Missing Baptismal Records (Lack of Form)

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Hi – I’m new. Here’s my problem. I was an atheist until a conversion 2 1/2 yr.s ago. I am in the process of joining the Church. I have never been baptized. My husband was married and divorced twice before he married me. He was baptized Lutheran (and has been an agnostic since he was a teenager). He is not interested in joining the Church but is supporting my quest. His first marriage was to a Catholic woman (Peggy) – they were not married in the Church and so my husband will submit a “Lack of Form” petition soon. I have been collecting the necessary documents. In trying to obtain Peggy’s baptismal certificate I have contacted the two parishes of the city in which she was born. One of the parishes has no record of her – I am still waiting to hear from the other parish. My question is: What do I do if neither parish can find her records? At this point in time, Peggy is battling cancer for a second time and is dealing with so many things right now. Even though she has been a close friend for 20 years, she was very upset by the idea of her marriage being declared “Null”. Peggy will not help us with the process. I know her mother Kay – unfortunately, Kay has just suffered a stroke and is unable to communicate at this time. Please tell me if you can think of any other way for me to establish that my husband’s first wife was baptized.
Thanks!
 
Have you tried contacting the archdioces. Some archdioces have archived records and some don’t.
 
No – I haven’t tried that yet! Do you think that the records might be there even though the parish office has checked the books and has no record of the Baptism?
 
If its in the LA area then the individual parish keep the baptismal record. You can submit the lack of form case with a place and date of Baptism.
 
It is unfortunate, but sometimes baptisms are not recorded, for a variety of reasons ranging from the baptism having been celebrated in the hospital to the priest simply forgetting to record all the baptisms he celebrated on a specific day. I’ve run into that in my own parish more often than I care to remember. When that occurs it is simply a matter of the parents (or anyone who was present) giving an affidavit to the effect that the baptism did occur.

Other than her mother, does Peggy have any relatives who might help you by witnessing to the fact of her baptism? Her godparents, perhaps?
 
MathChick said:
Hi – I’m new. Here’s my problem. I was an atheist until a conversion 2 1/2 yr.s ago. I am in the process of joining the Church. I have never been baptized. My husband was married and divorced twice before he married me. He was baptized Lutheran (and has been an agnostic since he was a teenager). He is not interested in joining the Church but is supporting my quest. His first marriage was to a Catholic woman (Peggy) – they were not married in the Church and so my husband will submit a “Lack of Form” petition soon. I have been collecting the necessary documents. In trying to obtain Peggy’s baptismal certificate I have contacted the two parishes of the city in which she was born. One of the parishes has no record of her – I am still waiting to hear from the other parish. My question is: What do I do if neither parish can find her records? At this point in time, Peggy is battling cancer for a second time and is dealing with so many things right now. Even though she has been a close friend for 20 years, she was very upset by the idea of her marriage being declared “Null”. Peggy will not help us with the process. I know her mother Kay – unfortunately, Kay has just suffered a stroke and is unable to communicate at this time. Please tell me if you can think of any other way for me to establish that my husband’s first wife was baptized.
Thanks!
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I’m not understanding something here. Your husband was never a Catholic. Nor was he ever married in a Catholic Church. One of his previous wives was the Catholic. So what is it that you have to prove in order to be married in the Catholic Church? What are they asking you to prove?

I’m thinking here. I guess there is one possibility.
  1. Prove that the marriage was not valid becaue of disaparity of cult. Had his wife been Lutheran the marriage would have been valid, if they had been married in their faith.
I’m still confused. Who is asking for all of this and have they explained why?

Maybe you need to talk to your priest or deacon again.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
JReducation said:
I’m not understanding something here. Your husband was never a Catholic. Nor was he ever married in a Catholic Church. One of his previous wives was the Catholic. So what is it that you have to prove in order to be married in the Catholic Church? What are they asking you to prove?

I’m thinking here. I guess there is one possibility.
  1. Prove that the marriage was not valid becaue of disaparity of cult. Had his wife been Lutheran the marriage would have been valid, if they had been married in their faith.
I’m still confused. Who is asking for all of this and have they explained why?

Maybe you need to talk to your priest or deacon again.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
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If they can prove her husband’s ex-wife was baptized Catholic then his marriage to her would have been invalid due to Lack of canonical form. That means that instead of a full blown investigation for a decree of nullity there is a simple, “Due to lack of form this marriage was never presumed valid.”
 
The baptism may have taken place elsewhere. It seems that you are contacting two parishes because of their proximity to her birthplace, but the baptism may have been somewhere else, such as the next town, etc. This happens frequently.
 
