Miserable with NFP!

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

**I just wanted to expound on my earlier post.

The more I think about it, the more I think comparing the tubal to drug abuse etc to be valid.

The poster had a tubal without understanding that it was wrong. She had limited culpability. Same with someone who has a mental illness or addiction. They have limited culpability for their actions as well. But that does not mean that they should never be sorry for the damage they did to themselves or others when they finally do know better…

There are things that I have done in my life (some that are sins and some that just weren’t nice) that I had no idea that were wrong at the time (either from having no religious upbringing or from forms of mental illness) that, once I realized just how much I offended God, I became very remorseful over.

It is that consciousness of offending our Creator that makes up a big part of being Catholic. And our ability to ask for and receive forgiveness. Humility.

Malia
**

 

[3GirlsRUs]

I wonder if Orthodox Jews complain about their periods of abstaining from marital relations? Of course they have a whole different situation there.
You know, Mother Teresa used to promote NFP to folks who were illiterate & had pretty good results.
In our Western culture we seem so obsessed with control in every aspect of our lives. Sometimes we edge God right out of the picture.
Life is short. No matter how hard we try, we’ll never be in control of everything. We can try to be good stewards, prudent parents, loving spouses but in the end, the Lord can upset the whole cart & it can end up being a blessing.
Do we really trust Him & the Church He founded? If we follow Catholic teachings will we be blessed? I think so, but those blessings may not always fit into our micro-managed way of thinking.

I agree with this. I was just discussing with my sister last night how, today…in our culture…we all want to be in control over everything. My focus over this past year has really been to try and consider what God wants of me and for me in each situation…I fail many times because I want to be “in control” but I often find I am more accepting of my plight in the end knowing that I am NOT in control and that God is. Anyway…wanted to chime in with that.

Also, Malia, I like your analogy…it is very fitting for many situations today…not just this one!

 

[Convert_in_99]

:byzsoc:
This is the saddest thing I have ever seen or heard. This is such a low view of marriage that I feel like crying.:byzsoc: Lord have mercy indeed!

**I don’t think it’s the saddest I’ve heard…but you’re right. It IS sad.

What on earth would divorce do in a situation like this? Nothing! If the couple is struggling with frequency of intimacy, going single and celibate sure isn’t going to fix the problem. And what would you tell the kids when they grew up…“I divorced your mom because I couldn’t control myself?” What on earth kind of message would that give to the kids? “Hey son, its okay to leave your future wife and only see your kids every other weekend if the sex turns out less than satisfactory.”

Something is very wrong here. If we divorce over sex, or lack there of. If our children’s lives and homes are shattered because the sex “wasn’t that good” or “wasn’t frequent enough.” That is truly a reason to be sad and cry. I certainly agree with you!
**

 

[TIME]

Convert, I know you know these statements, for others too.

At the Divine Level, Marriage is a gift from our Lord, one of many things that separate us from the other mammals on the planet. This is a truth, no matter what the morons say in the commercial media.

The Church made Holy Matrimony a Sacrament continuing to make Marriage a Sacred gift from God. Human Sexuality is also part of that sacred gift from God, as a major part of Marriage. I often ask myself, “Is the day to day sacrifices, work and even sexual relationship” “something I have to do” or is it “something I get to do” as part of this Blessed Marriage.

At the human level, marriage is a man and a women coming together to give of themselves. When one spouse consistently and repeatedly chooses not to give of themselves, that is the person who owns the unraveling and destruction of the marriage. That is the person were any apologies should start from.

Imagine if a husband said, I don’t want to give of myself to you, today and go to work to earn a living, because I have a headache, I have cramps, I am to tired, I am to stressed or some other reason.

Imagine if a husband said, I don’t want to give of myself to you, today and take you out to get something to eat on Fri. or Sat. night, because I have a headache, I have cramps, I am to tiered, I am to stressed or some other reason.

You always see women with husbands in tow, shopping in the ladies or children’s stores/Dept’s. Imagine if a husband said, I don’t want to give of myself to you, today and go shopping with you, because etc. etc…

The list could go on forever. A man, husband, father gets up every day without complaining, about sleep, ailments or their feeeeeeeeelings and does things almost automatically. If we want to be married then we have to make that a priority and don’t just give your marriage the left over time from the day. Yet there are exceptions too, like school or being out of town on business, etc.

The bible a trusted source. The Church upholds St. Paul’s teaching regarding conjugal chastity:

1 Corinthians 7: 4-5

4 A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife.

5 Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Convert, I know you know these statements, for others too.

At the Divine Level, Marriage is a gift from our Lord, one of many things that separate us from the other mammals on the planet. This is a truth, no matter what the morons say in the commercial media.

