J
jrabs
Guest
Hi. I am sending you a PM. I prayed for you last night and awoke at 4:45 this monring with you on my mind and maybe an idea - personal in nature.
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I_Need_Grace
Guest
jrabs said:
Thank you so much for your prayers! And suggestion.
I PM’d you back.
J
Journeyman
Guest
Check out catholictherapists.com/index.asp
Also, Greg and Lisa Popcak, who have written books and have a radio show, offer telephone counseling. They are both Catholic. This is their site—
exceptionalmarriages.com
Also, Greg and Lisa Popcak, who have written books and have a radio show, offer telephone counseling. They are both Catholic. This is their site—
exceptionalmarriages.com
G
Ghosty
Guest
I think it’s natural for you to have those thoughts. In an ideal world, these issues would have been worked out before and you still would have married him. As it stands, the preferred order is a bit out of whack, but the same things can still be accomplished. So you found out the hard way, at least you’re with the man you love and you’re willing to work on things with him, and hopefully he’s able and willing to work on things with you.
It sounds like he’s never really been exposed to many healthy relationships, sexual or otherwise. After reading your last post I definately think that it would help for him to be around happily married, and sexually active, men. Based on his apparent shock at your “revelation” that many men actually enjoy such activities, I’m led to believe that deep down he may not even realize that’s an option. I’m sure there’s more profound counseling that is required, but that’s a definate place to start. Sometimes just seeing (not literally, in this case
) and understanding that people enjoy it, and why, can be a big help. This holds true for many things in the human experience.
Good luck, and you’ll be in my prayers!
It sounds like he’s never really been exposed to many healthy relationships, sexual or otherwise. After reading your last post I definately think that it would help for him to be around happily married, and sexually active, men. Based on his apparent shock at your “revelation” that many men actually enjoy such activities, I’m led to believe that deep down he may not even realize that’s an option. I’m sure there’s more profound counseling that is required, but that’s a definate place to start. Sometimes just seeing (not literally, in this case
) and understanding that people enjoy it, and why, can be a big help. This holds true for many things in the human experience.Good luck, and you’ll be in my prayers!
G
goravens
Guest
(QUOTE) So, I think loneliness is a factor and simply having no Catholic friends with whom we could reach out to and talk about this with. I have good Catholic girlfriends who are single and unmarried, but I do NOT want to discuss this with them because they are still in fantasy mode about believing they will find the “perfect” person and live happily ever after with no conflict whatsoever. They would immediately latch onto this stuff as gossip, etc., and make me feel worse about it. Whenever my husband and I have had small conflicts in the past (nothing major), and I have confided about this or that, they all act like it’s the most frightening and abnormal thing ever, to have conflict in a marriage at times.
When we were having our discussion a couple nights ago about my body and women’s bodies in general, I made some comment about how, “you know, some husbands really enjoy touching their wives in that area, as for them it is a very special time to be intimate and appreciate their spouse for being an extension of his own body.” And he actually looked SURPRISED at the idea of enjoying it and not feeling coerced into doing so.
We have all the books that have been mentioned so far on this thread, but I appreciate and welcome the ideas.
I want to be clear that I love my husband very much. I have to admit that I have had some passing temptations during the last 48 hours of thinking about whether or not we would have any conditions for an annulment. In some ways I have a lot of resentment, because before we were married I specifically asked about sexual issues and he told me that “without a doubt” he was very able and excited to be a husband to me and participate in marital love. Had I known he had these issues, I am honestly not sure we would have gotten married–unless he had agreed to go to counseling and sort them out beforehand.
Is it wrong to have those thoughts? To feel cheated? I love this man SO much and it breaks my heart to think anything along the lines of, “Hmmm, I wouldn’t have married you had I known this wasn’t resolved.” I think it is my hurt at feeling deceived and/or cheated, and ultimately rejected inside my own marriage.
I hope this can be worked on. Does anyone think it will be solved? I’m sorry to keep rambling on and on, I just have no one to talk to about this and it makes me feel very alone.
Btw, I know I am married to him and even if I thought we had grounds for an annulment, I would stay with him just out of my deep and abiding love for him. He is my heart. I just want to stop thinking all my selfish thoughts about being cheated, etc.
Thank you to everyone who has written me so far. All of you are more comforting than you will ever know. Your kindness means so much.
I just wanted to let you know that my heart truly goes out to you in compassion. What you’re dealing with is difficult for many reasons, not the least of which that you have few Catholics for support. My husband and I are don’t know any Catholic couples and he too has few close friends who share similar convictions, so we both understand how difficult it can be without solid fellowship and support. What area of the country are you in ? Is there a local Catholic young adult group, Famlia or other Catholic organizations you could join? The importance of a good community can’t be understated.
