Missing mass: grave sin or mortal sin?

[Bookcat]

.

Sometimes there is some confusion here on terms.

Mortal sin = Serious sin = Grave sin

The Church uses these terms in two senses (and an objective if you will and a subjective sense). And in both senses the terms grave sin, mortal sin, and serious sin are interchangeable.

Here are the two senses:

1. Objective sense

Murder is a grave sin.
Murder is a serious sin.
Murder is a mortal sin.

(all three mean the same)

this is one way the Church use the term. Talking about the ‘moral object’ of the act or the ‘objective kind of sin’. Referring to the object itself. Like if I said…do not commit murder for that is a mortal sin.

Then there is this way…

1. Subjective sense…

I committed the grave sin of Murder
I committed the serious sin of Murder
I committed the mortal sin of Murder

(all three mean the same)

This is speaking of when the thing I committed is grave matter …done with full knowledge and deliberate (complete) consent.

Both are true. Both are ways the terms get used in Church documents

So one can say both that murder is a mortal sin and murder is a grave sin. Meaning the same thing. Or use the term grave sin (again meaning the same thing)

What one wants to avoid is any idea that they are two different categories. They are not.

 

[Bookcat]

The CCC **does not say **that “Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a mortal sin.” It says “grave sin.”

.

Yes that is true. Cause the Church uses the terms as synonyms.

Those who deliberately (here the knowledge is presupposed) do so commit a grave sin.

And what does one HAVE to confess? Grave sins (what is also called mortal sins).

I understand very much the confusion here --it pops up here from time time

---

A Few Examples of the Church interchanging the terms: They are synonyms.

CCC1385: “Anyone conscious of a **grave sin **must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.”

From: The Compendium of the Catechism issued by Pope Benedict XVI

"304. Which sins must be confessed?

1456

All grave sins not yet confessed, which a careful examination of conscience brings to mind, must be brought to the sacrament of Penance. The confession of** serious sins **is the only ordinary way to obtain forgiveness." (see also Canon Law …the term is used there too).

1. What is required to receive Holy Communion?

1385-1389
1415

To receive Holy Communion one must be fully incorporated into the Catholic Church and be in the state of grace, that is, not conscious of being in mortal sin. Anyone who is conscious of having committed a** grave sin** must first receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before going to Communion.

(note that one used BOTH to mean the same thing in the same paragraph… for variety in use of language in writing.)

---

“However, it must be remembered that the church, guided by faith in this great sacrament, teaches that no Christian who is conscious of **grave sin **can receive the eucharist before having obtained God’s forgiveness.”

Pope John Paul II Reconciliatio et Paenitentia 17

And in a speech from Pope John Paul II

“The sacrament of Penance is meant to take away personal sins committed after Baptism: first of all mortal sins, then venial. If the penitent has committed more than one mortal sin, they can only be remitted all at once. In fact, the remission of **serious sin **consists in the infusion of the sanctifying grace which has been lost, and grace is incompatible with any and every serious sin. Venial sins are to be regarded differently…”

and in ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA

“If a Christian’s conscience is burdened by serious sin, then the path of penance through the sacrament of Reconciliation becomes necessary for full participation in the Eucharistic Sacrifice.”

---

And Pope Benedict XVI in his Catecheses with Children said:

"Only in that case, when you are in a state of “mortal” sin, in other words, grave (sin), is it necessary to go to confession before Communion. This is my first point. " vatican.va/holy_father/be…ildren_en.html

---

grave sin = mortal sin = serious sin

 

[ProVobis]

Sometimes there is some confusion here on terms.

Mortal sin = Serious sin = Grave sin

The Church uses these terms in two senses (and an objective if you will and a subjective sense). And in both senses the terms grave sin, mortal sin, and serious sin are interchangeable.

Doesn’t it make them different in that in the English grave and serious are matter of degree (one sin can be graver than another, for example) but mortal is mortal?

 

[josh987654321]

In the CCC states:
2181.The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who **deliberately **fail in this obligation commit a **grave sin. **

Why the CCC don’t say those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit mortal sin? For what I know, a grave sin and a mortal sin is two different things…

I believe people need to forget about whether they are sinning or not by missing Mass, I believe those who get caught up on whether missing Mass is a sin, miss the whole point.

The question is, do you want to go to Mass? do you hunger/thirst for it?

**If you hunger/thrist for the Mass, even if you do miss it, your not sinning, if you don’t hunger/thrist for the Mass, even if you do go, you will simply be paying lip service, “These people honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.” (Isaiah 29:13) **

The common response as to why people attend mass is “Because it’s commanded of us” or “Because it’s a sin to miss mass for no valid reason.”

