Miserable with NFP!

[agapewolf]

Quinalt,

It is NOT a low view of marriage. It is the HIGHEST view of marriage. the whole point of marriage is for the spouses to get each other to heaven and have children.

You said:

***Which is the graver sin;

Divorcing because the lack of sex causes too many problems

Using a condom in addition to NFP so that you can have sex more than twice a month and still beign Catholic

Leaving the Catholic church because there is no support and no help.***

Marriage does NOT EVER trump eternal life. The point for it is to get eternal life. If one is losing his soul by committing mortal sin (and this is the scenario you painted), and divorce is the only way to save one’s soul, then it must be done.

Read Theology of the Body.

 

[Good_Daughter]

Now I know I’m going to get a lot of heat for this post but I had to share my feelings and ask how you all cope with this NFP lifestyle? We’re not coping well and my wife wants to be done with NFP for good. With our experience, I agree with her most of the time. I’m a Catholic who is anti-abortion, pro-life, prayerful, watch EWTN constantly, try to follow the Church and relish in the sacraments. But this teaching is truly taxing us hard.

For nearly a decade my husband and I coped poorly with the NFP lifestyle and were also taxed hard trying to follow the Church’s teachings on marital sex. I finally gave up and decided to find a non-abortive method of contraception. In making that decision though, I became frustrated. Every form of ABC is either intrusive, unhealthy, or mutilates a healthy human body. (ie. Why, in order to experience sexual intimacy, did one of us have to wear a cumbersome piece of latex and kill healthy, useful sperm cells? Just the thought is unromantic as heck.)

In my disgust with both NFP and ABC, I started to ponder how we are designed as humans. I realized that most of the time I can’t get pregnant, so why would we mount such a strong offense (be it chemical, latex or surgical) against a non-existant enemy? Eventually I started to see our combined fertility not as an enemy but a gift to be used very carefully. No less a gift is my non-fertility. I became highly motivated to learn everything I could about my own cycle, switched NFP methods and gained much more confidence.

Bottom line, knowing and appreciating the amazing design (and Designer) of human fertility helps me cope much better now with the conservative NFP my husband and I use. Feel free to PM me if you’d like to talk about the NFP resources that I’ve found especially helpful.

 

[Quinault]

If I am to understand correctly; it is BETTER for a couple that deeply love each other to divorce rather than use a condom or something similar several times a month? I see divorce as a very serious offense in scripture. I am not a sola scriptura person myself. But it seems that if it was important enough to be included in both the NT and OT it is important today. But I don’t see anywhere that says that using a barrier or other non abortive contraceptive several times a month is a sin punishable of damnation. Is our hold on salvation that tenuous? Can we really lose our salvation by using a condom on occasion or having a tubla ligation or vascetomy?

I guess that is why I am not and never will be Roman Catholic. I just can’t see how the Lord would rather see divorce than occasional contraception. If you take that argument to it’s fullest then all sex must be procreative and as such infertile couple would be in sin. But to each their own…I just don’t/can’t get it. I grew up with divorved parents. That is a sin that affects everyone in the family. And divorce rather than occasion BC just doesn’t make sense.

 

[kittery]

EM in FL,

You would be doing those like us who struggle with NFP a great service. The struggle that I’ve had and others here at CAF have had with NFP is not only taxing to our marriages, but isolating. Until I found this board, I had no outlet for all of the frightening feelings I was having about this issue. I was actually terrified for a while that our marriage would not be able to weather this in the long-term, and I still see it as doing us more harm than good.

For us, NFP has highlighted so many of the negatives in our relationship. It puts pressure on one spouse or the other to satisfy each other during the infertile times, which detracts from the intimacy of sex. It also created a lot of insecurity in me as my husband would stuff his desires down so that we wouldn’t get caught up into sin which left me feeling undesirable, neglected, and lonely. I truly believe that ongoing support/education could make a difference. You sound like you have the passion to run with something like this, and I think it would be awesome if you would.

I know that from my point of view, I would love my husband to understand how to foster closeness and intimacy outside of sex for the fertile times. This could be reinforced in post-marriage NFP education/support. A ton of support is needed for couples who grapple with difficult/unpredictable cycles. It’s a scary place for couples who have health reasons for avoiding, and so special care/attention needs to be given to people like this. If the church wants to be pro-NFP, then BE pro-NFP and promote it, implement it, and reinforce it.

