Mismatched sexual/physical drives

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I_Need_Grace

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Hello, all.

Everyone gives great advice here (I lurk often, but don’t post much), so I thought I would take this issue here, to you all.

My husband and I are happily married. I have struggled with a few emotional fidelity issues during the last few months, but I have recently begun to really conquer those and look deeper as to why I was motivated to emotionally attach myself to other men whom I didn’t even know.

I have been honest with my husband and he knows the extent to which I betrayed him in my heart. He has shown me love and forgiveness. One problem we are working through, however, is a mismatched sexual drive. This has plagued us ever since we were married a few years ago.

We do not contracept and we did not have sex before marriage. However, before marriage (during engagement) staving off my husband was difficult! He seemed to have a very healthy sexual drive and appeared to desire me very much. This is/was very important to me and I let him know that.

Before marriage, he worked hard to conquer solitary sin. He succeeded in doing so. However, he has told me that he might have started to correlate orgasm with sin a few years ago and never lost that correlation. He can be very aroused and still choose not to want sex because he’s “tired,” etc.

When we do have sex, it completely wipes him out. Is this normal? Albeit, sex (when it actually happens) is wonderful, and he will say “oh, we have to do this as often as possible, its so beautiful,” etc. and then it doesn’t happen for many days (or weeks) later. But afterwards he falls into a deep stupor sleep and is simply exhausted, even the next day.

He is an amazing husband in every other way, but I am so frustrated and I feel very denied and unwanted. He says he finds me attractive and loves me and is not trying to punish me for the events of the last few months (and, he has had this problem since the beginning, so I know my actions did not precipitate this issue).

My love language is physical touch, and SOMETIMES he is good about hugs and kisses. But the rest of the time I am starving for love and attention and expression.

Any advice?

This is so embarrassing because usually it’s the opposite.
 
I would think that the first step would be to find out if there is a physical reason for why he has a 24hr physical response to having an orgasm. If it isn’t physical then I would seek out some spiritual counsel to help him deal with hangups that somehow has a hold on him. Of course this is something that he has to seek out because he is the one with the problem. The biggest problem would be finding the right priest or godly man who could help him through this.

Until this problem improves, I would suggest that you initiate the affection that you desire without the expectation of sex. I doubt that your husband will not respond to your hugs and cuddling and affection. It may be just the sex part that he is having a problem with. He may not be as affectionate as you would like because he may think that he will have to follow through with sex and may be holding back because of it. Try making him feel comfortable with only the affection and try not to make him feel that you have further expectations. Maybe then you could try having a romantic evening once a week and see if he will be receptive to having sex. You are probably feeling very frustrated and he is probably feeling very pressured and maybe even threatened. Maybe if some of the tension or even anger can be relieved it will make it easier to feel comfortable with the sex. I would just take it slow and give him lots of attention and affection and pray for Gods help and fight against the temptations to be unfaithful. You might also benefit from having a godly woman to talk to.

I’m only suggesting this because my husband seems to associate any kind of attention with sex and sometimes I know that I’m not as affectionate or attentive as I would be if this were not the case. There was a time when I felt like a sex machine and I got really turned off of even going to bed a night and found reasons not to. Reading the posts on these forums have helped me because other people have addressed some of my issues and I’ve had the advantage of reading the responses of the apologists and other godly people. It has helped me a great deal. I’ve also been able to communicate my feelings with my husband and he isn’t as demanding now and I don’t feel so pressured.

I’m definately not an expert but only someone on the other side of the issue. Someone else will probably be able to give you some expert advice. I just thought I would give you the benefit of my experience and feelings. God bless you and keep you.
 
It’s a tragic, frustrating situation

My ex-wife became a nun after the wedding “There’ll be none of this and none of that!”

Sex is like air; you don’t miss it until it is gone

While it is not uncommon to fall asleep after sex (especial for us guys over a certain age) it shouldn’t be all the time and the recovery period should be shorter than days or weeks :eek:

I’ll spare you the trite suggestions about “try to spice it up”
You probably know all that and if your partner is fundamentally unwilling/unable it may just leave you feeling even more frustrated

Since, as the saying goes, our brain is our biggest sex organ perhaps there is something on his mind

Hopefully he isn’t one of those who has been brow beaten into associating sex with sin

Perhaps those previous emotional issues cut a little deeper than you both thought?

