Misguided emotional reactions

[PartoftheBody]

I’m hoping others who have gone through things like this can give me suggestions as to how to help my husband…

My husband has a tendency, when he feels upset, anxious, or disappointed, to drink alcohol more and/or say very hurtful things he doesn’t really mean in angry outbursts.

Now, in some ways, it’s not as bad as it used to be. He’s gotten better about calming down faster from and apologizing for these outbursts. Sometimes he’ll even later tell me what he’s really feeling. Also, since I understand he has this tendency, I am often able to not take the things he says to heart as much as I did before I understood this pattern.

The thing is, though, the drinking and outbursts have been happening more often lately because of the stress from his work, the coming baby, and our difficulty finding a new, bigger place to live. Tonight was an especially bad outburst, after we got the news that yet another landlord chose different tenants who were willing to pay $400/mo more than he had been asking for rent, which is more than we can afford. [This is not uncommon. The real estate and rental market is absolutely INSANE in our area, but that’s a whole other topic] My husband said some especially mean things that really got to me, and now, I can’t sleep, thinking about what he said.

He has told me he doesn’t like the way he deals with his problems, but he seems convinced that he can’t change. I’ve tried to convince him that he can learn new, healthier ways to deal with stress and anxiety, but he’s not willing to go to counseling or even read books on dealing with emotions in healthy ways. I’m reading a book on emotions right now myself, but he’s not interested in reading it together. I’ve tried redirecting him to talk about the real issue when I know what it is (sometimes it’s not as obvious). Like tonight, when he started cursing about our housing situation, I said, “Yeah, I’m disappointed, too.” That didn’t really work.

I’m especially concerned that this pattern will continue after the baby is born. One, the physical toll of caring for the baby will no doubt make it harder for me to brush off the mean things he says. Two, when the baby gets older, I don’t want him thinking that Dad’s way is the appropriate way to deal with stress. Three, it took me a year or two, as an adult, to really be able to understand that my husband had dysfunctional coping strategies and to try not to take it personally. I’m not sure a small child would have the capacity to understand that Dad was just upset about something else and doesn’t really think his child is stupid, lazy, crazy, worthless, etc, even though he said it. Granted he may never say things like that to our child, but I can’t be sure since he says them to me.

I don’t want to leave my husband or anything like that. I just want him to practice healthier ways of dealing with his problems, for his own sake, our baby’s sake, and for my own sake. Any ideas how can I help him to do that?

 

[Christy_Beth]

My first instinct is to have him see a doctor. Why? There might be physical/mental reasons for all of this. I mean, I can have outburst of anger and anxiety over stuff that seems trivial. I’ve never been into drinking, but the rest sounds kind of like me. I have been diagnosed with Anxiety disorder, along with a few other things. There is help for this stuff, but he has to be willing to do his part in seeking out the cause and then doing whatever it takes to get a handle on it.

I won’t try to suggest that you leave him, or tell him he has to leave. But you need to make a strong case that he has to get this help. Not just for himself, but for you and the baby as well. Tell him you love him enough to know that he can do better. Sometimes love has to be tough. Is there someone who you can stay with for a few days? Let him know that this is only temporary. But it will, hopefully and prayerfully, help him to see what it would be like to live on his own. If he is going to be a good husband and father, he needs to get to working on this.

 

[Lamentation]

He’s in the early stages of alcoholism. You must simply implore him to stop drinking all together, and if he can’t do it on his own, to go find your local AA meetings.

 

[pensmama87]

He’s in the early stages of alcoholism. You must simply implore him to stop drinking all together, and if he can’t do it on his own, to go find your local AA meetings.

I have to say I agree with this. Alcoholism and other addictions often start as coping behavior. The problem is that the addiction becomes “set” in the brain and the brain literally forgets other ways of managing and only responds to the “fix” of using. It can be very, very difficult to stop because the brain has to rewire itself to respond to other coping stimuli, and the addict has to learn and get better at those behaviors.

The problem is you can’t make him see that he has an issue if he refuses to accept that he has one. You can take steps as much as possible to make sure you’re not enabling his use, but he needs to decide to stop.