The Church made Holy Matrimony a Sacrament continuing to make Marriage a Sacred gift from God. Human Sexuality is also part of that sacred gift from God, as a major part of Marriage. I often ask myself, “Is the day to day sacrifices, work and even sexual relationship” “something I have to do” or is it “something I get to do” as part of this Blessed Marriage.

At the human level, marriage is a man and a women coming together to give of themselves. When one spouse consistently and repeatedly chooses not to give of themselves, that is the person who owns the unraveling and destruction of the marriage. That is the person were any apologies should start from.

Imagine if a husband said, I don’t want to give of myself to you, today and go to work to earn a living, because I have a headache, I have cramps, I am to tired, I am to stressed or some other reason.

Imagine if a husband said, I don’t want to give of myself to you, today and take you out to get something to eat on Fri. or Sat. night, because I have a headache, I have cramps, I am to tiered, I am to stressed or some other reason.

You always see women with husbands in tow, shopping in the ladies or children’s stores/Dept’s. Imagine if a husband said, I don’t want to give of myself to you, today and go shopping with you, because etc. etc…

The list could go on forever. A man, husband, father gets up every day without complaining, about sleep, ailments or their feeeeeeeeelings and does things almost automatically. If we want to be married then we have to make that a priority and don’t just give your marriage the left over time from the day. Yet there are exceptions too, like school or being out of town on business, etc.

The bible a trusted source. The Church upholds St. Paul’s teaching regarding conjugal chastity:

1 Corinthians 7: 4-5

4 A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife.

5 Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control.

Exactly. Depriving a spouse isn’t right either. But should divorce result from this, especially if it isn’t a total deprivation? **Should they then proceed to get a divorce and marry anew solely for a better sex life? What if that marriage doesn’t work out for the same or similar reasons. Should they then proceed to spouse number three? At what point is it too much?

That’s all I am going with here. I do believe it is necessary to separate at times, in particular situations. But the spouses should do everything possible (counseling, therapy, prayer, personal conversion, etc.) to get back together (just like that scripture verse says) not sever the marriage entirely, save for the gravest of reasons (abuse, repeated infidelity, etc.)

Is this what you think too?
**

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I hate shopping, too by the way, but that’s not quite on the same level of giving of self as sex. At least for women, maybe.
But I hear you as far as “feeeeeeelings.”
It’s not easy or well appreciated to go to work every day, pay bills, provide food & shelter & put your “feelings” on hold because you are responsible for others. I do hear alot more complaining from women about their “feelings” being hurt or their husbands being insensitive, etc.
Your giving of self can be as simple as going to a difficult job each day without complaint,which is what many men & women do week after week to provide for their loved ones. Actions do speak louder than words, (or feelings.)

 

[agapewolf]

Convert and others,

There was an argument made earlier that I was refuting. It was an option that using birth control was better than “divorcing becasue lack of sex causes too many problems”.

My argument is that marriage is for the purpose of getting the spouses to heaven…but if one commits serious sin by using ABC, then its not going to do that.

People are now taking the argument example to serious extremes that it was never meant to go. I was simply refuting the argument that yes…using a barrier method a few times a month IS SERIOUS and can cause serious damage, although some here are trying to say “eh…whats the harm?” If we are going to take this to such extremes, than my point would be that it would be a tragedy for a divorce to come from “lack of sex”.

This also backs up the idea that Marriage is indeed viewed very highly by the church. It is a means of sanctification. If it causes one to lose one’s soul than it isn’t working right.

Please read all the past posts that lead up to this point.

 

[TIME]

What Convert said. Divorce - “The gravest of reasons”

Although, I have heard many young Mom’s over the years, say they wanted a divorce and a new husband, if their guys cut them off and did not take them out on the weekend or otherwise take the Mom’s away from the house and pressure cooker of raising several little ones. It is just part of giving of yourself and showing your sweetie how special they are to you.

I guess the care and feeding of wives(and husbands) is part of God’s plan, as he gave us His, Son.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Convert and others,

There was an argument made earlier that I was refuting. It was an option that using birth control was better than “divorcing becasue lack of sex causes too many problems”.

My argument is that marriage is for the purpose of getting the spouses to heaven…but if one commits serious sin by using ABC, then its not going to do that.

People are now taking the argument example to serious extremes that it was never meant to go. I was simply refuting the argument that yes…using a barrier method a few times a month IS SERIOUS and can cause serious damage, although some here are trying to say “eh…whats the harm?” If we are going to take this to such extremes, than my point would be that it would be a tragedy for a divorce to come from “lack of sex”.