When people miss mass for no valid reason (e.g. they didn’t feel like going), the church teaches us that this is a sin. However Christ does not want people to attend mass out of fear, guilt or by feeling forced to go. Christ wants us to attend mass because we want to, because we love him and want to recieve that enourmous gift where he comes down and feeds us with his body, blood, soul and divinity. We should attend becuase we want to, we hunger/thrist for that encounter of real love with him through the Holy Eucharist.

Christ doesn’t want mass to be some routine that lacks all enthusiasm, Instead it should be another unique and loving encounter with him.

To miss mass for no valid reason is a sin because we have failed to see or placed on such low piority recieveing that enourmous gift of the Holy Eucharist, where Christ comes down and feeds us with his body, blood, soul and divinity, where we experience that encounter of real love with Christ through the Holy Eucharist.

When people say to someone “The Church commands us to go to Mass” or just “Missing mass is a sin.” I believe they have missed the point. They should go because they want to go.

I believe Mark121359 said it best on another thread -

Mark121359:

You have to have that passion for the Faith burning with fire inside you. To me, if you don’t have a deep, deep passion for Christ in your heart beforehand, then even if you do attend Mass, you will likely be just paying lip service and not much more. And this I speak from experience!..“These people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.” Isaiah 29:13

If you do not experience that hunger/thirst for the Mass, if you wish to light that passion, that fire inside you, than please read these two very short books. (They have given me a great desire for the Mass, for his Eucharistic presense).

In Adoration - loveandmercy.org/Eng-IA-Reg.pdf
The Holy Mass - loveandmercy.org/Eng-HM-Reg.pdf

For more please go here - youshallbelieve.com/

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[thistle]

My understanding is that while it is a grave matter, it is also understood that we are humans and thus fallible. Some people will forget to set the alarm, or the power will go out, or the car battery will be dead, or they don’t have any clean underwear, or the sewer backed up into their house, or the 3yr old decided to run into the 5yr old and knock out their teeth, or various other life craziness ensues. None of these is objectively a reason to miss mass - but such things happen, they aren’t planned for, and those who have difficulty with organizational skills in the first place will be thrown for a loop when they happen - and may very well end up missing mass.

There is a difference (or should be) between life chaos and deciding the pre-game show is more interesting then attending mass. The reason behind the action is very personal - and it’s my understanding that very thing is what can differentiate between mortal and lesser sin. Each of us have to examine our conscience and speak to our priests about it on our own.

Full disclosure - I have missed mass for every reason (and many more) listed above - and have been told every time in confession by different priests that I shouldn’t worry about it but just take care of the kids and do my best to make it to mass as often as I am able. (Which thankfully now is almost always).

Forgetting to set your alarm is not a justifiable reason to miss Mass. Are you saying there are no other Masses during the day?
If you jump in the car and find the battery is dead that would only be a reasonable excuse if there is no other way to get to any Mass!
Obviously sickness, accident, injury to you or your family that requires missing Mass is a reasonable reason to miss Mass assuming such a reason extends the entire day so you cannot get to any Mass.

 

[thistle]

My understanding is that while it is a grave matter, it is also understood that we are humans and thus fallible. Some people will forget to set the alarm, or the power will go out, or the car battery will be dead, or they don’t have any clean underwear, or the sewer backed up into their house, or the 3yr old decided to run into the 5yr old and knock out their teeth, or various other life craziness ensues. None of these is objectively a reason to miss mass - but such things happen, they aren’t planned for, and those who have difficulty with organizational skills in the first place will be thrown for a loop when they happen - and may very well end up missing mass.

There is a difference (or should be) between life chaos and deciding the pre-game show is more interesting then attending mass. The reason behind the action is very personal - and it’s my understanding that very thing is what can differentiate between mortal and lesser sin. Each of us have to examine our conscience and speak to our priests about it on our own.

Full disclosure - I have missed mass for every reason (and many more) listed above - and have been told every time in confession by different priests that I shouldn’t worry about it but just take care of the kids and do my best to make it to mass as often as I am able. (Which thankfully now is almost always).

Forgetting to set your alarm is not a justifiable reason to miss Mass. Are you saying there are no other Masses during the day? If you miss the first Mass every effort must be made to go to another Mass.
If you jump in the car and find the battery is dead that would only be a reasonable excuse if there is no other way to get to any Mass!
Obviously sickness, accident, injury to you or your family that requires missing Mass is a reasonable reason to miss Mass assuming such a reason extends the entire day so you cannot get to any Mass.