 

[LittleRose]

He has told me he doesn’t like the way he deals with his problems, but he seems convinced that he can’t change. I’ve tried to convince him that he can learn new, healthier ways to deal with stress and anxiety, but he’s not willing to go to counseling or even read books on dealing with emotions in healthy ways. I’m reading a book on emotions right now myself, but he’s not interested in reading it together. I’ve tried redirecting him to talk about the real issue when I know what it is (sometimes it’s not as obvious). Like tonight, when he started cursing about our housing situation, I said, “Yeah, I’m disappointed, too.” That didn’t really work.

I’m especially concerned that this pattern will continue after the baby is born. One, the physical toll of caring for the baby will no doubt make it harder for me to brush off the mean things he says. Two, when the baby gets older, I don’t want him thinking that Dad’s way is the appropriate way to deal with stress. Three, it took me a year or two, as an adult, to really be able to understand that my husband had dysfunctional coping strategies and to try not to take it personally. I’m not sure a small child would have the capacity to understand that Dad was just upset about something else and doesn’t really think his child is stupid, lazy, crazy, worthless, etc, even though he said it. Granted he may never say things like that to our child, but I can’t be sure since he says them to me.

I don’t want to leave my husband or anything like that. I just want him to practice healthier ways of dealing with his problems, for his own sake, our baby’s sake, and for my own sake. Any ideas how can I help him to do that?

This is a terrible situation.

Unfortunately, you can’t help someone who doesn’t want help, and there is no magical strategy any of us can offer you to make him want help. He will probably not change, and your child will witness this behavior. Being close to two people who grew up with an angry alcoholic father, I can tell you that the damage this causes to a child is deep and long-lasting. I watched it eat one of these people up from the inside out for many years. Both of them required years of counseling and/or support group meetings just to learn to cope with this. While many women married to such men say, “but he’s really good in these other ways,” the fact is both of their fathers had other, better qualities, but these did not do anything to minimize the emotional damage.

You are going to have to decide what to do based on the reality of who he is and the fact that he does not want help. Don’t make a decision based on what you hope for, but based on what is. I strongly recommend that you consider joining al-anon for support and do everything you can to protect your baby from him.

 

[tawny]

Please have your husband seek professional help, there appears to be very serious underlying problems & issues. Praying for your husband to get the help he needs & for you & your family.

 

[PartoftheBody]

Thank you for your responses and prayers.

I used to blame it all on his drinking. While I still think alcohol exacerbates the problem, he has had the angry outbursts when he’s had no alcohol in his system. On the flip side, there have also been plenty of times he has had too much to drink and not had the angry outbursts.

I did go to an Al-Anon meeting a couple months ago, and I might go back if my schedule permits. From what I read on alcoholism, though, at least at this point, he seems to meet the definition of a “heavy drinker” more than that of an “alcoholic.”

It may sound naive to hope he will change his behavior, but he has been able to change for the better with other problematic behaviors in the past. This morning, I talked with him about what happened last night and reminded him of the things he said. He apologized, and he was more open to reading the book on emotions that I mentioned in the original post. So, at least it’s a start.

I am willing to draw a hard line in the sand if this behavior doesn’t improve and might in any way harm our baby. I don’t want to do this until it’s absolutely necessary, though. I had to threaten to leave once before to get him to understand the seriousness of that situation, and I don’t want do it again unless I’ve exhausted all other options.

In the meantime, maybe I’ll have a little talk with St Monica…

 

[CatholicRaven]

Continue to pray for him, of course.

But also, I’m going to suggest something that is generally not easy for us wives to do, but I have found can really help. Well, at least when I can manage to remember to do it, instead of getting angry back, and making things worse.

When he says something hurtful, gently and sincerely tell him, “That really hurt,” or simply say something like, “Ouch.” Then–and here is the hard part–say nothing else. You just let him know that he hurt your feelings, and that’s enough–let him digest that. Don’t argue or blame, don’t tell him more about how you’re feeling, don’t attempt to empathize or solve the problem, don’t engage him in other conversation to distract him, and especially, don’t respond if he snaps at you or replies with sarcasm or more hurtful comments. Just bite your tongue.

The reason is that more words from you will only block out what he really needs to hear. Once he knows he hurt you, what he really needs to hear is not you but his own heart, so be quiet and let his conscience do the talking, and let his guardian angel be the one to poke and prod him–and they will.

It takes time to break bad habits and to change behaviors. The first step is learning to recognize that we made a mistake–but that doesn’t always mean we manage to catch ourselves in time as soon as we recognize we’re in the wrong. The fact that he is calming down faster means that he is beginning to change the behavior. It will just take more time.

