Missing Mass Conflict!

[onetimeposter]

I will speak only of Canada. As you may or may not know, the Catholic population in Canada is around 43%.

It is my understanding that only 25% of Catholics attend Mass regularly. The other 75% attend at varying frequencies and obviously there are some that don’t attend at all.

The Church has declared that missing Mass on Sunday ( Saturday) is a mortal sin.

I feel that this decision only affects the 25% who attend weekly Mass and take these types of things very seriously.

The other 75%, obviously aren’t that worried about it, as there are not lineups outside the Church’s with people waiting for confession.

At Christmas, the other 75% show up for Christmas Mass and again, there aren’t thousands of people lined up at the confessional for their yearly confession.

So, again, these 75% ( or so, this isn’t really about the numbers) aren’t concerned about the 51 weeks of missing Mass and 51 weeks of mortal sin in that regard.

So, if the 25% who attend Mass, miss Mass, they commit mortal sin and then likely go to confession. The other 75% could care less and the Church, doesn’t seem to be doing anything about it, as everyone gets communion at Christmas time and the 15,000 people who show up, certainly were not all at confession…so how concerned is the Church really about people missing Mass?

The regular Mass goers are going regardless if it is a Mortal sin or not a Mortal sin.

The other 75% seemingly, don’t care either way.

Is the Church really concerned about this? If so, why does everyone get communion at Christmas…it is obvious that the majority of Christmas worshipers do not attend weekly Mass.

Why doesn’t the Church get rid of this rule and throw it into the venial sin list.

 

[kage_ar]

Let me see, you want the Priest to have everyone at Christmas Mass to show the card that has been stamped proving they have been to Mass during the year?

The Church treats us like we are big boys and big girls, who can be trusted to only approach Communion when we are free from mortal sin.

 

[onetimeposter]

Let me see, you want the Priest to have everyone at Christmas Mass to show the card that has been stamped proving they have been to Mass during the year?

The Church treats us like we are big boys and big girls, who can be trusted to only approach Communion when we are free from mortal sin.

I’ve got the impression that you aren’t taking my question seriously.

The Church knows that the majority are in a state of mortal sin, as they know that there weren’t an extra 500,000 people who went through confession prior to Christmas.

 

[Phemie]

Rather than getting rid of the rule we have to have priests who make it clear what the rules are.

I’m tired of sitting in baptismal preparation classes and having those who teach it say that parents have to compromise over things like going to Mass, as though deciding between taking the boys to the hockey practice or Mass is the equivalent of deciding between taking them to the practice or to the restaurant.

I’m tired of priests who always point out that God loves us no matter what but fail to add ‘but we need to repent and go to confession’.

I’m tired of pastors who think it’s boring and not worth it to sit in the confessional at set times so that someone can slip in and confess without calling for an appointment or going to get them by the hand in the 10 minutes they deign to be in the Church before Mass.

I’m tired of priests who avoid the word SIN as though it were too old fashioned to use these days. I’ve been in this parish 11 years and in that time I’ve NEVER heard a homily that said that we need to regret our sins, repent and confess them. That might account for the fact that 18 people, out of a parish of 1500, showed up for Form Two of Reconciliation during Lent – and that was the only scheduled opportunity for Confession before Easter.

 

[japhy]

The Church has declared that missing Mass on Sunday ( Saturday) is a mortal sin. … Why doesn’t the Church get rid of this rule and throw it into the venial sin list.

Attending Mass is not an “obligation” in the sense of “so-and-so told me I have to do it”. Rather, it is a necessary function of the Body of Christ, which is the Church.

Failing to attend Mass on days of obligation is like failing to eat, failing to breathe, failing to have a heart beat. Your body, in order to function, needs to have food, to take in air, to pump blood. If your body fails to breathe, it can’t simply relegate breathing to a less-than-critical function; likewise, eating and pumping blood. Every member of the body needs the benefit of that air, blood, and nourishment. That member will not function without the body.

