Miserable medical situation - No good options

  • Thread starter Thread starter FoxFanForty
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FoxFanForty said:
I like how when someone says something you don’t like, you call him a troll and shout for him to be banned. Nice. For the record, I am not anyone else I have not posted before and this situation is 100% real. I wish it were not, really, I do. But I am furious for my wife, who I feel the Church wants to punish for her body falling apart and NO - the surgery would NOT help! We are experts on SPD, trust me. We have seen the best doctors. My wife is much better now - she just would lose all her progress to get pregnant again. The surgery has a low success rate, and if it did work we would still need to avoid pregnancy. It would not “reset” her to have a bunch more kids.
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Who are these “best doctors”! you refer to? What is the “premiere hospital”! you refer to?? What is the “some Catholic institute for OBGYN issues”! that she called and they gave her such astounding medical advice over the telephone. “…and they basically told her the options were to accept a pregnancy and the physical fallout, or abstain until menopause”. Wow! They told her this over the *phone?? *Gee! Unheard of professional protocol!

That sounds crazy.

And now you say Our Church “wants to punish her for her body falling apart?” That’s sounds crazy.

Too much sounds way crazy in what you say and you ignore good advice given. Its sounds exactly like you have an ax to grind, and you are a troll.
 
Eliza10 said:
Who are these “best doctors”! you refer to? What is the “premiere hospital”! you refer to?? What is the “some Catholic institute for OBGYN issues”! that she called and they gave her such astounding medical advice over the telephone. “…and they basically told her the options were to accept a pregnancy and the physical fallout, or abstain until menopause”. Wow! They told her this over the *phone?? *Gee! Unheard of professional protocol!

That sounds crazy.

And now you say Our Church “wants to punish her for her body falling apart?” That’s sounds crazy.

Too much sounds way crazy in what you say and you ignore good advice given. Its sounds exactly like you have an ax to grind, and you are a troll.
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My wife sees the team at Cedars-Sinai in Los Angeles, and we’ve also gotten consults at UCLA Medical Center.
 
I know you are frustrated and many people here are not helping you. Please, listen to me. Go seek the One who is TRUTH. The One who will lead you down the correct path. Go to adoration and open you heart to the Lord. Tell Him all of these burdens that weigh you down. Pour out your frustration and confusion. I promise you, HE is the one you should listen to in your heart. HE will not lead you astray as others who are not on the path to holiness are. Saints lived lives of self-sacrifice. We can learn from them. Read about St. Gianna. She gave her life for her unborn daughter. Most people in this world would not do that.
 
Jabber said:
I know you are frustrated and many people here are not helping you. Please, listen to me. Go seek the One who is TRUTH. The One who will lead you down the correct path. Go to adoration and open you heart to the Lord. Tell Him all of these burdens that weigh you down. Pour out your frustration and confusion. I promise you, HE is the one you should listen to in your heart. HE will not lead you astray as others who are not on the path to holiness are. Saints lived lives of self-sacrifice. We can learn from them. Read about St. Gianna. She gave her life for her unborn daughter. Most people in this world would not do that.
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Go back and read his posts #95 and #98. I think you will see that this new forum member has no intention of following your suggestions and in fact, is here to disparage our Church and our faith.

Those 2 posts gave his game away. Sickening, and I’m on the verge of reporting him.
 
FoxFanForty said:
No. He has been frustrated and angry with us for not doing something reliable about this. He strongly suggested a tubal ligation since our last baby was delivered by Cesarean section. We have stalled. He’s pressing her to make a choice. And yes, she’s a lot better. Can drive a car, walk and does not needto wear Depends diapers or use a wheelchair. There’s still fallout, but she’s busting her butt to recover as much as she can.
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Well, okay. That clarifies things, it doesn’t sound so improbable after all, and an ortho probably would not want to do surgery in that instance. But remember, medical advice is just that: advice. It can be taken, or not. At the same time you seem to have bought into a liberal mindset that ridicules Church teaching and a celibate priesthood. Maybe it’s the stress of what you’ve been going through, but it’s not going to help you. Again, if you undergo a sterilization, at some point you will regret it either in this life or the next. Artificial contraception has been taught infallibly by the Church. I’m not saying you’ll go to hell, but you would at least be adding quite a bit of suffering to purgatory. You might escape a bit of pain here on Earth, but you will add to your suffering without repentance and indulgences. Repentance is a lot harder to do when you’ve entered into a sin willfully and obstinately. When you decide to repent, you will have a lot of tears and regrets. Repentance is not a pain free experience. Any path you take will involve pain, whether you realize it or not. How much pain that is depends upon you.

You have been dealt a lousy hand. Your actions can make it even worse. The Church has taught on sexual matters out of mercy. I didn’t always follow Church teaching, and I regret that horribly. I didn’t just doubt it, I rejected it outright and it only led to more suffering. Despite its difficulty, I have come to see the mercy dispensed by the Church through its teachings in my own life. The only way you will be able to see the mercy that comes from adherence to the truth is by living it. There is no other way. And so while it may seem like the best solution to undergo sterilization or use ABC, once you have taken that fork in the road you will not be able to see what lies on the other fork in the road without turning back and undergoing a difficult journey of repentance.

