in 20 years we’d just be a couple of old roommates - or worse, I’d develop bad and sinful habits from 20 years of “look but don’t touch.” How can I live with this woman that I love so desperately, that I find beautiful and appealing and sexy - and never enjoy that deep level of intimacy with her? Does our Lord REALLY want that for us? Is that what we get for being open to life??

I don’t want to sin. I don’t want to be in this situation

For those that suggested an expert in pelvic trauma - she sees one at a premiere hospital. The truth is, even if she could become rehabbed to a decent point now it would still not give her the green light for more pregnancies. She called some Catholic institute for OBGYN issues and they basically told her the options were to accept a pregnancy and the physical fallout, or abstain until menopause. I’m sorry, but I’m angey that 99.9 percent of the population wouldn’t think twice about the vasectomy and this is causing me so much heartache.

She needs to call someone else.

I was told the same thing many years ago. After the premature birth of our son, we were told, “No more kids.” “Here take these pills.” “Maybe your husband could have the big V.”

I believed them, for a while. I took the pills. I did, until my soul was so anguished that I had to stop. I found an NFP only GYN. I learned NFP. I followed the most strict guidelines. Due to other issues, the guidelines loosed up a bit. The loosed up some more. I am almost to a time in life that I won’t need NFP anymore.

 

[St_Francis]

Please don’t insinuate that this is God’s will, or His plan for my life.

God is not a master puppeteer interfering with the lives and health of people on Earth. This is bad genes and bad luck because we live in an imperfect world. Plain and simple. I do not believe God wants this for me or my wife.

To say that this is His will and that He’s got some
master plan that he’s executing by putting enormous strain on my marriage and making my wife miserable is not even consistent with Catholic teaching. HE does not “do” things like this to His people.

God’s wonderful glorious plan for us was messed up at the time of the Fall Just as you have to live with a heart-rending consequence of the Fall, so does God.

I know a woman whose husband was a heavy drinker, and one day he got drunk and ran his car into a ditch. He survived, bit was completely bed-ridden, unable to do anything: work, help around the house, have sex–nothing.

And his wife took care of him, continued to raise their children, etc, until he died almost 20 years later.

She could have left him for another man andno one would have really blamed her, but she remained faithful to himdespite the fact he basically did this to himself.

Your wife is in this same situation as you are. She too will not be able to have sex with you for all those years, but what is her concern? Her concern is for your immortal soul.

True, this is not in God’s original plan, bit He did permit it to happen. And because of that, He will give you and your wife the grace you need to handle this.

As a side note: some women go into menopause early. My friend was 15 years early, I was 10 years early. I was really bummed out because my other friend did not go into menopause early, but was using abc (she’s not Catholic). I wanted more and couldn’t have them; she could have them and didn’t want them.

 

[FoxFanForty]

Well, we are going to see our priest about this. First appointment is Feb 22 though which sucks because we need to figure out a plan.

Talked to my wife about this last night, and she said that after all we’ve been through, the vasectomy does sound great - like a perfect solution, but that the Church says “no” and she doesn’t want either of us to burn in Hell. She said at this point it’s just an obedience issue, and that if our priest says to go ahead and do it, she will be okay with it. I told her we can always go to confession later.

This is so hard. I can’t just let intimacy with my wife go. Maybe some men could, but I can’t.

 

[agapewolf]

Well, we are going to see our priest about this. First appointment is Feb 22 though which sucks because we need to figure out a plan.

Talked to my wife about this last night, and she said that after all we’ve been through, the vasectomy does sound great - like a perfect solution, but that the Church says “no” and she doesn’t want either of us to burn in Hell. She said at this point it’s just an obedience issue, and that if our priest says to go ahead and do it, she will be okay with it. I told her we can always go to confession later.

This is so hard. I can’t just let intimacy with my wife go. Maybe some men could, but I can’t.

Again, get it …IT WON’T BE INTIMACY!!! you will have cut off intimacy with sterilizing it.

And I can’t tell you how offensive it is for you to say “I can always go to confession later”.

Here Jesus, let me put this nail in your hand…I’ll tell you I’m sorry later.

 

[FoxFanForty]

Again, get it …IT WON’T BE INTIMACY!!! you will have cut off intimacy with sterilizing it.

And I can’t tell you how offensive it is for you to say “I can always go to confession later”.

Here Jesus, let me put this nail in your hand…I’ll tell you I’m sorry later.

We do the best we can. I think Jesus understands and has bigger fish to fry. And why would you presume to know what is and is not intimacy between me and my wife? Are you saying that millions of loving, happily married couples have no intimacy because they use contraception or have vasectomies? I don’t think most people would say that was true. Most guys I’ve talked to about it say they never even think about their vasectomy and sex is still great…

 

[FoxFanForty]

Again, get it …IT WON’T BE INTIMACY!!! you will have cut off intimacy with sterilizing it.

And I can’t tell you how offensive it is for you to say “I can always go to confession later”.

Here Jesus, let me put this nail in your hand…I’ll tell you I’m sorry later.

And you know what REALLY won’t be intimacy?

NO INTIMACY!

 

[Sillara]

I told her we can always go to confession later.

This is the sin of presumption, one that can be mortal in itself.

 

[agapewolf]

And you know what REALLY won’t be intimacy?

NO INTIMACY!

Nope, you can have real intimacy apart from sex. If you’ve sterilized it, it’s impossible to be unifying. It’s church teaching.

You are still doing this for sex … Sacrificing your soul. Read good news about sex and marriage.

The enemy has totally deceived you

 

[FoxFanForty]

Nope, you can have real intimacy apart from sex. If you’ve sterilized it, it’s impossible to be unifying. It’s church teaching.

You are still doing this for sex … Sacrificing your soul. Read good news about sex and marriage.

The enemy has totally deceived you

Are you married? Happily?

Are you a man??

 

[FoxFanForty]

And is all “sterile” sex without value or intimacy? A woman who has had a hysterectomy, a man who has had testicle cancer? A woman who takes hormonal meds making her lose her cycle?

I don’t see how me having a vasectomy destroys the sexual act for my wife any more than get getting a hysterectomy would for me.

 

[The_Bucket]

Because of the intent. A hysterectomy’s intent is to remove cancerous tissue or stem uncontrolled bleeding. The sterilization is an unintended secondary effect. The intent of a vasectomy is to be sterilizing.

An extreme but still relevant analogy would be the case where a pregnant woman finds out she has a life threatening ailment and the treatment will likely result in miscarriage. She gets the treatment and has a miscarriage. In both her case and a direct abortion, an unborn child perishes. But only in the latter case has sin been committed because the death was willed.

 

[Rico_S]

Ahhhh… the wonderful community that is CAF. Telling sinners like it is!!

You are still doing this for sex … Sacrificing your soul.

And what would you do if the sterilization failed and your wife got pregnant again? That happens, too. Would you then tell your wife to murder your child?

Does your wife know this? That you got married so you could have sex? What would you do if she were in an accident that precluded her from having sexual relations? Would you leave her? Find a new wife?

I am glad my husband loves me enough to stay with me regardless of my health issues

Here Jesus, let me put this nail in your hand…I’ll tell you I’m sorry later.

You’re going to sacrifice your soul for sex.

I love this place!! If he doesn’t respond well to truth as it is presented here, then what more can we do?