So it is with Catholics and the Mass. The Mass is the corporate act of the Body of Christ: it is a “functional necessity” of the Body. The Body isn’t living if it is not worshiping its Creator at Mass. And while the Mystical Body of Christ is not hindered from fulfilling this necessary function when a member is absent, severed, or “numb”, that particular member does suffer.

We owe worship to God, personally and corporately. The Church does not dictate your personal worship, but as you belong to the Church, when She worships corporately on Sundays and other holy days, it is critical to each of Her members to join themselves to that act.

 

[onetimeposter]

Attending Mass is not an “obligation” in the sense of “so-and-so told me I have to do it”. Rather, it is a necessary function of the Body of Christ, which is the Church.

Failing to attend Mass on days of obligation is like failing to eat, failing to breathe, failing to have a heart beat. Your body, in order to function, needs to have food, to take in air, to pump blood. If your body fails to breathe, it can’t simply relegate breathing to a less-than-critical function; likewise, eating and pumping blood. Every member of the body needs the benefit of that air, blood, and nourishment. That member will not function without the body.

So it is with Catholics and the Mass. The Mass is the corporate act of the Body of Christ: it is a “functional necessity” of the Body. The Body isn’t living if it is not worshiping its Creator at Mass. And while the Mystical Body of Christ is not hindered from fulfilling this necessary function when a member is absent, severed, or “numb”, that particular member does suffer.

We owe worship to God, personally and corporately. The Church does not dictate your personal worship, but as you belong to the Church, when She worships corporately on Sundays and other holy days, it is critical to each of Her members to join themselves to that act.

Good answer, except…

The Church knows that the majority are in a state of mortal sin, as they know that there weren’t an extra 500,000 people who went through confession prior to Christmas.

I’ll pick a parish in my city. It has about 1400 regular members. At Christmas, the parish priests advises that 15,000 people will attend the Christmas Mass.

Father knows that 13,600 people didn’t go through his confessional and if he lets himself believe that maybe all the Catholics present went to another confessional at another parish…he is willfully blind to the reality, that no, the majority did not go to confession.

I’ve been to the Basilica where there are multiple daily confessionals open and it is the only multiple confessional with multiple times for confession in the city. Even at Christmas, the lines are dozens deep, not tens of thousands deep.

So, the Church says its a mortal sin…but what about at Christmas when the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Catholics ( in one city only) attend for their one yearly Mass? They all get the Eucharist…

 

[surfinpure]

I’m sure the priests are not unaware that a large number of Christmas-and-Easter Catholics are in mortal sin. A good priest will take this very seriously and pray for these people, and do what he can to teach the obligation and the meaning behind it.

But what else, exactly, would you have the priests (or the bishops) do? There is no real way of verifying that someone is not in mortal sin before he receives the Eucharist, is there?

Also, some of these Catholics (as I was for a long time) are ignorant of the Sunday obligation and the requirement to make a confession once a year. They simply have not been catechised, perhaps because their parents never thought it was all that important. But for whatever reason, if they remain ignorant that they are sinning, it is venial sin, not mortal, since they have no full knowledge.

 

[onetimeposter]

I’m sure the priests are not unaware that a large number of Christmas-and-Easter Catholics are in mortal sin. A good priest will take this very seriously and pray for these people, and do what he can to teach the obligation and the meaning behind it.

But what else, exactly, would you have the priests (or the bishops) do? There is no real way of verifying that someone is not in mortal sin before he receives the Eucharist, is there?

There is an easy way to verify…announce at every Christmas Mass that missing Mass on Sunday is a mortal sin and that in order to receive Eucharist, you would have had to have attended confession. Why don’t they do that? It’s true isn’t it?

 

[surfinpure]

There is an easy way to verify…announce at every Christmas Mass that missing Mass on Sunday is a mortal sin and that in order to receive Eucharist, you would have had to have attended confession. Why don’t they do that? It’s true isn’t it?

That is not verifying at all. That is simply informing. There is no way to verify.

But if this is of deep concern to you, why not write your bishop? Perhaps with permission you could pass out pamphlets on the steps of your church before each Christmas Mass.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Is the Church really concerned about this? If so, why does everyone get communion at Christmas…it is obvious that the majority of Christmas worshipers do not attend weekly Mass.