I think in some cases, resolving sexuality issues can be more difficult than many other difficulties in a marriage simply because, if you waited prior to marriage, there was not much indication of expectations or potential problems in that area. In your case, your husband is dealing with some extra baggage he brought into your marriage that is still deeply affecting him. He will have to re-learn some behaviors that he originally learned to think of as bad, into something good and loving. It won’t be easy, but yes I think it can be done. I’d highly recommend checking into Greg Popcak’s site at www.exceptionalmarriages.com, which another poster recommended. He provides tele-counseling which may give your husband and you the anonymity needed. Plus, he’s a terrific Catholic marriage and family therapist.
I can certainly understand your feelings at this point and respect your recognition of love and marriage. This is the “for worse” part of your vows. Some things that could help would be offering up and uniting your emotional suffering to Christ’s suffering. Make it redemptive and fruitful - offer it up for your husband and his healing, even. And pray the Divine Mercy chaplet as a means of trust and love. That’s what I’d think of off the top of my head, and wish you much peace even in the difficult times. God bless.
When we were having our discussion a couple nights ago about my body and women’s bodies in general, I made some comment about how, “you know, some husbands really enjoy touching their wives in that area, as for them it is a very special time to be intimate and appreciate their spouse for being an extension of his own body.” And he actually looked SURPRISED at the idea of enjoying it and not feeling coerced into doing so.
We have all the books that have been mentioned so far on this thread, but I appreciate and welcome the ideas.
I want to be clear that I love my husband very much. I have to admit that I have had some passing temptations during the last 48 hours of thinking about whether or not we would have any conditions for an annulment. In some ways I have a lot of resentment, because before we were married I specifically asked about sexual issues and he told me that “without a doubt” he was very able and excited to be a husband to me and participate in marital love. Had I known he had these issues, I am honestly not sure we would have gotten married–unless he had agreed to go to counseling and sort them out beforehand.
Is it wrong to have those thoughts? To feel cheated? I love this man SO much and it breaks my heart to think anything along the lines of, “Hmmm, I wouldn’t have married you had I known this wasn’t resolved.” I think it is my hurt at feeling deceived and/or cheated, and ultimately rejected inside my own marriage.
I hope this can be worked on. Does anyone think it will be solved? I’m sorry to keep rambling on and on, I just have no one to talk to about this and it makes me feel very alone.
Btw, I know I am married to him and even if I thought we had grounds for an annulment, I would stay with him just out of my deep and abiding love for him. He is my heart. I just want to stop thinking all my selfish thoughts about being cheated, etc.
Thank you to everyone who has written me so far. All of you are more comforting than you will ever know. Your kindness means so much.
I just wanted to let you know that my heart truly goes out to you in compassion. What you’re dealing with is difficult for many reasons, not the least of which that you have few Catholics for support. My husband and I are don’t know any Catholic couples and he too has few close friends who share similar convictions, so we both understand how difficult it can be without solid fellowship and support. What area of the country are you in ? Is there a local Catholic young adult group, Famlia or other Catholic organizations you could join? The importance of a good community can’t be understated.
I think in some cases, resolving sexuality issues can be more difficult than many other difficulties in a marriage simply because, if you waited prior to marriage, there was not much indication of expectations or potential problems in that area. In your case, your husband is dealing with some extra baggage he brought into your marriage that is still deeply affecting him. He will have to re-learn some behaviors that he originally learned to think of as bad, into something good and loving. It won’t be easy, but yes I think it can be done. I’d highly recommend checking into Greg Popcak’s site at www.exceptionalmarriages.com, which another poster recommended. He provides tele-counseling which may give your husband and you the anonymity needed. Plus, he’s a terrific Catholic marriage and family therapist.
I can certainly understand your feelings at this point and respect your recognition of love and marriage. This is the “for worse” part of your vows. Some things that could help would be offering up and uniting your emotional suffering to Christ’s suffering. Make it redemptive and fruitful - offer it up for your husband and his healing, even. And pray the Divine Mercy chaplet as a means of trust and love. That’s what I’d think of off the top of my head, and wish you much peace even in the difficult times. God bless.