I wish you well. I don’t think I have anything else I can possibly add to this discussion any more, so I’ll pray for you and your wife and hope it all ends up as God wants it. I apologize for thinking your story improbable.
 
Eliza10 said:
In my opinion, the OP is a TROLL of the* worst *kind - the kind that is here to tear down our beloved Holy Church, and the OP’s other troll name is helplessprilgrim. Yeah, his “cyberspace-Bro”! They have the exact same writing style and the exact same ax to grind, and they both signed up on this forum with their “impossible situations!” stymied by “made-up church rules!” Yes, read what the OP has to say in his posts #95 and #98 and you can see his true colors and true motivations coming through. That’s why he made up this ridiculous impossible story.

This troll put extra effort into his FanFoxForty incarnation, probably having learned from his previous incarnations, and I was duped. Sorry, agapewolf - having now read all the thread (and not just the OP and your post before mine) I now agree with your responses 100%. I just have never known our Church’s true teachings to ever put anyone in such an impossible situation as our OP seemed to be in, so I assumed She could offer a reasonable alternative. She always does, in my experience. So I assumed going to a knowledgeable and pious priest would help somehow, which is why I suggested that. But I missed the truth: the troll came here because he believes our Church is always rigid and unreasonable!

Yes, too, too many things in this thread are suspicious and do not add up. I won’t name them all as I don’t want to give the troll a tutorial for his next incarnation. I come here to read about real people in real situations, since that is what Our Church is for, and I feel I have wasted a lot of valuable time reading stupid troll stuff on this thread. I wish the moderators would find some way to weed this one out for good.

The truth is the rules of our Church are what make us free. That is something the OP just would not ever get. But those of us who live it have come to know its true. We are truly free!
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By the way, you put a typo in the alternate name - it’s helplesspilgrim. You had “helplessprilgrim.”

I have looked at some of that member’s posts, and I can see the correlation. A medical situation with no solution, total dead-end on any alternative treatments - medication can’t be changed, no surgery is possible, but his wife cannot possibly bear a baby with her conditions. And then the poster proceeds to criticize NFP heavily and question the Church and/or the moral aspects of our faith. These posters can do a lot of harm across the forums.

Thanks for pointing this out. I will watch for it in the future.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
By the way, you put a typo in the alternate name - it’s helplesspilgrim. You had “helplessprilgrim.”

I have looked at some of that member’s posts, and I can see the correlation. A medical situation with no solution, total dead-end on any alternative treatments - medication can’t be changed, no surgery is possible, but his wife cannot possibly bear a baby with her conditions. And then the poster proceeds to criticize NFP heavily and question the Church and/or the moral aspects of our faith. These posters can do a lot of harm across the forums.

Thanks for pointing this out. I will watch for it in the future.
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Thanks for pointing out my type. Yes, I have developed a nose for story-tellers. I am glad you can see the correlation between this one and helplesspilgrim. Not only the same story (coming on with no hesitation and launching right into the wife’s impossible medical condition) and the wife is talked about in the same manner, rejection of decent advice, and the blame is on the Church and her moral teaching, and very similar use of language and sentence structure.

Yes, these posters do a lot of harm to our forums. But being the biggest Catholic forum, we are a target.
 
Yes, please do. I think your assessment of the situation is quite correct
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TheRealJuliane:
Quote:

Go back and read his posts #95 and #98. I think you will see that this new forum member has no intention of following your suggestions and in fact, is here to disparage our Church and our faith.

Those 2 posts gave his game away. Sickening, and I’m on the verge of reporting him.
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Eliza10 said:
Thanks for pointing out my type. Yes, I have developed a nose for story-tellers. I am glad you can see the correlation between this one and helplesspilgrim. Not only the same story (coming on with no hesitation and launching right into the wife’s impossible medical condition) and the wife is talked about in the same manner, rejection of decent advice, and the blame is on the Church and her moral teaching, and very similar use of language and sentence structure.

Yes, these posters do a lot of harm to our forums. But being the biggest Catholic forum, we are a target.
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How am I harming anyone? People are free to read my posts or not, reject tem, think I’m crazy, stupid, a sinner, Hell bound… Do you only want posters here who happily march in lockstep with the Church, or who take your advice as though it’s coming from God himself? I am not saying anyone should agree with me, or act like me, I’m just saying how I feel and what I think. Are you afraid someone will find value or truth in what I say? Are you afraid that my situation and others like it bring to light a flaw in church teaching?
 
FoxFanForty said:
People are free to read my posts or not, reject tem, think I’m crazy, stupid, a sinner, Hell bound… Do you only want posters here who happily march in lockstep with the Church, or who take your advice as though it’s coming from God himself? I am not saying anyone should agree with me, or act like me, I’m just saying how I feel and what I think. Are you afraid someone will find value or truth in what I say? Are you afraid that my situation and others like it bring to light a flaw in church teaching?
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Okay dude, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but this post screams Catholic-hater. I think you made the whole thing up. Part of my employment involves detecting fraud, and you’ve got all of my radars going now.
 