Why doesn’t the Church get rid of this rule and throw it into the venial sin list.

I think the priests are careful to not scare away those people on the one mass they attend every year. The more interest they show in learning about their faith, the more likely they will learn about the details of the rules. That once chance a year they get to preach to those catholics, they use it to try to get them interested in fully practicing their faith, rather than taking an opportunity to tell them how far of course they are. That’s just my opinion.

 

[onetimeposter]

I think the priests are careful to not scare away those people on the one mass they attend every year. The more interest they show in learning about their faith, the more likely they will learn about the details of the rules. That once chance a year they get to preach to those catholics, they use it to try to get them interested in fully practicing their faith, rather than taking an opportunity to tell them how far of course they are. That’s just my opinion.

I think your right on the money.

I would rather missing Mass be a venial sin…up until recently, I so rarely missed Mass and when I did, I had to find a convenient place for a confession…but like I say, the ’ other ’ 75%, well it doesn’t affect them now does it?

Not quite sure why it’s a mortal sin condemning someone to Hell…but that is another topic altogether.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I think your right on the money.

I would rather missing Mass be a venial sin…up until recently, I so rarely missed Mass and when I did, I had to find a convenient place for a confession…but like I say, the ’ other ’ 75%, well it doesn’t affect them now does it?

Not quite sure why it’s a mortal sin condemning someone to Hell…but that is another topic altogether.

Well, I don’t think the church can just change whether a sin is venial or mortal. And those categories are a bit subjective you know… it depends on the individual’s circumstances. A person with a strong faith life who just didn’t understand the importance of Sunday mass might only be committing a venial sin. It’s a general rule though, that if someone takes their faith seriously, they would go to mass. It’s hard to understand someone in a state of grace not going to mass. Why aren’t they there? It doesn’t make much sense really.

 

[onetimeposter]

Well, I don’t think the church can just change whether a sin is venial or mortal. And those categories are a bit subjective you know… it depends on the individual’s circumstances. A person with a strong faith life who just didn’t understand the importance of Sunday mass might only be committing a venial sin. It’s a general rule though, that if someone takes their faith seriously, they would go to mass. It’s hard to understand someone in a state of grace not going to mass. Why aren’t they there? It doesn’t make much sense really.

I think the Church can change it from a mortal sin to a venial sin, afterall, the Church made the decision that it is to be a mortal sin, so if they made the rule, the can change the rule.

Human nature I guess…it was in a letter to Romans was it not, when the writer questioned, why is it I don’t do the things I want to do and I do the things I don’t want to do?

I think it was Paul that wrote something along those lines.

 

[surfinpure]

I think the Church can change it from a mortal sin to a venial sin, afterall, the Church made the decision that it is to be a mortal sin, so if they made the rule, the can change the rule.

Human nature I guess…it was in a letter to Romans was it not, when the writer questioned, why is it I don’t do the things I want to do and I do the things I don’t want to do?

I think it was Paul that wrote something along those lines.

I doubt the Church can or will reverse her position on the Sunday obligation. And I personally don’t think it ought to be changed.

CCC 2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice…

2182 Participation in the communal celebration of the Sunday Eucharist is a testimony of belonging and of being faithful to Christ and to his Church. The faithful give witness by this to their communion in faith and charity. Together they testify to God’s holiness and their hope of salvation. They strengthen one another under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

So clearly it is of extreme importance to participate in Sunday Mass, and it is a denial of our Christian faith, practice, and witness to neglect it for unjust reasons. Because our need for the Mass is so great, the obligation is great, and the penalty for neglecting the obligation must also be great. The Church would not lead us to take for granted something that is so important to our spiritual wellbeing, or else they would be misleading us.

 

[Kevin42]

First, we need to be more accurate. The Church has no idea how many people are in, or are committing mortal sins at any time. For a sin to be mortal it must meet the following criteria:

1. its subject must be a grave (or serious) matter;
2. it must be committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense (though nobody is deemed to be ignorant of the moral law, embedded into the consciences of every human being);
3. it must be committed with deliberate and complete consent, enough for it to have been a personal decision to commit the sin.