If he’s the type to calm down with a hug, you can try that, but for some, this would only make things worse, so use your best judgement there. For instance, with my husband, it’s all about timing–at the right time, it works beautifully, as he’s reminded that we will get through this together… but at the wrong time, it can come across as disrespectful, as though I am saying he’s a child who can’t handle a little boo-boo without a kiss from Mommy. YMMV.

Thank him and show him some love when he apologizes. Tell him that you appreciate that he’s working on it, and that you admire his perseverence (assuming this is sincere, of course).

Lastly, find one or two things you love that he does, and remind him often that you’re proud of him and appreciate those things about him. It seems unrelated, I know, but if he is reminded that he does something well, and that his wife recognizes that, it’s likely that his confidence in himself will grow, and that should really help him overcome these other struggles.

HTH!

 

[PartoftheBody]

Thanks Raven! I’ll try that

 

[pensmama87]

Thank you for your responses and prayers.

I used to blame it all on his drinking. While I still think alcohol exacerbates the problem, he has had the angry outbursts when he’s had no alcohol in his system. On the flip side, there have also been plenty of times he has had too much to drink and not had the angry outbursts.

I did go to an Al-Anon meeting a couple months ago, and I might go back if my schedule permits. From what I read on alcoholism, though, at least at this point, he seems to meet the definition of a “heavy drinker” more than that of an “alcoholic.”

It may sound naive to hope he will change his behavior, but he has been able to change for the better with other problematic behaviors in the past. This morning, I talked with him about what happened last night and reminded him of the things he said. He apologized, and he was more open to reading the book on emotions that I mentioned in the original post. So, at least it’s a start.

I am willing to draw a hard line in the sand if this behavior doesn’t improve and might in any way harm our baby. I don’t want to do this until it’s absolutely necessary, though. I had to threaten to leave once before to get him to understand the seriousness of that situation, and I don’t want do it again unless I’ve exhausted all other options.

In the meantime, maybe I’ll have a little talk with St Monica…

Some people, when they give up alcohol, become what are called “dry drunks” - they continue their alcoholic behavior even without a drop of alcohol. This is what I referred to in my earlier post about the brain needing to rewire itself. Withdrawal is a nasty process - that’s why so many people who attempt it relapse, even multiple times. It takes a long time for the brain to shut off the cells that were created for the express purpose of receiving the rush from the fix, and create new pathways. Depending on the damage done by the substance itself, this can take years.

You may have had this opportunity through Al-Anon, but I’d encourage you to read the “Big Book” if you haven’t already. You can find it for free online. It offers a lot of insight into the addicted mind. The thing to keep in mind is that an addict sometimes can exert the will for a time to limit using, but this almost never lasts, because the compulsion to use more gets stronger AND the addict has convinced him or herself that they are a responsible user.

I will pray for you and your husband. I think St. Monica would be a great intercessor.

 

[chevalier]

Get him to talk to a counsellor, convince him it’s not a shame… Better even a shrink than the bottle TBH. Perhaps help him realise that what he’s after drinking too much is not what he wants to be. And not his real self, either. Ultimately, alcohol can be treacherous. One’s reactions to it can vary depending on the level of tiredness, sleep deprivation, cigarette smoke in the room, sadness/emotional resilience at the moment and other things. I’ve sort of learnt it the hard way you can’t really trust alcohol in such circumstances, including amounts that wouldn’t normally bat your eye at.

 

[PartoftheBody]

I thought about starting a new thread, but this is related enough that I’ll continue here.

Tonight, the angry outburst was over our bed. Because we have a King size bed in a small room, we can’t fit the bassinet next to our bed. Even if we rearranged the furniture, it wouldn’t work. I thought this bassinet, marketed as a space-saver model, would fit so I put it on my baby registry, but the dimensions were misleading. So if we keep our current bed, we have to keep the bassinet at the foot of the bed or even farther away. This means I’ll have to get up and walk to the baby every time I nurse at night. My husband was fine with this set-up, because he really likes the bed. I think it’s not an ideal situation, especially when I’ll be healing from a c-section.

My cousin (in town) was planning to get a king size bed in the near future, and she said she’d be willing to switch her queen for our king. She even said she’d be willing to switch back after the baby “graduates” from the bassinet in a few months and my cousin gets her own king.

