Misplaced blame

[jenlovesyu]

I am a part of this generation as well but by NO means do I support the idea that my parents are responsible for any of my mistakes. Or that other people’s parents are responsible for theirs.

What I learned up until this point is that well, YOU reap what YOU sow. No excuses, but’s, or what if’s. Never blame someone else for your mistakes or problems. You wont improve any by doing so.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

FlyingFish, what you are saying flies in the face of 2000 years of Catholic teaching about free will and intellect. There are many instances of children of good people who grew up in great environments who became horrible. And kids raised in hideous circumstances of bad parents who grew up to be wonderful and saintly and responsible.

Your equation leaves out the power of God, free will, intellect, the world, the flesh and the devil.

 

[flyingfish]

FlyingFish, what you are saying flies in the face of 2000 years of Catholic teaching about free will and intellect. There are many instances of children of good people who grew up in great environments who became horrible. And kids raised in hideous circumstances of bad parents who grew up to be wonderful and saintly and responsible.

Your equation leaves out the power of God, free will, intellect, the world, the flesh and the devil.

I don’t think free will means being able to do anything. God knows what we will do anyway, so that already tells you something about the kind of free will we have. Free will as I understand it are just actions that come from within our organisms, as opposed to something forced on us externally. Since God knows what we will do, it makes no sense for us to act in any other way than what God already knows.

Also bad environments may affect two people differently, and no amount of good environments will “fix” some people’s biology.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Just because God knows what you will do and how your story ends doesn’t take away your free will.

You have to remember, HE is operating outside of time and space. He IS.

He already knows what will happen, like a movie he’s seen the end of because He doesn’t live in limited time like we do.

But we, in time and space, are living it out in “real time.” We can’t step outside of time like God, and from a perch in Eternity know the ending.

 

[flyingfish]

Just because God knows what you will do and how your story ends doesn’t take away your free will.

You have to remember, HE is operating outside of time and space. He IS.

He already knows what will happen, like a movie he’s seen the end of because He doesn’t live in limited time like we do.

But we, in time and space, are living it out in “real time.” We can’t step outside of time like God, and from a perch in Eternity know the ending.

Do you believe then that you could do the opposite of what God knows you will do? That would mean God is not omniscient, because his knowledge would have been wrong.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

You’re looking at it backwards. There is nothing God doesn’t know.

No matter what you do, He knew it. He knit you in your mother’s womb. He knows when you sit and when you stand.

Here’s a bad and inadequate example:

You know your child. Maybe better than that young child knows herself/himself. You put a marshmallow on the counter and tell the child not to touch it. The child has free will. You, as the parent, know the child is going to take it when you aren’t looking.

Your other child, you know, is a more obedient type. You know what choice that child will make. Even before the child makes it. The child leaves the marshmallow on the counter.

Knowing what each child was going to do because you are the omniscient parent in no way impedes the free choice of the child.

Now, imagine a videocamera in the room.

Four years later you play the video. You already know how it ends. You are outside the time and place as you watch it. You know which choice each child made. But that in no way changes the freedom of each child to decide what to do about the marshmallow at the time they made their choice.

Flimsy allegory, but that’s the best I can do.

 

[Kindness]

I’m no expert, but FlyingFish I believe your theories fit better with Calvinist concepts of predetermination than Catholic theology.

Your theories seem very pessimistic and lack hope if you believe people are at the mercy of their biology and upbringing. Why would hope be a Catholic virtue if it is pointless?

 

[cmscms]

I really don’t know if parenting has changed that much over the years in comparison as to how society has changed over the years.

For example, I find it shocking that people will tell their children to call me by my first name instead of introducing me as Miss (insert my last name). My parents NEVER would have dreamed of letting me call an adult by their first name.

However, if a parent was to teach their kid to refer to an adult by their title and last name, most adults I know would be offended. So the question is ‘Did parents really change’ or are ‘Are parents adapting to the times?’

Regardless, I do think the way children are being brought up is sad. The things they see on TV. Being plopped in day care so people can afford the finer things in life. (supposedly finner things) and the divorced rate does not break my heart half as much as kids seeing mommy’s boyfriend spend the night.

Does it damage kids ‘Yes’ does it give a 20 year old an excuse to be irresponsible ‘No’. I remember being 20 and finding it very hurtfull that older adults had no compassion for the younger generation. Now that I am 40, I must admit, I have had it with trying to help younger people who don’t help themselves.

Bottom line is, there will always be suffering regardless of what age you are. God is the best one to help

CM

 

[Nec5]

Your theories seem very pessimistic and lack hope if you believe people are at the mercy of their biology and upbringing. Why would hope be a Catholic virtue if it is pointless?

They are at the mercy of their upbringing to an incredibly large degree. Are there cases where people raised by solid parents turn away? Sure. However, these are rarities when you actually examine a person’s childhood/upbringing and his/her current beliefs. Again, it’s biblical, Freudian, and common sense.

Biology may play a part, but I don’t give it much weight when people contemplate morality.

The amazing part is that Christ offers a chance to break from the habitualized madness that so many have experienced.

And yes, parenting has greatly changed over the last 50 years. Dr. Spock and the other progressives have spread the “everything is gray” mantra, and parents no longer instill discipline. This is precisely why the culture has degraded and good and evil have been reversed.