Missing Christmas Day Mass

[Sir_Knight]

I agree … see if you can go anytime from 4pm Christmas Eve to anytime Christmas Day … including at the hospital. If you can’t, you will not be sinning.

I don’t agree that you need a priest’s dispensation for this just because it is foreseen … you have a legitimately grave reason (hospitals need employeed to run well because people get seriously sick even during Holy Days, and you should not jeopardize your job because you have to care for yourself and a family if you have one).

If someone does have evidence that you can’t miss for a foreseen reason (even a very grave one) and need a dispensation, I’d like to see it.

I presently don’t have the time to search Canon Law but think about this logically: would a priest normally grant a dispensation from attending Mass for a non-legitimate reason? No.

And if what you say is true and one can excuse oneself from attending mass for a legitimate reason, why would one ever need to go to a priest for a dispensation? If you have a legitimate reason, you excuse yourself and if you don’t have a legitimate reason, a priest would normally not grant one. What would be the point in a priest having this authority? None (or very little).

Granting a dispensation is not a formality. The reason why the Church grants a priest the authority to issue dispensations is because one can not excuse oneself – even for foreseen legitimate reasons.

This reminds me of the argument that Protestants use about not confessing their sins to a priest because they can confess their sins directly to God. If we could confess our sins directly to God, what was the point in Jesus granting the Apostles the authority to forgive sins and commanding them to go out and forgive sins?

 

[Bbigam]

Please find a way to get to a Christmas Mass if at all possible! As others have indicated, you have from (generally) 4 pm on Dec 24 until midnight the night of the 25th. Any Mass in this time will fulfill your obligation. I particularly recommend the Midnight Mass.

 

[FrDavid96]

I presently don’t have the time to search Canon Law but think about this logically: would a priest normally grant a dispensation from attending Mass for a non-legitimate reason? No.

And if what you say is true and one can excuse oneself from attending mass for a legitimate reason, why would one ever need to go to a priest for a dispensation? If you have a legitimate reason, you excuse yourself and if you don’t have a legitimate reason, a priest would normally not grant one. What would be the point in a priest having this authority? None (or very little).

Granting a dispensation is not a formality. The reason why the Church grants a priest the authority to issue dispensations is because one can not excuse oneself – even for foreseen legitimate reasons.

This reminds me of the argument that Protestants use about not confessing their sins to a priest because they can confess their sins directly to God. If we could confess our sins directly to God, what was the point in Jesus granting the Apostles the authority to forgive sins and commanding them to go out and forgive sins?

Priests cannot dispense from the Holy Day obligation. Only a diocesan bishop (actually, an ordinary) can do this. Yes, some bishops have delegated this authority to pastors, and some to other priests; but that’s not necessarily true for every diocese.

A dispensation is not necessary for someone who is truly unable to attend Mass. The purpose of dispensing someone from the obligation is either to ease the minds of those who might hesitate–such as we’ve seen the past few days, bishops dispensing the entire diocese because of snowstorms, or for people who are in a somewhat ambiguous situation where they “might” be able to attend Mass, or they might not. The elderly in nursing homes are very often unable to attend Mass, yet they don’t need a formal dispensation. There are plenty of examples one might give of people who find themselves in situations where they can’t get to Mass, and the obligation is lifted without a dispensation.

If a person is genuinely and sincerely unable to attend Mass for some legitimate reason, the obligation itself is lifted–even without a formal dispensation. This, of course, comes down to a matter of the individual being honest with himself and honest with God. That’s not to say that every person can simply excuse himself because he feels he has a good reason for not attending Mass. This sort of thing has to be discerned on an individual basis.

 

[Sir_Knight]

The purpose of dispensing someone from the obligation is either to ease the minds of those who might hesitate

Are you saying that it IS a formality?

 

[FrDavid96]

Are you saying that it IS a formality?

That depends upon what you mean by the question. A dispensation is a “formal act” so yes, it is a formality. That’s not to say that it is “merely a formality.”

What I am saying is that a person who is genuinely unable to attend Mass does not need a formal dispensation–the law to attend HDO Mass does not bind in an impossible situation. The difficulty is sometimes “how do we define impossible?” This past weekend, we know that several bishops dispensed their entire dioceses from the Sunday obligation because of snowstorms. Could some of those people have attended Mass anyway? Surely, some could have. Someone who lives next-door to a church most likely could have been at Mass with very little effort. But what about people who are in a situation where they might cause harm to themselves or others by risking driving in the snow/ice to get to Mass? In that case, the bishop decided that the most pastoral response was to dispense the entire diocese, so that the faithful would not be in a situation where they would have to ask themselves “should I risk it?” Granting a formal dispensation relieved the individual persons of that responsibility to ask that question, and so everyone was able to stay at home and do so in good conscience.