The Church only can definitively speak on the first matter. However, only the person committing the sin to some extent and God know if they are also fully consenting and knowledgeable. So, we do not know how many people are committing mortal sins by not attending mass. We do know though roughly how many are committing* sins of grave matter*. This does not necessarily mean they are sinning mortally.

You are basically saying though that you think the Church needs to switch missing Sunday mass from grave matter, to venial because you think it is a good idea. You have given us a very flimsy argument which is basically “I don’t agree.” That may be, but I do not suspect this teaching will change any time in the near future. Attending mass is so important, and so necessary to live a basic Christian life that the Church could not say it is ok to miss mass whenever you feel like it. If we fully understood the mass, we would never want to leave!

Furthermore, I have seen thousands of people in line for confession right before Easter. My Parish had about 15 priests come in one night, and I waited in line for 3 hours, before I had to turn and go home without even having been able to confess. Although I was extremely displeased that I was unable to confess, it was absolutely beautiful to see so many people there.

 

[onetimeposter]

Furthermore, I have seen thousands of people in line for confession right before Easter. My Parish had about 15 priests come in one night, and I waited in line for 3 hours, before I had to turn and go home without even having been able to confess. Although I was extremely displeased that I was unable to confess, it was absolutely beautiful to see so many people there.

Thousands? That is very rare in North America…I assure you and if the case…very good indeed.

 

[Kevin42]

Thousands? That is very rare in North America…I assure you.

It must have been, I am guessing, around 1500. It seemed to me that each priest had a line of around 100, more or less. I was shocked when I went to find that many people there. There were families, elderly, young, middle aged, and all other kinds.

 

[surfinpure]

Thousands? That is very rare in North America…I assure you and if the case…very good indeed.

I don’t know that it’s really all that rare. I have seen hundreds at once, with the same set-up of a number of priests to hear confession.

 

[onetimeposter]

I have trouble believing this following:

A Roman Catholic man attends Mass weekly, takes his obligation seriously and he always brings his family to Mass.

One weekend, he takes his family on a vacation and decides that for the first time in 14 years, they can skip Mass because of the vacation, even though their is a Catholic Church in the city where they are vacationing. He decides that missing Mass is Ok this one time.

This man is well aware of the teachings of the Church regarding missing Mass being a Mortal sin. He has a very active Church life.

The Man gets hit by a car the following Monday and dies instantly. He didn’t go to Mass that weekend for the reason listed above and because he died while in a state of Mortal Sin ( according the rules of the Church) God doesn’t accept him in heaven and he is condemned to Hell for all of eternity.

Where as:

A Catholic man raises a family and never ever ever brings them to Mass and he is very ignorant about the rules of the Church. He doesn’t know many of the teachings of the Church and has no idea that missing Mass is a Mortal sin. He takes his family to Xmas Mass only and he went to confession once when he was a youngster.

This man dies suddenly and because of his ignorance…he gets to go to heaven?

---

So the learned man is condemned to Hell and the ignorant man gets paradise?

In the first example, there is no question, the man has to go to Hell, because he died with mortal sin on his soul and he died instantly, with no time for confession. ( rules of the Church, people with mortal sins on their souls can’t go to heaven)

The second example, who knows what will happen to him, but he seems to be in a better position having lived a life of ingorance.

Would an all good, all loving God commit a person to hell because they missed a Mass without feeling any contrition or remorse?

Does that not seem very legalistic for an all powerful, all loving and all good God?

Does that not seem more like the actions of a human King, rather than an all loving and good God?

 

[Kevin42]

“But he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom they have committed much, of him they will demand the more.”

-Luke 12:48

Furthermore, this is your hypothetical, so in it, you have made yourself God and condemned the imaginary man to hell. In the real world, we have no idea (except in the cases of canonized saints) who goes to heaven or hell. Jesus desires to give us mercy, even if we wait until the moment of our death to call out for it. So, do not be worried or troubled. Jesus came to save sinners, remember. Trust in our Lord’s infinite wisdom, justice, and mercy.