This also backs up the idea that Marriage is indeed viewed very highly by the church. It is a means of sanctification. If it causes one to lose one’s soul than it isn’t working right.

Please read all the past posts that lead up to this point.

Sorry if it appeared to be taken out of context. I didn’t mean to upset you. We really do see eye to eye here. The sacredness of married love, and the evils of divorce (or anything else that comes between that sacredness…birth control, pornography, adultery, masturbation, etc.)

**Agreed. ABC or barrier method contraception “just a few days a month” is just as gravely immoral as divorce…if not more so (as it involves the lives of not just two…but three–or more–persons!)

Also…if your marriage is so shaky that it is causing you to sin…and I mean that the MARRIAGE is shaky…not just one’s self control/self mastery (which can just as easily be the cause)…then the marriage needs some serious work. You have a grave obligation to try to work it out, and bring it back to a source of love, joy, peace, happiness, and salvation for both!

**

 

[TIME]

I hate shopping, too by the way, but that’s not quite on the same level of giving of self as sex. At least for women, maybe.
But I hear you as far as “feeeeeeelings.”
It’s not easy or well appreciated to go to work every day, pay bills, provide food & shelter & put your “feelings” on hold because you are responsible for others. I do hear alot more complaining from women about their “feelings” being hurt or their husbands being insensitive, etc.
Your giving of self can be as simple as going to a difficult job each day without complaint,which is what many men & women do week after week to provide for their loved ones. Actions do speak louder than words, (or feelings.)

My wife hates shopping too, but when she asks me to “do it” or I sense, that I need to volunteer to go shopping, I do everything in my power NOT to make it seem like a chore, just another blissful chance to spend time with her.

As for “not quite on the same level of giving of self as sex.” very true, but it is not near the same result either. At least for women, maybe. Even, if do say so, myself

 

[Milkandhoney]

I haven’t had time to read through all these interesting postings on this subject and I’m not sure when I’ll be able to. I am a newly joined member of this website and I’ve been going through different threads when I have the time and stopping at headings that look interesting. That being said, the reason this heading intrigued me is because I never used NFP in my married life and I’ve regretted the fact that I didn’t. I wish I had the spirituality I do now at the beginning of my marriage. I would have loved to have raised my children in a whole different way then I ended up doing. I suppose I was/am the typical Catholic sitting in the pew that is of the baby boom generation.
I grew up as a Catholic although I never went to Catholic school and my formal Catholic education ended when I made my Confirmation in the 5th grade. So… really I had a 5th grade education as far as my faith was concerned.
It sufficed for close to 40 years. I was comfortable with doing what I felt like doing, living a faith that was more self made then it was Church based. I only recently have begun UNDERSTANDING ‘the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist’ and have recently begun to understand the teaching behind JPII Theology of the Body.
Which brings meto the birth control issue. I have been married for 28 years and have a beautiful, happy marriage. My husband and I have 3 grown children. When my youngest was only 6 months old, my husband had a vasectomy because he felt that he couldn’t handle more children. Financially or emotionally. We had always used ABC so the idea of a vasectomy was never something we thought of as offensive.
It came as a surprise to me when the emotional impact of what we did as a couple began to sink in. I cried when I realized that my daughter would be the last child I would bring into the world. We had put an end to our fertility as a couple.
There is a emptiness in making love without the possibility of creating life that I didn’t understand or feel until we were infertile. There were times I cried silently afterwards because although the physical experience and love was there, there was something that was missing, something that was taken away.
As years passed and we matured as a couple, we came to regret the decision we made when we were in our 30’s. We regret having put our trust in our own abilities rather then putting our trust in what God had in store for us as a married couple.
My advice as a person who has used ABC is to not abandon your practicing NFP. Find other ways as a couple to express your closeness on the days you are fertile, cuddle and kiss and count the days to your ‘safe’ time. Plan for those days and use them to the fullest. On the times when you absolutely can’t hold back your passion for one another, leave the fruitfulness up to God, you’ll know the time the day and the love that went into creating the new life if life is created out of that night of passion.
I will pray for you and your spouse.

 

[Convert_in_99]

There is a emptiness in making love without the possibility of creating life that I didn’t understand or feel until we were infertile. There were times I cried silently afterwards because although the physical experience and love was there, there was something that was missing, something that was taken away.

**I know this feeling all to well. :console: It DOES hurt. While your body and heart are in it, and you love each other probably more now than ever before, you really do feel the sensation of loss or incompleteness.

We are infertile too. We don’t have children. We canNOT have children. We weren’t sterilized, we ARE sterile, naturally. While God can and does work miracles in the most unlikely of circumstances, it doesn’t mean we’ll be one of the lucky ones. Though we hope against hope we are.

