Missa benedictus qui venit

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Forgive me if this has been posted - I looked and didn’t see anything, but the other day I stumbled upon this page, which is promoting a new mass setting written for the upcoming World Youth Day. What’s interesting about it, though, is that it uses the new ICEL translation for everything but the Memorial Acclimation. It gives one a glimpse at what the new texts are like set to music.

Most of the sound files are on the second page, and the setting does make use of a little Latin.
 
Rabbititus said:
Forgive me if this has been posted - I looked and didn’t see anything, but the other day I stumbled upon this page, which is promoting a new mass setting written for the upcoming World Youth Day. What’s interesting about it, though, is that it uses the new ICEL translation for everything but the Memorial Acclimation. It gives one a glimpse at what the new texts are like set to music.

Most of the sound files are on the second page, and the setting does make use of a little Latin.
Click to expand...
How would you know whether or not it’s the new ICEL translation if it has only been released for the bishops’ conferences eyes only? The only translations I’ve seen are the Confiteor and the Credo. That’s only because an ebay vendor was putting a bootleg version out for bids. From what I could tell, it resembles the 1969 English edition of the Roman Missal.

It would also seem rather odd that the Aussies would be using something that’s not even have the recognitio. I don’t think Pope Benedict’s liturgical team would approve.

I have heard some of the pieces and they are far superior to what was used during WYD 2005. I do think, however, that they are using the current ICEL versions, along with smatterings of Latin thrown in for good measure. Granted, I wasn’t there physically, but, I watched the Mass via television. Incidentally, I try not to miss any of Pope Benedict’s televised Masses.

I am downloading the congregational booklet for the WYD 2008 Mass settings. However, it’s taking a very long time to download.:mad:
 
There have been leaked versions of the new translations (at least of the various draft versions) for a while, as well as bits and pieces in news articles. A lot of the complete drafts were pulled right after being put online, but if you poke about a lot of Catholic blogs you’ll find all sorts of chunks from it - including the new Gloria and Sanctus, and these sound recordings match the new versions. The new Gloria has even popped up on Wikipedia, and the leaked translation of the Sanctus is “Holy is the Lord God of Hosts.”

Perhaps they got permission to use the new draft versions for World Youth Day - using the opportunity to help introduce people to at least part of the new ICEL translation.
 
I know a Catholic composer who was given the new translations last year to start working on musical settings for them. This makes perfect sense to me because the bishops want to have certain things ready before they put the translations into use. However, I would note that when he had the choir sing a draft version that he was very careful to get each and every copy back from us as soon as we sang through it. I believe that the people who have been given the advance copies were told not to give them out to the public at large.
 
Been meaning to post this for a while, and was prompted by the new thread mentioning the WYD Mass setting.

Anyone listened to it? Your thoughts?

On balance, I’m a little underwhelmed, so I’m interested to see how it struck other people.

A quick list of my pros and cons … prefaced by the disclaimer that I’ve only listened to it twice, so my opinion may yet change.