Or maybe you just have different drives…It’s a tragic, frustrating situation
 
Thank you both for your responses.

I do think my husband has major associations with sex being sinful. He is very conservative. Spicing things up (even in a moral way) can turn him off or offend him. We have recently gone back to having specific “date nights” once a week. Sex has happened one out of those four times, and it exhausted him afterward.

My husband is not out of shape, either. He’s almost 5’11 and weighs 170lbs. He is semi-active and does some sort of exercise a couple times a week, although I think he would benefit from more. (I work out five times a week.) He used to be considerably more active, and the results still show in his body, so I don’t think it is a physical reason for not having energy.

He does respond very well to my affection and rarely turns away. Affection and sex seem to be two entirely different things for my husband though, so generally when we are hugging and holding, both of us are content with that. However, he is unlike my friends’ husbands in that instead of expecting sex, he expects to NOT have sex when the lights go out. He is always seemingly surprised by my touches or hints or plain old asking.

He also is very particular about sex itself. We both have to be freshly out of the shower, towels, etc. (For instance, if we both showered in the morning for work, then sex when we get home is out of the question until both of us are squeaky clean out shower #2 (and I have to re-apply make up and do my hair). And no, we do not have jobs that make either of us messy–we are both corporate employees.) It is very annoying in that there is zero spontaneity and by the time everything is “just so” I am totally turned off. The idea of anything besides missionary sex in our bed (meaning no other rooms or positions) is very well…almost alarming to him.

When I realized that suggesting anything else out of the ordinary made him uncomfortable, I completely stopped. I am more than willing to be content with what he is willing to give, if he would just give SOMETHING more often.

There was a period of time when I stopped asking for anything. Sex, affection, nothing. It went on for seven weeks before I just broke down crying and crying and practically begging for some attention. He was shocked and hadn’t even noticed that we hadn’t had sex for almost 2 months. (He had occasionally given me hugs and kisses, but he is happy with a peck on the cheek or an arm squeeze. During that time I didn’t ask for more.)

We have had other stressors in our life, but we have not had five years of stressors and this continues to go on and I continue to feel cheated of the marital happiness we both deserve. I love him so much and he is such a good husband in every other way.

I have more to say but I need to get to mass…
 
That is a tough situation, I will pray for you.

Mane nobiscum Domine!
 
Grace how old is your husband and has he had a physical recently? This does not seem to be normal–that he has such a sense of exhaustion. I would suggest he see a good internist and explain the situation to him. There may be an underlying physical cause.

Lisa N
 
Hi Lisa,

My husband is 29. As I mentioned, he is in good health, although we have suspected that he suffers from SAD (seasonal affective disorder, i think it is called) in the winter time, because his issues with exhaustion seem very related to temperature and lack of sunlight. However, he is not interested in receiving sunlight therapy or going on any medication for it.

The flip side to that coin, however, is that in the summer time he does not like very much sex because he doesn’t like slick body heat , etc., as it offends him. (I need to point out that neither of us have ever “sweated” during sex, so this is all in his mind.) For instance, he doesn’t like to sleep close together because he doesn’t like our skin to be stuck together if we start to get overheated from warm temperatures in the middle of the night. He is just very “particular” and sensitive to things that would never cross my mind.

When I say he is exhausted after orgasm, I mean he falls fast asleep if intercourse happens after work or toward the end of the day. He then wakes up the following morning slightly late for work and complains about feeling very worn out and sleepy.

He has seen his doctor in the last year and received a physical last spring. Everything was hormonally in balance and seemed to be fine. So, either his biochemistry is just wired to have a low sex drive (which I don’t think is true because he is aroused very often but does not follow through), or he has emotional issues surrounding sex.

The latter is what makes sense to me, but it is very difficult to talk to him about this because he feels attacked, I think, even when I am very gentle and couch it all with kind words and praises first. I think part of the problem is that neither of us know how to fix it, and I don’t want to have sex with my husband and feel like I am “making” him do it for my needs only. I want him to give himself to me because he WANTS to do so.