Well, when I ran this plan by my husband, he hit the roof. Suddenly, he “doesn’t even have a say in his house anymore” and I’m “giving him ultimatums,” “making unnecessary work for him,” “wasting thousands of dollars,” “unwilling to compromise,” and “making decisions without him.” I tried to explain that it was just an idea for a possible solution, and that I was concerned about the king bed set up making it more difficult for me to care for the baby at night.
Then he said the most horrible thing I think he’s ever said, “I don’t even want the baby anymore.” Now, never for a second did I believe he meant it. I’m not sure any man has ever wanted a baby more. Still, hearing that made me quite upset…hence the late-night post, since I can’t seem to “unhear” those words and sleep, even after an apology.

I’ll skip ahead to make this a little more brief. After he calmed down, we talked more calmly about his reaction. He bought the bed as a bachelor with his future wife in mind, even though we hadn’t met yet. Wanting to switch the bed to him was symbolic of failure on his part. It was like I was rejecting a gift from him. It was compounded by his feeling of failure related to our housing situation, which isn’t his fault at all.

As to the outburst part, I talked about how emotionally difficult it is to be on the receiving end of these outbursts. I pressed for a good faith gesture that he will make an effort to stop, and offered several suggestions (individual or couples counseling, spiritual direction, support groups, reading the previously mentioned book, etc). He was considering it when he fell asleep. I’m not letting this go, though. It will be revisited in the morning. [aside: I kind of resent that he is able to sleep after what he did, and I can’t]

So, I guess my question is related to what to do about this symbolic meaning aspect. How do I get to that part faster? How do I make it clear that I’m focusing on the literal and logistical issues at hand, not the meaning he attaches to them that I didn’t even know about?

 

[doglover2]

Hmmm try not to care so much what other people think, then you won’t be upset if someone says something rude

 

[MJJean]

Hmmm try not to care so much what other people think, then you won’t be upset if someone says something rude

Doglover, it’s her husband and the father of her unborn baby. The relationship between spouses is so deep and in all ways intimate that it is impossible to not care. The closeness between married people is almost impossible to describe to someone who has never been married. It’s quite different from a dating relationship on many levels. There is great joy, comfort, and security to be found in a marital relationship. The flip side is that no one can emotionally hurt you the way a spouse can.

Partofthebody, I am sorry you are going through this. Your husband is emotionally abusive and a borderline alcoholic if he hasn’t crossed the border yet. This is not a safe and healthy environment to bring a baby into. He or she can already hear your husbands angry tones. How do you think this will affect the baby’s developing brain after birth? I believe I read that 80% of our total emotional development happens by age 5. 80%! It’s not a question of “if” or “might”. The fact is that your husbands inability to cope will damage your child if it is not handled now.

You said your husband very much wants this baby. I will take it a step further and assume your husband already loves this child. Well, love is a verb. It’s what you do. So, your husband has to seek professional help and put 100% effort into changing his behavior as proof of love. If it were me, I’d tell him that point blank. I’d explain that these behaviors are very hurtful and difficult for an adult to deal with and will be extremely damaging to a child who is young and doesn’t have the capability of understanding and coping the way an adult does and that he either has to seek help immediately or you will have to separate. Yes, it’s that serious. Your job is to protect that child even from it’s father if necessary.

My father was very similar to your husband. I cannot express the emotional damage his outbursts did to me and my siblings. 75-80% of the time he was a wonderful dad. Hardworking, great sense of humor, always doing cool things for us like taking us on mini-vacations to hotels with indoor pools and gaming areas for a weekend or making snow forts, etc.etc. But that other 25-20% of the time he would “fly off the handle” and react badly to stress and upset and say terrible things to us kids and our mom. We would go from being the most amazing kids and mom ever to being “lazy”, “selfish”, “worthless”, “spoiled”, “ungrateful”, “stupid”, “useless” life ruiners. Then he would apologize and go back to being Super Dad.

My sister is unable to cope with stresses and flies off the handle. She and her husband have viscous fights because that is what they think of as normal married life due to their childhoods. That was the example set by our parents. And that is the example they set their 6 kids. My brother is just like our father and I honestly feel sorry for his fiancee and their 3 kids. I, as the oldest, have had longer to understand and to deal with our childhood experiences, but it hasn’t been easy and I have my scars, too.

I got this from Facebook and I think it applies here.

Pick up a plate

• Ok

Drop it.
-Done

Did it break?
-Yes

Now, say you’re sorry

• I’m sorry

Did it go back to the way it was?