Pros (IMO):
  • Cute title. Ha ha. 😛
  • Introduces some Latin to many who won’t have encountered it before, in a way that makes the meaning obvious. No “fright factor” involved.
  • guitar and piano accompaniments are provided. Whether or not you like guitar or piano, having these settings as teaching aides greatly increases the chances of young people learning it in their church groups or being taught it in schools in preparation for WYD. It puts correct and usable music into the hands of musicians of all stripes and avoids the issue of unprovided-for/less-capable musicians bodgying up something from an organ part. :eek:
  • Ditto for providing audio files – singers/players who don’t read well or at all, and even the folks at home, can learn it accurately.
  • The guitar chords look like they’ve been prepared by someone with a clue about guitar, and the guitar and keyboard accompaniments match. (It’s obvious when a musician/editor thinks they can write for guitar, even just chords, without any actual knowledge of the instrument. IMO it’s also poor practice to produce keyboard and guitar editions that are incompatible, due to the editors’ lack of knowledge and/or intentional dumbing-down of the guitar part. :mad: )
  • The vocal ranges are reasonable, even in the cantor’s parts. I’d normally avoid pushing my congregation to Eb but for an occasion when I know they’ll sing their heads off, they will go that far (as long as they were allowed to learn the melody securely at a more comfortable pitch first).
  • Three cheers for releasing it well in advance so that people can study it beforehand rather than be left trying to mumble along on the day. :clapping:
Cons (again, IMO):
  • Where did some of the text come from? I wouldn’t have thought “creative wording” would get past Cardinal Pell or some of the others I know are involved, never mind the Pope. Or have I missed something? :hmmm:
  • Haven’t chorus-verse Gloria settings been sternly warned against for years? :confused:
  • Not keen on the rhythmic figure of the Gloria response – the opening two triplets make you expect 12/8 rather than 4/4. A small detail, folks will learn it OK by ear if they’re taught clearly, but I wouldn’t write a rhythmic figure like that into a congregational part. 🤷
  • Gospel Acclamation? There’s a gap corresponding to it in the audio filename numbers so I assume there’s meant to be one but it’d be nice to have the complete setting released all at once.
  • Sure it will be a solemn occasion but the setting left me feeling … faintly depressed and downbeat, to be honest. It could have been a little more joyful without loss of reverence or solemnity. (Please note that my natural preference is for rather melancholy music!) 😦
  • Whilst I know great music doesn’t always deliver up its treasures immediately, I don’t find this the most memorable, intuitive or interesting of settings. There are things in it I like but taken in at one sitting, the word "waffly” keeps coming to mind. It’s a good thing they’ve released it early and provided audio files because it may take a little while to click for some people.
Again, opinions only, based on two listenings. What do you think?
 
benedictgal said:
How would you know whether or not it’s the new ICEL translation if it has only been released for the bishops’ conferences eyes only? The only translations I’ve seen are the Confiteor and the Credo. That’s only because an ebay vendor was putting a bootleg version out for bids. From what I could tell, it resembles the 1969 English edition of the Roman Missal.
Click to expand...
The ICEL Ordinary of the Mass Gray Book was issued 2 years ago. It’s not a stretch to figure out that that has already been approved and that composers are at work as we speak composing settings for it.
 
Guitar said:
Cons (again, IMO):
  • Where did some of the text come from? I wouldn’t have thought “creative wording” would get past Cardinal Pell or some of the others I know are involved, never mind the Pope. Or have I missed something? :hmmm:
Again, opinions only, based on two listenings. What do you think?
Click to expand...
I suspect that, since ICEL submitted the Gray Book on the Ordinary of Mass 2 years ago, Rome has already accepted the translation and gave it to the composer of the WYD 2008 Mass.
 
Bear in mind that just because guitar sheet music has been provided doesn’t necessarily mean that guitars will be used at WYD 2008. Remember, Pope Benedict will be the celebrant.

I heard the pieces and they are much better than the stuff that was played at WYD 2005. Even though the previous WYD used Latin, the settings sounded too much like Peter Gabriel’s In Your Eyes and did not mix well with the language.

Young people need to be introduced to solemnity. The music needs to bring them into contact with something greater than themselves at a deeper level.
 
benedictgal said:
It would also seem rather odd that the Aussies would be using something that’s not even have the recognitio. I don’t think Pope Benedict’s liturgical team would approve.:
Click to expand...
Papal Masses are organized under the auspices of the Papal Office, specifically the Papal Master of Ceremonies (Monsignor Guido Marini)

So it is probably the Papal liturgical team that is driving the use of the newer text.
 
Digitonomy - correct.

Phemie - thank you, I didn’t know that as I haven’t been “keeping tabs” on it. All I know about translations is that you can’t buy the Graduale round here as reprints are off till new translations are available.
benedictgal said:
Bear in mind that just because guitar sheet music has been provided doesn’t necessarily mean that guitars will be used at WYD 2008. Remember, Pope Benedict will be the celebrant.
Click to expand...
Note that I did not infer that they would. To release the setting only with organ accompaniment, however, would not be overly helpful in terms of prior learning, given the current “state of the nation”. Good organists are in short supply and I doubt youth groups and schools are exactly awash with them.