I certainly know how you feel. Offer to God the pains associated with this in atonement for your sin against life (your sterilization.) I offer mine for those who can get pregnant but don’t want too (those considering abortion, those considering/using sterilization and birth control, those refusing to welcome another life into their family.)

I know this won’t take away the pain entirely, but it can and does help to put all things into perspective.

**

 

[TIME]

Convert, All His Grace and All My Prayers to your Blessed Family.

 

[Joya]

I haven’t had time to read through all these interesting postings on this subject and I’m not sure when I’ll be able to. I am a newly joined member of this website and I’ve been going through different threads when I have the time and stopping at headings that look interesting. That being said, the reason this heading intrigued me is because I never used NFP in my married life and I’ve regretted the fact that I didn’t. I wish I had the spirituality I do now at the beginning of my marriage. I would have loved to have raised my children in a whole different way then I ended up doing. I suppose I was/am the typical Catholic sitting in the pew that is of the baby boom generation.
I grew up as a Catholic although I never went to Catholic school and my formal Catholic education ended when I made my Confirmation in the 5th grade. So… really I had a 5th grade education as far as my faith was concerned.
It sufficed for close to 40 years. I was comfortable with doing what I felt like doing, living a faith that was more self made then it was Church based. I only recently have begun UNDERSTANDING ‘the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist’ and have recently begun to understand the teaching behind JPII Theology of the Body.
Which brings meto the birth control issue. I have been married for 28 years and have a beautiful, happy marriage. My husband and I have 3 grown children. When my youngest was only 6 months old, my husband had a vasectomy because he felt that he couldn’t handle more children. Financially or emotionally. We had always used ABC so the idea of a vasectomy was never something we thought of as offensive.
It came as a surprise to me when the emotional impact of what we did as a couple began to sink in. I cried when I realized that my daughter would be the last child I would bring into the world. We had put an end to our fertility as a couple.
There is a emptiness in making love without the possibility of creating life that I didn’t understand or feel until we were infertile. There were times I cried silently afterwards because although the physical experience and love was there, there was something that was missing, something that was taken away.
As years passed and we matured as a couple, we came to regret the decision we made when we were in our 30’s. We regret having put our trust in our own abilities rather then putting our trust in what God had in store for us as a married couple.
My advice as a person who has used ABC is to not abandon your practicing NFP. Find other ways as a couple to express your closeness on the days you are fertile, cuddle and kiss and count the days to your ‘safe’ time. Plan for those days and use them to the fullest. On the times when you absolutely can’t hold back your passion for one another, leave the fruitfulness up to God, you’ll know the time the day and the love that went into creating the new life if life is created out of that night of passion.
I will pray for you and your spouse.

Milkandhoney,
THANK YOU for sharing such beautiful words of wisdom along with your powerful testimony! This is one of the most insightful, honest, and sincere posts I have read on this forum regarding the Church’s teaching of nfp.

I often cringe or just shake my head when posters cut and paste from the Catechism and/or chide others by saying that contraception is “intrinsically evil,” “a mortal sin,” etc. While they are professing the truth, their words do not communicate love and they come off appearing too legalistic, controlling, and judgemental, at least to me. Your story is personal and gets to the heart of the teaching.

I have been on the fence regarding the Church’s teaching and you accomplished more by sharing your personal experience rather than quoting doctrine.

Thank you again for taking the time to write it.

 

[Catherine_W]

I don’t know if someone has already explained this but… I think when people are saying divorce is better than committing grave sin through using birth control… I believe they mean divorce in the legal since. Even when you are legally divorced, you are still married to this person in God’s eyes… you will be for the rest of you lives, and thus you must remain chaste and can not date or remarry. I’m not saying I support this decision to divorce… I am just trying to explain what I think it means. Some people understood it to mean… “Get divorced and remarry for a better sex life”, but that is not how a Catholic sees divorce. Instead it means legally divorce, live separatly from your spouce, and never have sex with anyone else again, unless you and your spouce eventually get back toghether.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

I don’t know if someone has already explained this but… I think when people are saying divorce is better than committing grave sin through using birth control… I believe they mean divorce in the legal since. Even when you are legally divorced, you are still married to this person in God’s eyes… you will be for the rest of you lives, and thus you must remain chaste and can not date or remarry. I’m not saying I support this decision to divorce… I am just trying to explain what I think it means. Some people understood it to mean… “Get divorced and remarry for a better sex life”, but that is not how a Catholic sees divorce. Instead it means legally divorce, live separatly from your spouce, and never have sex with anyone else again, unless you and your spouce eventually get back toghether.