I feel like I am a little lost because I don’t know what is normal and what is not, as he is my only sexual partner, ever. I held out and held out and held out and held out for marriage, and I don’t want to ask mutual friends about their sex lives (despite how much they volunteer) because I would never want to shame him or embarrass him. However, I don’t know if it’s normal to be so sleepy after orgasm or to simply choose not to have sex because it might exert him.

The more I write about this the stranger it sounds to even me. I guess I have gotten used to his sexual quirks but they really bother me as of lately. I also feel guilty because I want to express very much that he is a wonderful person and I love him dearly, I just don’t know how to work through this issue and I feel very alone about it. I have suggested counseling but he feels it would betray our marital trust to discuss something so intimate with a stranger, in person.

I feel a little bit like he may have what I have heard called “the Madonna” complex about sex with his wife. Meaning, because he knows it is to be sacred and spiritual, that it has to be boring and too much enjoyment or anything out of the ordinary is sinful and it means he is being lustful and not loving. Exciting sex is illicit sex and therefore wrong. Does anyone know what I’m talking about?

Any further suggestions?
 
dear i need grace,

i think your enitre attitude is very admirable. not discussing this with mutual friends is wise, because if he ever became aware of that, it would probably embarass him. you should be proud of your recognition of that.

i’m no expert but i think you are right that his issues are emotional. i have met people with similar quirks concerning cleanliness, etc. they are not necessarily centered on sexuality. at some point, he may have internalized certain ideas about what’s icky and what’s not. that’s not necessarily bad either. but sex and physical contact intrude on what he feels is comfortable for his body. struggling with those issues in order to have sex can be mentally exhausting. it may just be more mentally comfortable to deeply sleep than continue to confront them.

perhaps you can discuss this aspect of his feelings completely outside the context of sex. help him to become comfortable with the idea that your body is now an extension of his body. he needs to accept your body in the same way that he accepts his. he has to let you into his ‘inner circle’ so to speak.

if he had no sexual experience before marriage he cannot expect to have been prepared for the intimate details of the female body. couples that wait to have sex until after marriage have work on building this ‘confort zone’ during marriage. it is not automatic. there’s a lot men don’t know. books and classes don’t take the place of the real thing. your husband isn’t the first guy to have body issues with his wife. some just jump right in and go with the flow. some don’t.

it is o.k. for him to have these thoughts for bodies in general. he has to see that exchanging sweat with just anyone might be icky, but your sweat is special. he has to come to the point where her claims your body for his own. encourage him while you are exploring these emotions with him. you will both learn a lot and become closer. ask him to imagine how liberating it will be for him to completely bare him to you without other issues intruding on your union. remind him that this is how God intends it to be.

associating sin with sex is the law for people who are not married. now that he is married, he must allow his faith to mature and build upon that moral foundation. remind him that marital relations are a special case of the same moral law. i highly recommend that you get the pope’s “theology of the body” or christopher west’s explanation of that teaching, and study it together. along with helping with this dilemma, it will really help you to enjoy approahing God together as a married couple. the pope’s book “sex and responsibility” is also are very valuable book for all married couples.

so that’s my (name removed by moderator)ut, for what its worth. hold hands a lot too. it works wonders, issues or not. and it is a very non-threatening way to confront the whole mingling of sweat and all that. dealing with that part of the issue may help you to sort out the details of the actual sexual act.

God bless,

john
 
Dear John,

Thank you SO much for your very compassionate post. I think you have a lot of insight into my situation and reading your thoughts about it were really comforting.

I have begun to make a point to be very gentle about affection with him and I usually do it when we are simply laying near each other and he is talking about something and may not notice at first, but then he cuddles closer to me and I rub his tummy, stroke his arm, his hair, clasp his hand, etc. This seems to work better because it gets underneath his defenses and he enjoys it without first thinking about it and rejecting the plea I might make for it or to give it. It also gives me an outlet to experience at least SOME physical touch.

He has some negative sexual experiences from his first few girlfriends, one in particular, where he experienced something that struck him as unhygenic (a certain type of sex and touching during menses) and he literally has applied that fear and disgust toward all women AND their genitalia, whether or not she (meaning, I) am experiencing menses… I take EXTREME care to be “perfectly” clean and sweet-smelling for him so as to not trigger those thoughts, but it is a good example of how much wounding takes places when sex outside of marriage happens. Nor do I EVER ask him to touch me during that time of the month. However, I do think that is where a lot of his issues with hygeine and sex come from. This was YEARS ago but he is not over it. He tells me that I am very clean, hygenic, etc but certain aspects of foreplay are something he does very grudgingly and sparingly–like, 3 times a year. This has been a source of disappointment and unfufillment for me, but I do not make any demands and instead wait for him to offer and give.