 

[OraLabora]

Are you saying there are no other Masses during the day?
If you jump in the car and find the battery is dead that would only be a reasonable excuse if there is no other way to get to any Mass!

Both are the reality in the rural area I live. There is no public transit to get you from one town to the next. If you were setting up to make it to a 10 am Mass, it could very well be that your only realistic option in the next town was a 9 am Mass.

 

[catholictiger]

No it is NOT possible to commit a grave sin without committing mortal sin.

Any more than one can be dead without being deceased.

The terms mean the same thing and get used in both an objective and subject way in Church documents.

This post was slightly misleading

There are 3 condtions that need to be meet in order for a sin to be mortal

1 grave matter (missing mass on Sunday or any day of obligation is a grave matter)
2 full knowledge (the person knows Mass on Sunday is moral obligation
3 Deliberate Consent (the person wills without pressure (there is a better word to explain how someone’s will isn’t not limited by some outside before) not to go to mass)

if all three conditions are met it is a mortal sin.

There are some examples of instances when someone can not go to mass on Sunday or a Holy day and NOT commit a mortal sin.

1. someone on December 8th has no knowledge that Mass is required today and that it is a holy day of obligation, they don’t go to mass. Lets reveiw the conditions 1 grave matter yes, 2 full knowledge no, Deliberate consent yes but not really. Example 1 isn’t a Mortal sin
2. a teenager who isn’t old enough to drive lives in a house hold who doesn’t practice their Catholic Faith. This kid wants to go to Sunday Mass but his family will not take him. 1) Grave Matter (possibly yes) 2) Full knowledge (yes) 3) Deliberate Consent (no if he had a choice he would go to mass that isn’t deliberate consent)
3. Someone is sick 1) grave matter (no) 2) full knowledge (yes) 3) Deliberate Consent (yes)

So grave sin doesn’t = mortal sin. The Catechism doesn’t use grave sin to explain mortal sin. IT would appear from a reading of the Catechism, grave matter means something that offends God greatly and is a serious thing, examples would be missing mass, hitting someone, killing someone, etc.

Let me conclude by saying this

if somone knows that going to mass on Sunday is an obligation, and this person has the full ability to go to mass, but still chooses not to attend mass, they have committed mortal sin.

there are a multitude of reasons someone will not meet all 3 requirements of mortal sin.

some I haven’t mentioned

1. Malformed conscious, if someone was never taught that Sunday was an obligation they would not have a properly formed conscious and it is possible that they would lose so much culpability that it would not be a mortal sin.
2. Somoene who when they were a kid knew they should go to Sunday Mass has had their conscious malformed by the environment around them, maybe by protestants, atheists, etc. Thsee people around them convince them that sunday mass is not an obligation. Their conscious would not hold that Sunday is a moral oblation. Therefore they wouldn’t have full knowledge meaning not a mortal sin.

Lastly about the priest who said that when people come to him fearing hell because they missed Sunday Mass. Let’s not jump to a conclusion that this priest is leading his people into sin. We do not know the conditions behind what people say and can’t know. If someone comes in and says Father I missed sunday Mass last week because I was feeling alittle under the weather am I going to hell? Father I was flying home from a buissness trip and wasn’t able to attend mass on Sunday am I going to hell? etc. If someone mentions something that would not require them to go to mass and those people think they may go to hell the priest very well could say that you are being scrupolous and you are not going to hell just because you miss mass. He may ask them if you feeling healthy and had every ability to go to mass would you go and they said yes these people are on a path to God.

Note sorry for the long post.

but grave matter doesn’t necessarily = mortal sin.

 

[catholictiger]

Yes that is true. Cause the Church uses the terms as synonyms.

Those who deliberately (here the knowledge is presupposed) do so commit a grave sin.

And what does one HAVE to confess? Grave sins (what is also called mortal sins).

I understand very much the confusion here --it pops up here from time time

---

A Few Examples of the Church interchanging the terms: They are synonyms.

CCC1385: “Anyone conscious of a **grave sin **must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.”

From: The Compendium of the Catechism issued by Pope Benedict XVI

"304. Which sins must be confessed?

1456

All grave sins not yet confessed, which a careful examination of conscience brings to mind, must be brought to the sacrament of Penance. The confession of** serious sins **is the only ordinary way to obtain forgiveness." (see also Canon Law …the term is used there too).