:yup: Exactly

 

[ErichsGurl2]

We really need to be careful in evaluating another person’s level of repentance. I think this is the danger in Catholicism is that some of us who are completely following the Vatican and Catechism become like Pharisees and think we have the right or ability to judge whether someone is contrite or not. I think this person got a tubal in a frustrating situation and later felt sorry for it but does not regret the benefits of it. We all have imperfect contrition at times. I know I have. Would that we could all be 100% contrite and perfect. How many guys have watched dirty movies with their buddies, regretted it, confessed it, and then once in a while reminisced together about the “good old days.” Let’s be careful in analyzing other people’s contrition. We must remove the wooden beams in our own eyes first. In the “Imitation of Christ” we are told to look at everyone as 1000 times more righteous and holy than ourselves and that WE are the sinners who need help.

DITTO
(Thank you)

 

[anna1978]

OP: you’re not alone, we tried NFP for almost 2 years and gave up…it was just too difficult. Now we just have sex and let God decide…funny enough, I haven’t gotten pregnant since! Our youngest will be 3 in January. I wouldn’t say ‘just chuck NFP’ if you’re very fertile (3 in 3 years says you are), but it DOES give you peace in a way, you don’t have days that are off-limits and if you’re in the mood, you CAN. I trust God knows, and right now He obviously feels we’re ‘not ready’ for another one…but the aggro of NFP, I’d never go back to that!

Anna x

 

[KellyK]

I haven’t read through this whole thread, so forgive me if I say something that has already been covered. I have to say that I’m miserable with NFP also. I have been studying it for the past few months, but I am too scared to use it, because it seems like such a gamble to me. Getting pregnant would be the absolute worst thing that could happen. Why do I say this?? Because I suffer from a mental illness, and there are times when I am incapable of taking care of myself, much less a child. My child would probably suffer a great deal because of my mental illness. So for me, if NFP fails, it would be absolutely devastating. I’m not willing to take such a risk. There are days when I can’t even function, and I am out of touch with reality, yet I am expected to keep track of my body symtoms with NFP when I can’t even think rational thoughts. I was on artificial birth control for a while, but I no longer use it because I do not want to offend God, and because that isn’t 100% reliable either. So right now my husband and I no longer have sex. It has severely damaged our marriage. My husband has turned to porn, and we have grown apart. I would like to get a hysterectomy, since that is 100% reliable, but I know that would be going against Church teaching. So I have two choices here: I can either abstain from sex for my entire marriage, further damaging my relationship with my husband, or I can use NFP and run the risk of getting pregnant with a child who will more than likely have a horrible life because of my mental illness. So I can either make my husband miserable, or I can make my future child miserable. Which choice should I make?? Who’s life gets destroyed??

 

[whatevergirl]

I haven’t read through this whole thread, so forgive me if I say something that has already been covered. I have to say that I’m miserable with NFP also. I have been studying it for the past few months, but I am too scared to use it, because it seems like such a gamble to me. Getting pregnant would be the absolute worst thing that could happen. Why do I say this?? Because I suffer from a mental illness, and there are times when I am incapable of taking care of myself, much less a child. My child would probably suffer a great deal because of my mental illness. So for me, if NFP fails, it would be absolutely devastating. I’m not willing to take such a risk. There are days when I can’t even function, and I am out of touch with reality, yet I am expected to keep track of my body symtoms with NFP when I can’t even think rational thoughts. I was on artificial birth control for a while, but I no longer use it because I do not want to offend God, and because that isn’t 100% reliable either. So right now my husband and I no longer have sex. It has severely damaged our marriage. My husband has turned to porn, and we have grown apart. I would like to get a hysterectomy, since that is 100% reliable, but I know that would be going against Church teaching. So I have two choices here: I can either abstain from sex for my entire marriage, further damaging my relationship with my husband, or I can use NFP and run the risk of getting pregnant with a child who will more than likely have a horrible life because of my mental illness. So I can either make my husband miserable, or I can make my future child miserable. Which choice should I make?? Who’s life gets destroyed??

I’m terribly sorry to hear this…my prayers are with you. I grew up with a mom who was diagnosed ‘manic depressive’ early on in my parents’ marriage…and I know from hearing stories from my sister, that my dad took care of a lot of things. But, I still had great respect and love for my mother. She would sleep a lot, and was often ‘out of it’ from her meds. She died by the time I was 10, but I just wanted to say that God works in mysterious ways. If you were blessed to have a child, God would find a way for you and your husband to handle it. But, that being said…I’m wondering if speaking with a priest would make the most sense. His advice will be sounder than anything I could offer.

God bless.