He and I did not have any sexual contact, with the exception of kissing and cuddling, prior to marriage. He seemed to desire me a great deal and while I knew he had had sexual experiences before me, I did not understand they were so damaging. After we were married, it took him a very long time to touch me in a husbandly way and not just for quick intercourse only.

It makes me sad to write this. Affection is okay but sex just does not flow naturally for him, and I don’t know what to do or how to help him with it. I try not to feel disappointed, but I am and it makes me feel so selfish for wanting more.

We do have those two books though. Thank you for those suggestions.
 
dear i need grace,

wow. now, i sympathize with him much more. he is right to be disgusted about that. there is something odd about, and wrong with, anyone who would not find that repulsive. i’ve heard a lot of sexual things that don’t make sense because they’re just icky, and that’s in the top ten, at least. i don’t know any woman who would allow that at all, and i’ve met some pretty sexually liberal women (if that’s the right adjective.) maybe you could tell him out loud that that disgusts you also and that would never want that. he may think that just because something has never happened, that doesn’t mean it never will.

help him to offer his injury to the wound of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, where all wounds are healed by His mercy. i have done many things that would disgust people if they heard about them. and even though i have received His forgiveness, it takes much longer for us, in our brokenness, to receive His mercy and forgive ourselves, and stop beating ourselves up for the scars we bear. he may very well discover that he has been holding onto the pain of his memories by continually telling himself “wow, i can’t believe that i did that.” we would not even be capable of such a thought if it were not for God within us. tell him to use it as a proof of faith, and nothing more.

perhaps you could take your showers prior to sex together. i’m not recommending introducing sexual novelty or anything. just mutual comfort. John Paul II teaches that the original man and woman were gifts to each other in their original nakedness. they were able to expose their bodies to one another because they had no fear that their mutual gift would be abused or rejected. Jesus Christ restores us to that original dignity. because we still live in history surrounded by sin, we exercise our redemption imperfectly. but that redemption is now, as much as it will be at the end of time. the nakedness of the husband and wife is an affirmation of love and the marriage bond. try to take care not to allow yourselves to be naked only because it is impossible to have sex with clothes on.

maybe now that so much is written out, it would be helpful to your husband to read this thread. only you can be the judge of that. i wouldn’t just say, “hey, honey, i wrote about us on the internet. wanna read?” maybe just say “i’d like you to read something.” when he’s done, say “i love you.” and hope he doesn’t go nuts. i think he’d be touched by how lovingly you approach his issues. but only you would know if this is the wrong thing to do.

thank you for your comments,

john
 
I don’t think all people find it “disgusting”. I don’t.

It is not something we regularly engage in, but bodily functions do not bother me much.

Grace, I sympathize with you. I would keep setting the boundary, gently but firmly, that this is an irreplacable part of your lives.

I’m sorry that he did not stick to the schedule. Keep at him. It took a long time for my husband to understand how important this was to me and that I was not going to give up on it.
We are in a very good place these days.

How much is he willing to compromise?
 
From your description, you husband could have Sexual Aversion Disorder - Male, Acquired Type, Due to Psychological Factors.

A quick internet search revealed a dissertation by Michael B. Smith on using video-conferencing in the treatment of this to lessen the impact of having to talk face-to-face with the therapist.
 
I spoke with my husband last night and laid it all out there. That even though he assures me he’s attracted to me, by his actions I feel that he rejects my sexuality and finds certain body parts repulsive.

He finally was honest and said he “hates” touching me there in any way, shape or form, except through sex. He says the “moisture” bothers him and makes him “want to scream” and “disgusts” him.

He said he would prefer to never touch me there again except for intercourse only, meaning no foreplay.

This made me so sad. I haven’t really stopped crying since our conversation, even though I told him I was at least happy he finally was honest with me.

I told him I would no longer expect him to touch me in a husbandly way because I do not want to further traumatize him. He seemed really relieved to hear that.