There are other times when dispensations are granted to people who aren’t necessarily in an impossible situation, but merely a difficult one. People who have a good reason approach the bishop (or his delegate, who might even be the local pastor), present their case and they receive a dispensation.

But the point still remains that if the situation makes it genuinely impossible for a person to attend Mass, the obligation simply is not there.

 

[5Loaves]

And actually Mass on Saturday evening is a “Mass of Anticipation” although it seems nearly every parish calls it a vigil Mass. An actual vigil Mass has separate propers and readings.“Mass of Anticipation” readings are the same readings as the Sunday Mass the following calendar day.

 

[captainmike]

i see there’s another thread on this

 

[CB_Catholic]

I presently don’t have the time to search Canon Law but think about this logically: would a priest normally grant a dispensation from attending Mass for a non-legitimate reason? No.

And if what you say is true and one can excuse oneself from attending mass for a legitimate reason, why would one ever need to go to a priest for a dispensation? If you have a legitimate reason, you excuse yourself and if you don’t have a legitimate reason, a priest would normally not grant one. What would be the point in a priest having this authority? None (or very little).

Granting a dispensation is not a formality. The reason why the Church grants a priest the authority to issue dispensations is because one can not excuse oneself – even for foreseen legitimate reasons.

This reminds me of the argument that Protestants use about not confessing their sins to a priest because they can confess their sins directly to God. If we could confess our sins directly to God, what was the point in Jesus granting the Apostles the authority to forgive sins and commanding them to go out and forgive sins?

I still haven’t figured out links, but the relevant Canon Law is #1245 and the reference is in the CCC #2181. “…the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused by a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) OR dispensed by their own pastor.” The serious reason excuses you from missing Mass. Having to work is a serious reason for missing Mass, because work is necessary to make a living. And the canon states OR dispensed by your own pastor–it does not equate the two. The serious reason is enough, and the person is not excusing themselves, they are excused by the serious reason, according to Church law. It is not reasonable or logical for a person to have to call the pastor every time they have to miss Mass because of work, because having to make a living is a serious reason, nor is it reasonable to expect a pastor to have to give all those dispensations for something that is already excused because it’s a serious reason and covered by Church law.

I am certainly not a Canon Lawyer, but that appears to be a fairly forthright law. If you have a serious reason, you are excused from attending Mass. And work is a serious reason. You do not have to get a dispensation from your Pastor for it.

 

[Glutamine]

Thank you everyone for responding.

I had misunderstood between the Vigil mass and next day mass. I had assumed that the Christmass Eve Vigil mass (from 4pm to midnight) was different/did not fulfill Christmas day obligation. In other words, I thought you had to go to mass on both days.

So given that one does attend Christmas Eve Vigil mass, then working (say at a hospital) on Christmas day would not be a sin correct?

 

[CB_Catholic]

Thank you everyone for responding.

I had misunderstood between the Vigil mass and next day mass. I had assumed that the Christmass Eve Vigil mass (from 4pm to midnight) was different/did not fulfill Christmas day obligation. In other words, I thought you had to go to mass on both days.

So given that one does attend Christmas Eve Vigil mass, then working (say at a hospital) on Christmas day would not be a sin correct?

That is correct. You have fulfilled your obligation by attending the Vigil Mass. .

And pray for the patients. They don’t want to be there either.

 

[Bbigam]

And actually Mass on Saturday evening is a “Mass of Anticipation” although it seems nearly every parish calls it a vigil Mass. An actual vigil Mass has separate propers and readings.“Mass of Anticipation” readings are the same readings as the Sunday Mass the following calendar day.

Right. Just to clarify, the Christmas Vigil Mass is of course a true vigil with different readings and propers. Uniquely, in fact, there are four Christmas Masses - Vigil, Midnight, Dawn, and Day, each with different propers (and each fulfilling the Christmas obligation).

A few other solemnities have true Vigils as well. Of course there’s the Easter Vigil which is completely unique. Pentecost, Nativity of St. John the Baptist, Sts. Peter & Paul, and Assumption all have vigils.

I would guess that the vigils that aren’t Holy Days of Obligation or Sundays don’t get used much.