Phemie said:
If they can prove her husband’s ex-wife was baptized Catholic then his marriage to her would have been invalid due to Lack of canonical form. That means that instead of a full blown investigation for a decree of nullity there is a simple, “Due to lack of form this marriage was never presumed valid.”
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That’s what I put in my post. That’s called Disparity of Cult. It’s the only reason I can think of for all of this search.

JR 🙂
 
JReducation said:
That’s what I put in my post. That’s called Disparity of Cult. It’s the only reason I can think of for all of this search.

JR 🙂
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If she is in fact Catholic there are a few things she failed to get: a dispensation from canonical form (to get married somewhere other than the Catholic Church) & permission to enter a mixed-marriage. Disparity of cult only applies to a marriage between a Catholic and a non-baptized person.

When he petitions for a decree of nullity they are going to want all the documents that apply to the wedding and that will include certificates of baptism. Doesn’t matter what the grounds for invalidity might be, they want all the pertinent documentation.
 
Thank you guys so much for your (name removed by moderator)ut!

Peggy was born in Garden City, NY – I will definitely check out nearby parishes. I had not thought about the prospect of the ceremony being conducted in another city. I checked with the archdiocese archivist and baptismal information is not available there – only in the parish archives.

I might be able to find Peggy’s brother. I will try. Maybe he can tell me which church their family attended. I wish I knew who her Godparents are/were. That is a great idea. I think only Peggy and her mom could tell me though.

Yes, I must not have been very clear in my original post – the problem is that we need to provide evidence that Peggy is Catholic but that she and my husband were not married in the Church and did not obtain dispensation for such a marriage. In this situation the marriage is not recognized by the Church and we only need to submit a “Lack of Canonical Form” petition (only one page front and back). If Peggy had been anything but Catholic at the time of their marriage, we would have to go through the formal annulment process. That is, in fact, what we must do for his second marriage. (He certainly did get around!) He is a very different person now. His previous marriages lasted one or two years. We have been married for 15 years and were together for 5 years before we wedded.

I wonder if Confirmation records are kept. Even if her Baptism is not on record, her Confirmation might be.

Thanks for all of your help!
🙂
 
I think Confirmation records are kept in the church where the person was confirmed and may possibly be reported to the church where the person was baptized.

It is inspiring to me when I see people going through all this in order to come into the church. Don’t give up.
 
I wonder if Confirmation records are kept. Even if her Baptism is not on record, her Confirmation might be.

Thanks for all of your help!
🙂

That might help you find her church of baptism, if it’s listed on the confirmation record. You will need a recent copy of her baptismal certificate, though. This functions as the church’s record-keeping system – when you receive a sacrament, or a declaration of nullity, it is sent to the parish where you were baptized. Hence the need for a certificate that is less than 6 months old.
 
Thanks for the information about the confirmation records.
I am going to try talking to Peggy again this weekend.

I will definitely stick with it – I now realize that going through
the Rites leading to Baptism is an important journey – that each Rite
marks a very important stage in becoming Catholic. I know now that this is not just a series of hoops to leap through on a mad dash to become a member of the Church. This is an important time of growth and I am exactly where I am supposed to be. (Man, I never thought I’d hear my self saying things like that!) I had this epiphany just after mass on Sunday. I am in a very peaceful place now. I will keep working to help my husband track down documents while working to appreciate the different stages in my spiritual development.

Thanks again for your help and support!
🙂
 
Claire_from_DE said:
I think Confirmation records are kept in the church where the person was confirmed and may possibly be reported to the church where the person was baptized…
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If she was baptized in a different church from the church where she received confirmation that church would contact the other church so that sacrament could be recorded on the baptismal certificate. All sacraments received are notated on the baptismal certificate. It is the most important document that a Catholic has. If her parents or godparents are alive they could testify under oath that the person was baptized if you cannot locate the certificate so the lack of form can go forward.
 
I had this similar thing happen when I needed to get my Lack of Form. I just went through RCIA last Easter and confirmed so I was not Catholic. My marriage would have only not been valid if my ex-husband had been baptized Catholic which he was. However due to abuse I did not want to contact my ex. My mother helped out a great deal. She literally opened a phone book and called all of the Catholic churches in that area. The great thing - the first church that she called had his baptismal certificate and upon hearing the situation was willing to send it directly to the deacon working with us. If God is for this than it will work out. Have faith and pray on it before you make your next move. He only gives three answers: Yes, No, and Not Yet.
 
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