S
Steve_Andersen
Guest
I Need Grace:
Not to be graphic but he should be like a pig rooting for truffles
IfyouknowwhatImean
I Need Grace:
Even the pre marriage conversation
No it is not wrong to have feelings
You can’t control your feelings…only what you do about them
While it is not a PC opinion in these parts “try before you buy” does have some practical benefits
In all Charity…this guy has issues
Not to be graphic but he should be like a pig rooting for truffles
IfyouknowwhatImean
I Need Grace:
I’ve been there and done that
Even the pre marriage conversation
No it is not wrong to have feelings
You can’t control your feelings…only what you do about them
While it is not a PC opinion in these parts “try before you buy” does have some practical benefits
I
Island_Oak
Guest
Oooohhhh…the moderators are going to get you!!!
S
Steve_Andersen
Guest
story of my life 
B
BlestOne
Guest
My Dear “Need Grace,”
I too went through a very unsatisfying marital relationship. I hope your turns out better than mine did! I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy if I had one. I can only tell you what I learned from that experience. When my husband and I met I was 21 he was 26. Immediately, I noticed that he did not pressure me for sex. I took this for respect and fell head over heels in love with the man. We cuddled, we talked, and even at times spent in the same bed before we were married, but we did not have sex. I thought this was wonderful at the time. I really thought that this man truly respected me. After about 10 months of dating we were married. Lo and behold, I was ready to have a fantastic marital relationship with him, the problem was…he wasn’t. I was patient, I listened as he told me of some very sad experiences he had, and I too was fastidiously hygenic. He was so concerned that I had never been with another or had a child that he actually “checked” me (he was a nurse), which I took for him wanting to really start over and do things right. How I wish that was the case!!! I was disappointed that during our first year of marriage I could count the number of times we had sex on my 2 hands. As time went on I tried to figure out why he was like this, was it me? Was I doing something displeasing? (Please never fall into this trap as I did). I tried everything I could think of: talking didn’t work, wearing nighties that I thought would please him didn’t work…so I thought long and hard how I could overcome this. Eventually I told him that I thought we needed to “try” to get pregnant since we hadn’t been sucessful thus far. When we did have sex, it was wonderful, that is until it ended and he went back to ignoring me. He always seemed exhausted too… Well, we did get pregnant and had a son, for a while when I was pregnant our sex life improved. After our son was born we weren’t able to have sex for 4 months due to a radical episiotomy. After that was better, I looked forward to being with him again…only it didn’t happen. After a while I noticed that “it” only happened on holidays. I tried to talk to him about it but that just made it worse, now he was so conscious that we didn’t even have sex on holidays. I was so depressed, still thinking that I was doing something wrong, or at least not appealing enough for him. Well, I guess some folks have to learn the hard way so I brought up my desire for another child. We had sex once a month until I got pregnant. So things got pretty rocky needless to say. When I was 2 months pregnant he started drinking heavily and left. At about 4 months I found out it was twins!!! When I told him he called me a liar and said I was just trying to get him back. I was heartbroken! Well, he ran out of money and came back. Silly me thought he really wanted to be there. It still good that he came back, I spent most of that pregnancy in the hospital and lost one of my twins. I really needed his support but he seemed to fall apart more than I did. I took this for genuine caring and love that he was so broken up about losing our child just before birth. I became severely depressed but I knew I had to carry on for the sake of my children. I told myself that when he was better I would take the time I needed to mourn for my precious child. On my second son’s first birthday, I realized that I was never going to get the chance if I waited for my husband to be through his period of mourning. I became angry, we still hadn’t had sex since the birth and now he was a year old, we were growing further apart. I blamed myself, I went through all the if only’s…You know, if only our child had lived, if only I ate better during my pregnancy. If only I was a good enough wife I could help him though this. If only I was more attractive he would want me more. The fact is, the only “if only” I should have considered was, if only I could convince him to get help, but I really needed help too. I went to a christian counsellor who promptly reinforced that everything was all my fault. I was not considering his frail male ego when I worked to pay all the bills (he couldn’t find a job). I should let him have all the control of the money. I should be patient and not bring up my insecurities and burden him with those…etc. So I went on my not so merry way. We went for over 14 months after the second child before we had relations again. This time, I got pregnant on the first try. I was so scared after all we had gone through that if anything happened he wouldn’t ever recover. So during my 3rd pregnancy, he finally told me that he didn’t love me and never had. I suppose I should have known he wasn’t capable of intimacy or love. continued in next post**
I too went through a very unsatisfying marital relationship. I hope your turns out better than mine did! I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy if I had one. I can only tell you what I learned from that experience. When my husband and I met I was 21 he was 26. Immediately, I noticed that he did not pressure me for sex. I took this for respect and fell head over heels in love with the man. We cuddled, we talked, and even at times spent in the same bed before we were married, but we did not have sex. I thought this was wonderful at the time. I really thought that this man truly respected me. After about 10 months of dating we were married. Lo and behold, I was ready to have a fantastic marital relationship with him, the problem was…he wasn’t. I was patient, I listened as he told me of some very sad experiences he had, and I too was fastidiously hygenic. He was so concerned that I had never been with another or had a child that he actually “checked” me (he was a nurse), which I took for him wanting to really start over and do things right. How I wish that was the case!!! I was disappointed that during our first year of marriage I could count the number of