So, now for an indefinite time period we are going to only have intercourse on a semi-regular basis but no foreplay.

Does anyone have anything to say that will make me feel better? I feel so sad. My heart is breaking. I feel so unloveable.

And please don’t think I’m gross, because I’m not, despite what my husband’s reactions are. It makes me feel gross though.
 
I should add that I brought up my “theory” regarding his trama over past sexual relationships before our marriage, and he said it’s very true and that I’m right. He agrees that it is the reason we are having the difficulties we are…

He doesn’t feel able or willing to go to counseling though.
 
I Need Grace:
And please don’t think I’m gross, because I’m not, despite what my husband’s reactions are. It makes me feel gross though.
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You are not being gross. Honest. I admire how you have worded things and I am sorry for your pain. Please realize this is your husband and not you - however it severely impacts your marriage.

I will pray for you.
How about a therapist?
 
I would suggest having him read Christopher West’s books (or listen to his tapes as well) on Pope John Paul II’s "Theology of the Body."I think because of your husband’s deep faith and the fact he was somehow traumatized from early sexual activity (he seems to exhibit the same kinds of signs of someone who was sexually abused…and it has created a neurosis in him) that he could maybe really benefit from feeling like he has “permission” almost, (from Church teaching) to do or experience sexual things with his wife and that it is perfectly acceptable - good even - and not “sinful” or “dirty.”
“Theology of the Body for Beginners” or “Good News about Sex and Marriage” would be excellent choices if he has not already read them.
God Bless! You sound like a wonderful wife and person!
 
I Need Grace:
So, now for an indefinite time period we are going to only have intercourse on a semi-regular basis but no foreplay.

Does anyone have anything to say that will make me feel better? I feel so sad. My heart is breaking. I feel so unloveable.
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I’m very sorry you feel unloveable right now! There’s not much comfort I can give you besides reminding you that there are undoubtedly people in your life that love you very much – including your husband. 🙂

So, now that he was honest with you, at least you can grow from here. Truthful, open communication about this stuff is vital!

I have to tell you that my husband and I engage in intercourse without foreplay, at my request. Long story short, I have “baggage” when it comes to sex, and for me, the only way I can handle sex at this point is if we don’t do the foreplay thing. Hugging, holding, etc. is basically the extent of it — I wonder if your husband would be comfortable with that? It gives us time to be close, focus on each other, transition from “life” and get into the real mode of lovemaking without the stuff I (and it sounds like your husband) consider “icky”. Like John suggested, maybe shower before hand, light some candles, have your husband rub you down with some good smelling lotion, and then snuggle together. Focus on the intimacy you two can share, rather than the physical stuff he is uncomfortable with.

I don’t know. Hopefully with baby steps, lots of communication and a good dose of prayer, you guys can come to a comfortable spot for BOTH of you… which is really the important thing.

Take care and I’ll keep you in my prayers!
 
Wow, my heart and prayers go out to you! You’re in a very difficult place, one that seems to a problem in many marriages, unfortunately.

It definately seems to be your husband’s issue and not yours, and it sounds like you have identified the underlying problem. The task now is for him to overcome these issues, and for you to be as understanding as possible while he does. He obviously has some deep wounds in this area, and it may take some time for him to work through them. It’s very important that he at least try to work through them, IMO, for the sake of his own health and the health of the marriage. Sexual union with your spouse shouldn’t be something “icky” under any circumstances; he’s missing out and the marriage is suffering on a spiritual level.

Now I don’t think coaxing him into sex will ultimately solve the problem at all, although it may help you feel loved, and so long as it’s done in a respectful way that doesn’t dump salt on his wounds, I think it’s ok. Just remember his boundaries and physical limits, and try not to push too far too often. It really doesn’t sound like “spicing it up” is the way to go at all. For the time being, at least, it seems the opposite is in order.

What will ultimately help solve the problem is for him to have some kind of spiritual and emotional counseling, preferably from another married man who is Catholic (or at least puts the same value on sexual union in marriage). Perhaps if he’s able to discuss his problems in a semi-comfortable environment, he’ll be able to see how beatiful the sexual act, foreplay included, is. Maybe he just hasn’t had the opportunity to really confront the “ick” factor in an open manner, and relating to men in a comfortable environment who don’t have the same problem might help him to loosen the hold these emotional and spiritual constraints have on him.