 

[FrDavid96]

Thank you everyone for responding.

I had misunderstood between the Vigil mass and next day mass. I had assumed that the Christmass Eve Vigil mass (from 4pm to midnight) was different/did not fulfill Christmas day obligation. In other words, I thought you had to go to mass on both days.

So given that one does attend Christmas Eve Vigil mass, then working (say at a hospital) on Christmas day would not be a sin correct?

Absolutely correct. If you go to Christmas Eve Mass you’ve already fulfilled the Christmas obligation. You’re not required to go again.

 

[FrDavid96]

I still haven’t figured out links, but the relevant Canon Law is #1245 and the reference is in the CCC #2181. “…the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused by a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) OR dispensed by their own pastor.” The serious reason excuses you from missing Mass. Having to work is a serious reason for missing Mass, because work is necessary to make a living. And the canon states OR dispensed by your own pastor–it does not equate the two. The serious reason is enough, and the person is not excusing themselves, they are excused by the serious reason, according to Church law. It is not reasonable or logical for a person to have to call the pastor every time they have to miss Mass because of work, because having to make a living is a serious reason, nor is it reasonable to expect a pastor to have to give all those dispensations for something that is already excused because it’s a serious reason and covered by Church law.

I am certainly not a Canon Lawyer, but that appears to be a fairly forthright law. If you have a serious reason, you are excused from attending Mass. And work is a serious reason. You do not have to get a dispensation from your Pastor for it.

Do keep in mind though that the pastor doesn’t necessarily have the authority to dispense from the obligation. This only applies “according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop” (canon 1245) who can either extend or deny pastors the authority to dispense from it.

 

[CatholicZ09]

Canon 1246ß2

In addition to Sunday, the days to be observed as holy days of obligation in the Latin Rite dioceses of the United States of America, in conformity with canon 1246, are as follows:

January 1, the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God
Thursday of the Sixth Week of Easter, the solemnity of the Ascension
August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary
November 1, the solemnity of All Saints
December 8, the solemnity of the Immaculate Conception
December 25, the solemnity of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ

Whenever January 1, the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God, or August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption, or November 1, the solemnity of All Saints, falls on a Saturday or on a Monday, the precept to attend Mass is abrogated.

So yes, December 25th, The Nativity of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is a Holy Day of Obligation.

 

[teadough]

Dispensation is never automatic for foreseen events – only for unforeseen events. Foreseen events require PRIOR dispensation from your parish priest or it IS a sin.

I work at a job that requires me to work 12 hr swing shifts. I know a year in advance what my schedule is, and for the past two years I have had to work both Christmas and Easter. Please, don’t make people who are already sad that they are missing a special holiday even more so because they have a God given job that supports their family. Odds are you don’t work a 12 hr swing swing shift and have no idea how much of a toil it is to make certain days of obligation. You have no idea the heartache it is for me, and many like me, who are at work on certain holidays while you and many others are out trolla la la la lollin with your family,friends, and Parish members on these days.

there is nothing more sad and lonely than being at work during Easter or Christmas(Even Thanksgiving for a few years straight…not a Obligation day…but still…). I don’t even know what a “dispensation” is and Im not going to even bother looking it up, but I do know that I am good with God on the days I have had to miss Mass(yes, I miss it every other Sunday,too because I work every other Fri-Sun). The last thing God wants is for someone like me to fret around over weather or not I am living in sin just because I missed Mass due in part to a job that He gave me. If he didn’t want me to make the water
clean for the people in my community, then He would probably let me have another job, because God knows I have tried for different work with better hours for the last several years and there is nothing out there for Him to offer me at this time and I am OK with that and accept where I am.

 

[Sir_Knight]

I work at a job that requires me to work 12 hr swing shifts. I know a year in advance what my schedule is, and for the past two years I have had to work both Christmas and Easter. Please, don’t make people who are already sad that they are missing a special holiday even more so because they have a God given job that supports their family.

I know all about supporting my family. My job went overseas and I am now working twice the hours that I did before and bringing home half that pay.

Odds are you don’t work a 12 hr swing swing shift and have no idea how much of a toil it is to make certain days of obligation. You have no idea the heartache it is for me, and many like me, who are at work on certain holidays while you and many others are out trolla la la la lollin with your family,friends, and Parish members on these days.