• No

Get the point?

Yes, apologizing and asking forgiveness is the correct action when we hurt someone. But the apology cannot undo damage done. Your husband needs to get help. Now.

 

[Maine52]

Doglover, it’s her husband and the father of her unborn baby. The relationship between spouses is so deep and in all ways intimate that it is impossible to not care. The closeness between married people is almost impossible to describe to someone who has never been married. It’s quite different from a dating relationship on many levels. There is great joy, comfort, and security to be found in a marital relationship. The flip side is that no one can emotionally hurt you the way a spouse can.

Partofthebody, I am sorry you are going through this. Your husband is emotionally abusive and a borderline alcoholic if he hasn’t crossed the border yet. This is not a safe and healthy environment to bring a baby into. He or she can already hear your husbands angry tones. How do you think this will affect the baby’s developing brain after birth? I believe I read that 80% of our total emotional development happens by age 5. 80%! It’s not a question of “if” or “might”. The fact is that your husbands inability to cope will damage your child if it is not handled now.

You said your husband very much wants this baby. I will take it a step further and assume your husband already loves this child. Well, love is a verb. It’s what you do. So, your husband has to seek professional help and put 100% effort into changing his behavior as proof of love. If it were me, I’d tell him that point blank. I’d explain that these behaviors are very hurtful and difficult for an adult to deal with and will be extremely damaging to a child who is young and doesn’t have the capability of understanding and coping the way an adult does and that he either has to seek help immediately or you will have to separate. Yes, it’s that serious. Your job is to protect that child even from it’s father if necessary.

My father was very similar to your husband. I cannot express the emotional damage his outbursts did to me and my siblings. 75-80% of the time he was a wonderful dad. Hardworking, great sense of humor, always doing cool things for us like taking us on mini-vacations to hotels with indoor pools and gaming areas for a weekend or making snow forts, etc.etc. But that other 25-20% of the time he would “fly off the handle” and react badly to stress and upset and say terrible things to us kids and our mom. We would go from being the most amazing kids and mom ever to being “lazy”, “selfish”, “worthless”, “spoiled”, “ungrateful”, “stupid”, “useless” life ruiners. Then he would apologize and go back to being Super Dad.

My sister is unable to cope with stresses and flies off the handle. She and her husband have viscous fights because that is what they think of as normal married life due to their childhoods. That was the example set by our parents. And that is the example they set their 6 kids. My brother is just like our father and I honestly feel sorry for his fiancee and their 3 kids. I, as the oldest, have had longer to understand and to deal with our childhood experiences, but it hasn’t been easy and I have my scars, too.

I got this from Facebook and I think it applies here.

Pick up a plate

• Ok

Drop it.
-Done

Did it break?
-Yes

Now, say you’re sorry

• I’m sorry

Did it go back to the way it was?

• No

Get the point?

Yes, apologizing and asking forgiveness is the correct action when we hurt someone. But the apology cannot undo damage done. Your husband needs to get help. Now.

I don’t know what else there is to say. This is 100% spot on and then some. If he does not get help, you will have to separate for the sake of your child. Prayers for you.

 

[PartoftheBody]

Thank you for your responses MJ and Maine. I will think about them when I am tempted to let things go during the good times.

We talked more yesterday about just how damaging his outbursts are and how they are not an inextricable part of who he is, but an action that he can unlearn. Also, because they keep happening, it’s a sign that he can’t stop doing it on his own. He seems to think that once the baby is born he’ll not be so anxious and it won’t happen anymore.

So, I proposed that if it happened again, it was a sign that he needs help, and he will go to counseling without resistance. If it never happens again, then it’s not an ongoing problem, and no counseling is needed. He didn’t expressly agree, but said he couldn’t argue with my logic.

He also agreed to give up alcohol for Lent, so maybe that will help, too.

 

[CatholicRaven]

He seems to think that once the baby is born he’ll not be so anxious and it won’t happen anymore.

:doh2: He’s going to have one heck of a wake-up call when he’s finally able to hold that child in his arms. Poor guy.

I think your proposal was a good way to handle it. Just be prepared in case next time it happens, he claims that he “didn’t agree” to those terms. Not saying he will say that, but it’s a real possibility if he is strongly resisting getting help (and unfortunately, some men–and women–seem to think “getting help” is another way of saying, “I am a failure because I couldn’t do it alone”).

Hoping and praying for you both.