I don’t know what was used for the last WYD and I happily to take your word for it that this is better. I also agree that young people need to be introduced to solemnity. (Particularly one Bright Young Thing from my parish that I know will be making the trip. 😉 ) Solemnity and appropriately-expressed joy are not incompatible though and I wonder whether the balance is in quite the right place with this one.

I had high hopes for a robust, memorable setting and came away thinking … well, it’s OK … it’s competent … it’ll do the job … and I was wondering whether I’d missed something and whether it struck others differently.

Is “better than last time” “good enough”? Sometimes it has to be. That wasn’t my question though - what do you think of it on its own merits?
 
Guitar said:
Digitonomy - correct.

Phemie - thank you, I didn’t know that as I haven’t been “keeping tabs” on it. All I know about translations is that you can’t buy the Graduale round here as reprints are off till new translations are available.

Note that I did not infer that they would. To release the setting only with organ accompaniment, however, would not be overly helpful in terms of prior learning, given the current “state of the nation”. Good organists are in short supply and I doubt youth groups and schools are exactly awash with them.

I don’t know what was used for the last WYD and I happily to take your word for it that this is better. I also agree that young people need to be introduced to solemnity. (Particularly one Bright Young Thing from my parish that I know will be making the trip. 😉 ) Solemnity and appropriately-expressed joy are not incompatible though and I wonder whether the balance is in quite the right place with this one.

I had high hopes for a robust, memorable setting and came away thinking … well, it’s OK … it’s competent … it’ll do the job … and I was wondering whether I’d missed something and whether it struck others differently.

Is “better than last time” “good enough”? Sometimes it has to be. That wasn’t my question though - what do you think of it on its own merits?
Click to expand...
On its own, it’s not quite what I expected, but, it’s a lot better than the settings in Spirit and Song that my parish has to sing every Sunday at the midday Mass. It is also better than the other stuff that OCP churns out. Interestingly enough, OCP has its tentacles reaching Down Under. I’m curious if the composer has any connection to OCP. If he does, maybe, just maybe we’re finally going to turn a corner.

I’ve heard the sound clips and they have a quasi-Gregorian sound with a pinch of contemporary to it. It’s a good blend. It reminds me a little of Fr. Schiavone’s “Amen”, the bilingual communion hymn. That’s one of the very few new pieces from OCP that I like.

There is one correction to the planning of this Mass. Cardinal Arinze noted that it’s not always the Holy Father’s call on stuff that happens during abroad Papal Masses:
Somebody can say, “but the pope visited this county and the people danced”. A moment: Did the pope arrange it? Poor Holy Father – he comes, the people arranged. He does not know what they arranged. And somebody introduces something funny – is the pope responsible for that? Does that mean it is now approved? Did they put in on the table of the Congregation for Divine Worship? We would throw it out! If people want to dance, they know where to go.
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Now, even though the good cardinal was referring to “liturgical dance”, I suspect that false creativity makes a sneak attack when no one expects it. Hopefully, that won’t be the case this time around.
 
benedictgal said:
Now, even though the good cardinal was referring to “liturgical dance”, I suspect that false creativity makes a sneak attack when no one expects it. Hopefully, that won’t be the case this time around.
Click to expand...
It’s unlikely, given Cardinal Pell and Fr Peter Williams are involved.
 
jc-servant said:
I know a Catholic composer who was given the new translations last year to start working on musical settings for them. This makes perfect sense to me because the bishops want to have certain things ready before they put the translations into use. However, I would note that when he had the choir sing a draft version that he was very careful to get each and every copy back from us as soon as we sang through it. I believe that the people who have been given the advance copies were told not to give them out to the public at large.
Click to expand...
So… how do the new translations sound when put to music? :bounce:
 
peregrinus_sg said:
So… how do the new translations sound when put to music? :bounce:
Click to expand...
What we have heard thus far sounded very nice. There are probably some people who will never hear these arrangements or even want to check them out because my friend writes for OCP. However, they are not in the modern, P&W style or the '70s folksy style either. Pretty traditional choral works.

He is working on a Gloria that has the harmonies built around the alto part instead of giving us what I always say are the “left over” notes in the chords. No stretching for notes that are too high or low for my section for once. Yipee!

It was funny when we sang through the first time sightreading the music. As soon as we finished all of the altos looked at each other and started smiling.
 
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