times we had sex on my 2 hands. As time went on I tried to figure out why he was like this, was it me? Was I doing something displeasing? (Please never fall into this trap as I did). I tried everything I could think of: talking didn’t work, wearing nighties that I thought would please him didn’t work…so I thought long and hard how I could overcome this. Eventually I told him that I thought we needed to “try” to get pregnant since we hadn’t been sucessful thus far. When we did have sex, it was wonderful, that is until it ended and he went back to ignoring me. He always seemed exhausted too… Well, we did get pregnant and had a son, for a while when I was pregnant our sex life improved. After our son was born we weren’t able to have sex for 4 months due to a radical episiotomy. After that was better, I looked forward to being with him again…only it didn’t happen. After a while I noticed that “it” only happened on holidays. I tried to talk to him about it but that just made it worse, now he was so conscious that we didn’t even have sex on holidays. I was so depressed, still thinking that I was doing something wrong, or at least not appealing enough for him. Well, I guess some folks have to learn the hard way so I brought up my desire for another child. We had sex once a month until I got pregnant. So things got pretty rocky needless to say. When I was 2 months pregnant he started drinking heavily and left. At about 4 months I found out it was twins!!! When I told him he called me a liar and said I was just trying to get him back. I was heartbroken! Well, he ran out of money and came back. Silly me thought he really wanted to be there. It still good that he came back, I spent most of that pregnancy in the hospital and lost one of my twins. I really needed his support but he seemed to fall apart more than I did. I took this for genuine caring and love that he was so broken up about losing our child just before birth. I became severely depressed but I knew I had to carry on for the sake of my children. I told myself that when he was better I would take the time I needed to mourn for my precious child. On my second son’s first birthday, I realized that I was never going to get the chance if I waited for my husband to be through his period of mourning. I became angry, we still hadn’t had sex since the birth and now he was a year old, we were growing further apart. I blamed myself, I went through all the if only’s…You know, if only our child had lived, if only I ate better during my pregnancy. If only I was a good enough wife I could help him though this. If only I was more attractive he would want me more. The fact is, the only “if only” I should have considered was, if only I could convince him to get help, but I really needed help too. I went to a christian counsellor who promptly reinforced that everything was all my fault. I was not considering his frail male ego when I worked to pay all the bills (he couldn’t find a job). I should let him have all the control of the money. I should be patient and not bring up my insecurities and burden him with those…etc. So I went on my not so merry way. We went for over 14 months after the second child before we had relations again. This time, I got pregnant on the first try. I was so scared after all we had gone through that if anything happened he wouldn’t ever recover. So during my 3rd pregnancy, he finally told me that he didn’t love me and never had. I suppose I should have known he wasn’t capable of intimacy or love. continued in next post**
B
BlestOne
Guest
Continued from above****
Turns out that my husband couldn’t feel emotions like love because he had some severe mental problems. He hated himself, which made intimacy so unbearable for him that he found it necessary to find any excuse to avoid it. Well, I had a beautiful little girl and a broken heart. I stayed with him because I felt that I had made my bed… I didn’t even consider divorce, I just resigned myself to a very lonely life devoid of any marital affection. When my little girl was turning 4 things started to get really bad. Not all his fault I am ashamed to say. I started to become more agressive about “discussing” our sexual problem. He started to lay all the blame on me. I was too agressive, demanding, even masculine. The funny part is I still believed him. I thought I was the most unworthy ugly person in the world. When he told me that he couldn’t go to mass with me anymore because he didn’t consider himself a christian anymore, I didn’t think I could take anymore. Apparently, he decided that he was a high priest in the pagan worshipping community. But as usual, somehow it was all my fault. I considered my life worthless and but for the grace of God and my own cowardice…really I didn’t want to live like that anymore. As my youngest approached her 5th birthday I got more confrontational about things like the decreasing amout of money he was contributing to our home. So he told me he was leaving. I did the typical female thing: “No, what about the children” so he stayed. Then it happened again with the same results. The third time it happened I finally had been seeking help so I told him that he needed to do what he needed to do. Now he was trapped…he had been using that to control me and he had lost control. Well he left, still I didn’t divorce him for another year and a half when I realized that it was never me, it was him controlling me. He controlled me by withholding sex, he controlled me by telling me everything was my fault even telling me how ugly I was …and I fell for it! You know the funny thing? I bet you formed a mental picture of me something like this: Not very attractive, probably pretty “frumpy” and masculine. Thats even how I saw myself…truth is, I was a model, slim, tall, and even pretty . I am still a very attractive person. This is how badly I let a mentally ill person control and almost destroy my life. I only wish I could have helped him to get the help he needed. Now for the good part…I spent years recovering from all of this. I figured out who I am and what I want in life. My kids are 18, 15, and 13. And I finally like me. I prayed alot, I sought help from a wonderful counsellor at Catholic Charities. And now, after 8 yrs of getting myself back, I have met a man who shares my love of God, family and children and we are getting married this summer. You better believe we have talked about our view on sex and although we have not had sex, we are both looking forward to a healthy marital relationship. I truly pray you don’t go through even a fraction of what I had to go through to learn that the best thing you can do is to seek counselling (individually and together) to find a way for both of you to have a complete and fulfilling marriage. God Bless you I will keep you in my prayers.