The benefit of NFP classes pre-cana is that the woman can learn her cycles and begin to understand how it all works. All of that worked fine for us. But practicing NFP inside of real-life marriage is just sooooo different than it looks on paper and that’s where you could begin to really dig in and apply the theology and grow your marriage, spiritually and sexually. For this, I think that some form of ongoing support is warranted, and should be provided by the church.

 

[TIME]

Kittery, Have your sleeping arrangements changed yet, with Hubby?

 

[ronnette]

Do you recognise that your tubal was wrong and sinful and a heinous offence to God who gave you your body for HIS purposes rather than for your own?

…Do you recognize how utterly self-righteous and judgmental you sound?

 

[ronnette]

Nonsense. You reduce man to an animal entirely unable to channel his urges and desires… I DO at least take responsibility for my failures and not pawn them off…the scapegoat is too convenient.

I am so utterly sick of hearing judgmentalism heaped on this person, it isn’t even funny. Must be great to know it all, huh?

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

…Do you recognize how utterly self-righteous and judgmental you sound?

**
Following God is not easy. Often I know I am doing the right thing because** it is hard. The comment you are referring to is simply stating a fact. A fact that as Catholics we are required to believe. It is not a personal attack or personal judgement. It’s no different that saying:

Do you recognize that your drug abuse/suicide attempt/body mutilation was wrong and sinful and a heinous offense to God who gave you your body for HIS purposes rather than for your own?

 

[StratusRose]

Following God is not easy. Often I know I am doing the right thing because it is hard. The comment you are referring to is simply stating a fact. A fact that as Catholics we are required to believe. It is not a personal attack or personal judgement. It’s no different that saying:

Do you recognize that your drug abuse/suicide attempt/body mutilation was wrong and sinful and a heinous offense to God who gave you your body for HIS purposes rather than for your own?

THANK YOU!

 

[texaspanda]

If I am to understand correctly; it is BETTER for a couple that deeply love each other to divorce rather than use a condom or something similar several times a month? I see divorce as a very serious offense in scripture. I am not a sola scriptura person myself. But it seems that if it was important enough to be included in both the NT and OT it is important today. But I don’t see anywhere that says that using a barrier or other non abortive contraceptive several times a month is a sin punishable of damnation. Is our hold on salvation that tenuous? Can we really lose our salvation by using a condom on occasion or having a tubla ligation or vascetomy?

I guess that is why I am not and never will be Roman Catholic. I just can’t see how the Lord would rather see divorce than occasional contraception. If you take that argument to it’s fullest then all sex must be procreative and as such infertile couple would be in sin. But to each their own…I just don’t/can’t get it. I grew up with divorved parents. That is a sin that affects everyone in the family. And divorce rather than occasion BC just doesn’t make sense.

It is my understanding that even with an annulment granted for divorce there is no reconciliation at all whatsoever for divorce as it is meant to be for life by the words of Christ. Why would you choose divorce of a spouse that you love? That argument is ludicrous.

 

[newbetx]

I think Kittery is right. More proactive measures by the Church would be good. But how many times has a spouse declined the invitations to Marriage Encounters, and other retreats that is exactly that? Much of what we face in “the real world” is coming from things other than Church teaching. This makes accepting of the Church information difficult in a world that is counter to it. And I understand completely the fear many have when they thought they were OK, and are now pregnant. It’s a confidence thing.

And we need to understand (or remember, for us converts) the world today sees “on demand sex without consequence” as a BIRTHRIGHT. As long as anyone feels that way, no amount of damnation, lecture or name calling will change them. All we can do is pray and suggest that they seek to understand. Hopefully, they can give up the selfish nature and begin to enjoy the selfless ness of true love as God intended it.

 

[agapewolf]

. But I don’t see anywhere that says that using a barrier or other non abortive contraceptive several times a month is a sin punishable of damnation. Is our hold on salvation that tenuous? Can we really lose our salvation by using a condom on occasion or having a tubla ligation or vascetomy?

I guess that is why I am not and never will be Roman Catholic. I just can’t see how the Lord would rather see divorce than occasional contraception. If you take that argument to it’s fullest then all sex must be procreative and as such infertile couple would be in sin. But to each their own…I just don’t/can’t get it. I grew up with divorved parents. That is a sin that affects everyone in the family. And divorce rather than occasion BC just doesn’t make sense.