Please do not assume what I know and don’t know. While I do not work a “12 hr swing swing shift”, I work two jobs putting in an average of 14 hours a day, six days a week. I had to switch with TWO co-workers in order to make mass on Dec 8 and I was unable to go with my family.

there is nothing more sad and lonely than being at work during Easter or Christmas(Even Thanksgiving for a few years straight…not a Obligation day…but still…). I don’t even know what a “dispensation” is and Im not going to even bother looking it up,

That’s a good attitude to have

but I do know that I am good with God on the days I have had to miss Mass(yes, I miss it every other Sunday,too because I work every other Fri-Sun).

How do you know? Do you use the Protestant approach and base it on a “feeling”? Wouldn’t it be better to seek a dispensation and know for certain? Especially when you know ahead of time. Or does the authority of the Church mean so little to you?

“Obey your leaders and submit to their authority.” – Hebrews 13:17

The last thing God wants is for someone like me to fret around over weather or not I am living in sin just because I missed Mass due in part to a job that He gave me.

Yeah, I guess the third commandment no longer applies.

If he didn’t want me to make the water
clean for the people in my community, then He would probably let me have another job, because God knows I have tried for different work with better hours for the last several years and there is nothing out there for Him to offer me at this time and I am OK with that and accept where I am.

By that logic, one can conclude that if God didn’t want Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of Good and Evil, He wouldn’t have put it in the Garden of Eden.

But not to worry, according to Fr Dave (whose authority I will yield to unless something to the contrary makes itself available), you can miss mass if you have a valid reason. I, however, will continue to seek a dispensation from my parish priest if I know ahead of time that I can not attend mass because the third commandment doesn’t say to keep holy the Lord’s Day “EXCEPT if you have a valid reason not to” and the authority to bind and loosen was NOT given to individual believers but TO the Church.

 

[teadough]

I know all about supporting my family. My job went overseas and I am now working twice the hours that I did before and bringing home half that pay.

Please do not assume what I know and don’t know. While I do not work a “12 hr swing swing shift”, I work two jobs putting in an average of 14 hours a day, six days a week. I had to switch with TWO co-workers in order to make mass on Dec 8 and I was unable to go with my family.

I have no idea who Father Dave is, and am not too concerned what he may or may not think about this conversation, because when all is said and done, this is just a message board and there is no way of knowing who anyone really is, or what type of title/position they claim to have in the Catholic Church. No offense to him if he truly be a priest, but I see no reason for you to drag a complete stranger in so as to fill as though the point your making are valid. If anything, you’re are dong nothing but trying to show Father Dave a type of “LOOK AT ME,FATHER…IM DOTTING ALL MY I’s and CROSSING ALL T’s WITH THE RULES OF THE CHURCH…AINT I SWELL?”"

Anyways, I am heading to a.m Mass. Being that I work a swing shift, I still have plenty of days where I am off during the week, and normally I attend a/m Mass at 6:45. I love it!! But guess what? All my friends and family are working and will be off the weekends, so I do the best with what I can in regard to attending Mass and spending time with Our Lord.

 

[japhy]

I have no idea who Father Dave is, and am not too concerned what he may or may not think about this conversation, because when all is said and done, this is just a message board and there is no way of knowing who anyone really is, or what type of title/position they claim to have in the Catholic Church.

FrDavid96 is a Catholic priest. Catholic Answers Forum goes to great lengths to ensure that people who present themselves as priests on this web site are actually priests.

No offense to him if he truly be a priest, but I see no reason for you to drag a complete stranger in so as to fill as though the point your making are valid.

He is a priest, he’s commented on this thread already, and we’re virtually all complete strangers on this board. And just prefacing a comment with “no offense, but…” doesn’t have the effect you might desire.

If anything, you’re are dong nothing but trying to show Father Dave a type of “LOOK AT ME,FATHER…IM DOTTING ALL MY I’s and CROSSING ALL T’s WITH THE RULES OF THE CHURCH…AINT I SWELL?”"

Fr. David has provided pastoral information in this thread. It’s not all about rules and theory, it’s about guidance in our practical lives.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

How do you know? Do you use the Protestant approach and base it on a “feeling”? Wouldn’t it be better to seek a dispensation and know for certain? Especially when you know ahead of time. Or does the authority of the Church mean so little to you?

As opposed to those in this thread who have made up Church rules that don’t exist?

 

[teadough]

FrDavid96 is

a Catholic priest. Catholic Answers Forum goes to great lengths to ensure that people who present themselves as priests on this web site are actually priests.

Thats nice to know then

He is a priest, he’s commented on this thread already, and we’re virtually all complete strangers