Turns out that my husband couldn’t feel emotions like love because he had some severe mental problems. He hated himself, which made intimacy so unbearable for him that he found it necessary to find any excuse to avoid it. Well, I had a beautiful little girl and a broken heart. I stayed with him because I felt that I had made my bed… I didn’t even consider divorce, I just resigned myself to a very lonely life devoid of any marital affection. When my little girl was turning 4 things started to get really bad. Not all his fault I am ashamed to say. I started to become more agressive about “discussing” our sexual problem. He started to lay all the blame on me. I was too agressive, demanding, even masculine. The funny part is I still believed him. I thought I was the most unworthy ugly person in the world. When he told me that he couldn’t go to mass with me anymore because he didn’t consider himself a christian anymore, I didn’t think I could take anymore. Apparently, he decided that he was a high priest in the pagan worshipping community. But as usual, somehow it was all my fault. I considered my life worthless and but for the grace of God and my own cowardice…really I didn’t want to live like that anymore. As my youngest approached her 5th birthday I got more confrontational about things like the decreasing amout of money he was contributing to our home. So he told me he was leaving. I did the typical female thing: “No, what about the children” so he stayed. Then it happened again with the same results. The third time it happened I finally had been seeking help so I told him that he needed to do what he needed to do. Now he was trapped…he had been using that to control me and he had lost control. Well he left, still I didn’t divorce him for another year and a half when I realized that it was never me, it was him controlling me. He controlled me by withholding sex, he controlled me by telling me everything was my fault even telling me how ugly I was …and I fell for it! You know the funny thing? I bet you formed a mental picture of me something like this: Not very attractive, probably pretty “frumpy” and masculine. Thats even how I saw myself…truth is, I was a model, slim, tall, and even pretty . I am still a very attractive person. This is how badly I let a mentally ill person control and almost destroy my life. I only wish I could have helped him to get the help he needed. Now for the good part…I spent years recovering from all of this. I figured out who I am and what I want in life. My kids are 18, 15, and 13. And I finally like me. I prayed alot, I sought help from a wonderful counsellor at Catholic Charities. And now, after 8 yrs of getting myself back, I have met a man who shares my love of God, family and children and we are getting married this summer. You better believe we have talked about our view on sex and although we have not had sex, we are both looking forward to a healthy marital relationship. I truly pray you don’t go through even a fraction of what I had to go through to learn that the best thing you can do is to seek counselling (individually and together) to find a way for both of you to have a complete and fulfilling marriage. God Bless you I will keep you in my prayers.
J
JustSomeGuy
Guest
Steve Andersen:
look up the word ‘decorum’, and grow up. IfyouknowwhatImean
something tells me you wouldn’t know charity if came up and bit you in the ***.
what is the matter with you? have a little respect, if not for yourself, then for the people that have the misfortune of encountering you.
look up the word ‘decorum’, and grow up. IfyouknowwhatImean
something tells me you wouldn’t know charity if came up and bit you in the ***.
S
Steve_Andersen
Guest
I admit I was out of line
I apologize
This is just an issue that is a little close to a nerve for me
Sometimes when strong emotions are involved the fingers type when they should stay still
While I’m the first to admit that I’m an arrogant, opinionated man. But uncharitable………? I certainly hope not.
I apologize
This is just an issue that is a little close to a nerve for me
Sometimes when strong emotions are involved the fingers type when they should stay still
While I’m the first to admit that I’m an arrogant, opinionated man. But uncharitable………? I certainly hope not.
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