Yes, it is in the catechism. The catechism wasn’t just arbitrarily “made up” to push hardship on people. It’s not “just a barrier a couple of times”. You only have to pull the trigger once to kill someone and its a mortal sin. Contraception is a very serious sin, that has been skewed by our society. It has drastic consequences on society. It’s very difficult to see how bad it is becuase it is so subtle and the devil works very slowly. I work at a church, and although I am not an official counselor, many people come to me pooring their gut-wrenching stories about the marriage falling apart…do you know what the culprit is? Contraception. Sometimes we can see it immediately, sometimes it takes awhile, but it comes down to the selfishness that contraception promotes. And here’s the kicker…CONTRACEPTION DOES NOT WORK! It isn’t even an option because it doesn’t work.

As I said, read theology of the body. You will get it.

 

[kittery]

I think Kittery is right. More proactive measures by the Church would be good. But how many times has a spouse declined the invitations to Marriage Encounters, and other retreats that is exactly that?

To me, Marriage Encounters are a wonderful thing, but costly and generally take a whole weekend of time away from the kids. That doesn’t fit into everyone’s lifestyle. Plus, a Marriage Encounter is just that- an encounter. It’s kind of an isolated occurence that happens once a year at best, much farther and fewer between than that usually.

I’m talking about focused NFP support. Even if it’s a group that met once a month, but had someone that the church provided that could counsel couples as needed, by appointment. This way, the NFP teacher would be Catholic and hopefully better equipped to understand the spiritual as well as their physical needs.

 

[JudieK]

For everyone who faithfully carries out NFP and lives their marital lives in complete compliance with Church teaching, God bless all of you. I truly admire you. I believe you will all be saints someday and will be rewarded greatly in heaven. I truly mean this- I am not being sarcastic, so please, take it as given.

Now, for the rest of us. Yes, me. I love my three children. But I have always felt at odds with motherhood and that I never did it “right.” Each baby pushed me closer to the edge of sanity. After my last one, in a haze of post-partum delirium/ exhaustion/ depression, I said “No more. Please.” My husband, who was as exhausted and burned out as I, agreed, and happily went off to get a vasectomy.

When the haze lifted, I felt very bad about it. I knew it was the wrong thing to do, but there was also a part of me that sighed in relief. I am human. Anyway, I did feel remorse and I ran to confession. My husband eventually did as well.

I don’t advocate this- please- don’t jump all over me. But I don’t think I would have been able to live the life you all describe. It is heroic and admirable- but I am sure I would have failed miserably at it, and my marriage would have been in jeopardy.

I love the Church and serve it in many ways. I give time, treasure, and talent in abundance. But from what I sense here, it may all be for naught- I may have lost my soul with the unforgiveable sin.
I do not scandalize the church by telling others to “go ahead and use birth control,” etc. I just have to trust in the mercy of God here. No one is perfect- that’s why we have confession. If we fall short in this area, does that discount us forever? I admit that I have sinned. I think God understands that we fail at certain things. That is why I say I admire all of you who have remained faithful to this. I could not. And if it was a matter of life and death, I’m sure I could not. I would just throw myself at God’s mercy. I hope we can all pray for each other.

 

[ronnette]

**
Following God is not easy. Often I know I am doing the right thing because** it is hard. The comment you are referring to is simply stating a fact. A fact that as Catholics we are required to believe. It is not a personal attack or personal judgement. It’s no different that saying:

Do you recognize that your drug abuse/suicide attempt/body mutilation was wrong and sinful and a heinous offense to God who gave you your body for HIS purposes rather than for your own?

Please don’t refer to psychiatric illnesses as “wrong and singful and a heinous offense to God”, because it is incredibly cruel and lacking in even the most basic medical understanding.

If we no longer think epileptics are possessed, let’s extend the same enlightenment toward the mentally ill. Kthx.

If traditionalists like you are so deeply concerned with being “charitable” and not causing “scandal” with your words, you might want to consider the stuff you post to threads like this. Because it causes all kinds of grief and rage, pours shakers full of salt into others’ wounds, and just generally does nothing but increase the risk of driving the wounded even further away from the Church.

Trust me on this one. A time for everything, and all that.