No one who is even remotely close to agnostic would follow NFP unless his/her spouse absolutely insisted. No one.

And for the record, yes, we do want people who will “march in lockstep with the Church” because the Church teaches truth. We are all human beings and so we are imperfect. We slip, slide, fall down and sometimes outright reject God. All of us. No one is better than the other because God loves us all equally.

That said, go over the Epistle for tomorrow’s Mass. When one member of the Church is sick, all suffer. When one is honored, we are all honored. We have a responsibility to minister to one another because we are all one in the Mystical Body of Christ.

There’s a major difference between saying “the Church is wrong” and committing sin. Even grievous sin. I look at my own life and see plenty of grievous sins. Ones that damaged my family greatly. I rationalized my behavior constantly but deep down I knew I was the one in the wrong. Not the Church and not anyone else. It was me. After all, I’d tell other people that the things I was doing were immoral and to not do them. Then I’d keep doing it!

But what’s going on here is you’re either trolling or have just decided that you’re right, the Church is wrong and that is that. Well whatever. You’re free to make that decision. But why the heck bother being Catholic if you’re not going to at least try and follow her doctrine? That’s something I’ve never understood. If you think ABC is OK or abortion is OK or the Eucharist isn’t really Jesus or that you don’t need to confess your sins to a priest… why are you Catholic? Go pick another religion. At least then you’ll be trying to follow a doctrine you believe.
 
FoxFanForty said:
My wife sees the team at Cedars-Sinai in Los Angeles, and we’ve also gotten consults at UCLA Medical Center.
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You don’t have to give out medical info.

Trolling: People should not be calling you a troll just because you are frustrated and angry.

On many boards - a very large one on which I am a moderator for instance - someone who calls another a troll in a thread can be put on “limited access” for a while to cool them down. It is actually very bad internet etiquette to call someone a troll - unless they obviously are, I don’t see that here at all.

Moving on - There are no easy answers.

Obviously people can live lives of continence, but celibacy for priests and religious is a charism. It is not easy, and people fail, not because they don’t love God enough (as someone stated above), but maybe because it isn’t their vocation.

When you marry and are open to life as you have been you don’t expect to be hit over the head with the continence vs sterilization option.

Obviously you are angry and probably scared. I would be.

There are no easy answers. You will have to do what you and your wife can live with in terms of your conscience.

I’m not sure that for many married folk on here the answer would be totally black and white.

I’ll pray for you and your wife.
 
Look, if I was you I would ignore all previous advice.
You can’t live in a celibate marriage for 20 years. It’s unfair to both of you. Get sterilised, it’s the best thing to do. I understand this is a hard decision, but you can’t not do it just because a spiritual deity which may or may not exist dictates that you shouldnt.
 
For those criticizing the OP for the sin of presumption, you don’t know how he will feel afterward. I lived this. My husband had a vasectomy that I encouraged him to have. I figured “we’ll go to confession after”. Well, afterward, we did go to confession and I did confess that sin, but I also confessed my presumption because I honestly did feel terrible that I did that. I was remorseful for that sin.

We cannot know that this OP won’t be either.

To the OP, talk to your parish priest and pray about it. Don’t listen to strangers on the internet.
 
FoxFanForty said:
Are you afraid that my situation and others like it bring to light a flaw in church teaching?
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No, your situation brings to light the fact that we are fallen and sometimes refuse to do the right thing.

Just because a moral teaching is hard, that does not mean it’s wrong. It means it’s hard.
 
PaulinVA said:
No, your situation brings to light the fact that we are fallen and sometimes refuse to do the right thing.

Just because a moral teaching is hard, that does not mean it’s wrong. It means it’s hard.
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We’re only bitter against the laws that we want to break.
 
PaulinVA said:
No, your situation brings to light the fact that we are fallen and sometimes refuse to do the right thing.

Just because a moral teaching is hard, that does not mean it’s wrong. It means it’s hard.
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Word.
 
What I am trying to figure is:

Is FoxFanForty, MushroomMan, helplesspilgrim, and hansiepansie all the same person?

🍿
 
Please Dear God our Heavenly Father, The Holy Spirit, Dear Jesus Christ our Saviour and Dear Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus, could you please Jesus HEAL this beautiful Wife and Mother of her conditions and totally eliminate Satan attempting to ruin their most Christian Holy Marriage and Family Life now and for Eternity, Amen.

Our Father who Art in Heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name, Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven, Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us, and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from all evil, Amen.
  • Try 1 tablespoon of Cod liver oil in 1 glass of skim milk per day to strengthen joints and bones
  • the Neways Products, (Revenol and Feroxin - proven for every condition strengthening and building up the immune system however expensive),
  • Praying The Holy Rosary together twice a day asking Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus for Jesus and Our Lady Mary’s blessings to try a good old fashioned diaghragm while you use (what is the term)? withdrawal? until your wife is strong and healthy through daily prayer for her cause and world peace.
  • Plenty of tap water for minerals to strengthen your Wife’s bones and muscle system (6 glasses per day)
Kindest wishes to Mum, Dad and Children
 
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