Getting him to the point where he’s willing to confront these problems might be the biggest difficulty, but it’s important to remember that sexual union and love is an integral part of marriage, and you aren’t desiring anything perverse or unwarranted, anymore than desiring that he contribute financially to the household. Be sensitive, and remember that he IS hurting, but don’t let yourself feel unworthy of physical love and affection; such things are vital to a healthy and holistic marriage.

I’m no expert in this sort of problem, so other can likely give you better ideas. I just want to show my support and let you know that you and your husband are in my thoughts and prayers.
 
Thanks, guys, for the comforting words.

I think Ghosty nailed it when he said that my husband is really in need of a Catholic married man to sort of mentor him about marriage anyway. He grew up in a home where his parents slept in separate beds and were never civil to each other or very loving at all. They are still married in name only, but his father was definitely not an example of Catholic masculinity and his mother, to this day, still yells and screams about everything and anything to get her way. I am NOT a screamer or a yeller when I am upset. One thing my husband is very happy about is our ability to discuss things calmly and kindly, as it makes him feel safe and it doesn’t recall unpleasant childhood memories. However, his parents are a very sore subject and he is deeply wounded from their emotional abuse that went on, too.

Before he met me, back when he was having various sexual relationships with girlfriends, he was a frat boy and had numerous “non-Catholic” guy friends. He experienced a major re-version to the Church and subsequently lost literally all of his friends. I met him about two years into his reversion and aside from work friends, he was very without Catholic comraderie. He has friends at work, some older friends at Church, etc., but he does not have any single, young Catholic married men with whom he can speak to about his vocation of marriage.

We have couple friends, but they are not Catholic, and I know my husband would be mortified to discuss this stuff with a “regular ol’ guy” or colleague that we hang out with from time to time. Lately we have been limiting our contact with some of these friends anyway, as even though we are all in our late 20s or so, they are the type who still want to go out and be crazy on the weekends. That sort of thing is not our style, so it makes us uncomfortable to be around it now. It is not in line with our faith.

So, I think loneliness is a factor and simply having no Catholic friends with whom we could reach out to and talk about this with. I have good Catholic girlfriends who are single and unmarried, but I do NOT want to discuss this with them because they are still in fantasy mode about believing they will find the “perfect” person and live happily ever after with no conflict whatsoever. They would immediately latch onto this stuff as gossip, etc., and make me feel worse about it. Whenever my husband and I have had small conflicts in the past (nothing major), and I have confided about this or that, they all act like it’s the most frightening and abnormal thing ever, to have conflict in a marriage at times.

When we were having our discussion a couple nights ago about my body and women’s bodies in general, I made some comment about how, “you know, some husbands really enjoy touching their wives in that area, as for them it is a very special time to be intimate and appreciate their spouse for being an extension of his own body.” And he actually looked SURPRISED at the idea of enjoying it and not feeling coerced into doing so.

We have all the books that have been mentioned so far on this thread, but I appreciate and welcome the ideas.

I want to be clear that I love my husband very much. I have to admit that I have had some passing temptations during the last 48 hours of thinking about whether or not we would have any conditions for an annulment. In some ways I have a lot of resentment, because before we were married I specifically asked about sexual issues and he told me that “without a doubt” he was very able and excited to be a husband to me and participate in marital love. Had I known he had these issues, I am honestly not sure we would have gotten married–unless he had agreed to go to counseling and sort them out beforehand.

Is it wrong to have those thoughts? To feel cheated? I love this man SO much and it breaks my heart to think anything along the lines of, “Hmmm, I wouldn’t have married you had I known this wasn’t resolved.” I think it is my hurt at feeling deceived and/or cheated, and ultimately rejected inside my own marriage.

I hope this can be worked on. Does anyone think it will be solved? I’m sorry to keep rambling on and on, I just have no one to talk to about this and it makes me feel very alone.

Btw, I know I am married to him and even if I thought we had grounds for an annulment, I would stay with him just out of my deep and abiding love for him. He is my heart. I just want to stop thinking all my selfish thoughts about being cheated, etc.

Thank you to everyone who has written me so far. All of you are more comforting than you will ever know. Your kindness means so much.
 
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