 

[ronnette]

Yes, it is in the catechism. The catechism wasn’t just arbitrarily “made up” to push hardship on people. It’s not “just a barrier a couple of times”. You only have to pull the trigger once to kill someone and its a mortal sin. Contraception is a very serious sin, that has been skewed by our society. It has drastic consequences on society. It’s very difficult to see how bad it is becuase it is so subtle and the devil works very slowly. I work at a church, and although I am not an official counselor, many people come to me pooring their gut-wrenching stories about the marriage falling apart…do you know what the culprit is? Contraception. Sometimes we can see it immediately, sometimes it takes awhile, but it comes down to the selfishness that contraception promotes. And here’s the kicker…CONTRACEPTION DOES NOT WORK! It isn’t even an option because it doesn’t work.

As I said, read theology of the body. You will get it.

…What if I’ve already spent a long, hard time poring over JPII’s “Theology of the Body”, and still cannot help reaching the conclusion that the Eastern Orthodox position on the subject is the correct one?

 

[darthsmozers]

For nearly a decade my husband and I coped poorly with the NFP lifestyle and were also taxed hard trying to follow the Church’s teachings on marital sex. I finally gave up and decided to find a non-abortive method of contraception. In making that decision though, I became frustrated. Every form of ABC is either intrusive, unhealthy, or mutilates a healthy human body. (ie. Why, in order to experience sexual intimacy, did one of us have to wear a cumbersome piece of latex and kill healthy, useful sperm cells? Just the thought is unromantic as heck.)

In my disgust with both NFP and ABC, I started to ponder how we are designed as humans. I realized that most of the time I can’t get pregnant, so why would we mount such a strong offense (be it chemical, latex or surgical) against a non-existant enemy? Eventually I started to see our combined fertility not as an enemy but a gift to be used very carefully. No less a gift is my non-fertility. I became highly motivated to learn everything I could about my own cycle, switched NFP methods and gained much more confidence.

Bottom line, knowing and appreciating the amazing design (and Designer) of human fertility helps me cope much better now with the conservative NFP my husband and I use. Feel free to PM me if you’d like to talk about the NFP resources that I’ve found especially helpful.

LOVE IT!!!

 

[newbetx]

…What if I’ve already spent a long, hard time poring over JPII’s “Theology of the Body”, and still cannot help reaching the conclusion that the Eastern Orthodox position on the subject is the correct one?

As stated before. Sometimes it needs to be explained. Reading the Bible is not in itself enough. One must understand what is behind what is stated for clearer understanding. It requires explaining. I’ve not read JPII’s version. I read Christopher West’s. I found that helpful. If CW can convince me to REVERSE my thoughts on the subject, maybe that would work for you. Maybe you already read his books. I don’t know. It requires eventual acceptance that you might be wrong in your view. That is a tough thing to do and you may not be ready for that. But as CW states up front. Accept it all or none of it. I was seeking to understand. So it worked for me. The biggest thing also I got from CW was “the Church is patient.” And so all of us should be.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Please don’t refer to psychiatric illnesses as “wrong and singful and a heinous offense to God”, because it is incredibly cruel and lacking in even the most basic medical understanding.

If we no longer think epileptics are possessed, let’s extend the same enlightenment toward the mentally ill. Kthx.

If traditionalists like you are so deeply concerned with being “charitable” and not causing “scandal” with your words, you might want to consider the stuff you post to threads like this. Because it causes all kinds of grief and rage, pours shakers full of salt into others’ wounds, and just generally does nothing but increase the risk of driving the wounded even further away from the Church.

Trust me on this one. A time for everything, and all that.

**Don’t assume I know nothing about mental illness. I was using those examples because once “healed” a person who has abused drugs or attempted suicide or mutilated their body in some way (from mental illness or not) is usually very repentant IF they believe in God.

I would never want to drive anyone away from the Church with my words or actions. I am sorry if they came across that way.

And I am not a traditionalist. I am a Catholic.

malia
**

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I wonder if Orthodox Jews complain about their periods of abstaining from marital relations? Of course they have a whole different situation there.
You know, Mother Teresa used to promote NFP to folks who were illiterate & had pretty good results.
In our Western culture we seem so obsessed with control in every aspect of our lives. Sometimes we edge God right out of the picture.
Life is short. No matter how hard we try, we’ll never be in control of everything. We can try to be good stewards, prudent parents, loving spouses but in the end, the Lord can upset the whole cart & it can end up being a blessing.
Do we really trust Him & the Church He founded? If we follow Catholic teachings will we be blessed? I think so, but those blessings may not always fit into our micro-managed way of thinking.