1. What is required to receive Holy Communion?

1385-1389
1415

To receive Holy Communion one must be fully incorporated into the Catholic Church and be in the state of grace, that is, not conscious of being in mortal sin. Anyone who is conscious of having committed a** grave sin** must first receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before going to Communion.

(note that one used BOTH to mean the same thing in the same paragraph… for variety in use of language in writing.)

---

“However, it must be remembered that the church, guided by faith in this great sacrament, teaches that no Christian who is conscious of **grave sin **can receive the eucharist before having obtained God’s forgiveness.”

Pope John Paul II Reconciliatio et Paenitentia 17

And in a speech from Pope John Paul II

“The sacrament of Penance is meant to take away personal sins committed after Baptism: first of all mortal sins, then venial. If the penitent has committed more than one mortal sin, they can only be remitted all at once. In fact, the remission of **serious sin **consists in the infusion of the sanctifying grace which has been lost, and grace is incompatible with any and every serious sin. Venial sins are to be regarded differently…”

and in ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA

“If a Christian’s conscience is burdened by serious sin, then the path of penance through the sacrament of Reconciliation becomes necessary for full participation in the Eucharistic Sacrifice.”

---

And Pope Benedict XVI in his Catecheses with Children said:

"Only in that case, when you are in a state of “mortal” sin, in other words, grave (sin), is it necessary to go to confession before Communion. This is my first point. " vatican.va/holy_father/be…ildren_en.html

---

grave sin = mortal sin = serious sin

after posting that long post it appears we agree

sorry for any confusion I may have put forward, its just the way that post came off made it sound like just because you miss mass means you commit a mortal sin.

 

[catholictiger]

It sounds like your priest is leading people to sin.

not necessarily

if people come to him in the confessional saying that they fear hell because they didn’t go to mass when they were sick wouldn’t he respond saying missing mass isn’t an instant ticket to hell. You don’t have to go to mass if you are sick.

I would bet that if you went up to the priest and asked him. Father if someone doesn’t go to mass and knows he should and purposefully doesn’t go wouldn’t he go to hell if he died before confessing that, he would respond yes. Then he would say that I wasn’t intending to say this what I was saying is that many people in the confessional believe that any reason for missing mass is a mortal sin. I was trying to reassure my people that there are reasons you can miss mass without it being a mortal sin.

If I’m wrong I hope someone talks to the priest and than the bishop about this priests grave error. I will then pray for this priest for his conversion and the conversion of the people in his parish.

 

[drforjc]

There is not some 3rd, less-than-mortal but worse then venial, category of sin called “grave” or “serious.”

There are 2 categories, mortal and venial.

In the CCC paragraph cited, “grave” is describing a sin that is mortal if all 3 conditions well-attested to earlier in this thread are present.

 

[catholictiger]

Forgetting to set your alarm is not a justifiable reason to miss Mass. Are you saying there are no other Masses during the day? If you miss the first Mass every effort must be made to go to another Mass.
If you jump in the car and find the battery is dead that would only be a reasonable excuse if there is no other way to get to any Mass!
Obviously sickness, accident, injury to you or your family that requires missing Mass is a reasonable reason to miss Mass assuming such a reason extends the entire day so you cannot get to any Mass.

doing something like the person explained would reduce culpability but wouldn’t not make it a sin.

 

[josh987654321]

Our priest says that we will not go to Hell for missing Mass. He says that is the biggest fear he hears in confession. He reassures us that it is not to be feared that missing Mass is an instant ticket to Hell.

It sounds like your priest is leading people to sin.

I believe it sounds like his priest doesn’t want people to attend mass out of fear, because instead I believe it should be out of love.

Please read my previous post - #25

If you hunger/thrist for the Mass, even if you do miss it, your not sinning, if you don’t hunger/thrist for the Mass, even if you do go, you will simply be paying lip service, “These people honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.” (Isaiah 29:13)

I believe people who attend mass out of fear, guilt or by feeling forced to, are honoring the lord with their lips but not with their hearts.

As I read somewhere “A Hail Mary said with your heart and all your being has more power than ten Rosaries said by those who recite their prayers in a merely routine fashion.”

it is actually kind of complex

first you are obligated to go to Sunday Mass.

you are not obligated to go to daily Mass.

There are some reasons that you can miss mass and it not be a sin.

1. you may be sick and going to Mass could put others health at risk.
2. You through no fault of your own are a long distance from any catholic parish and it would be to difficult for you to get to mass.
3. You have a job that makes it impossible for you to go to mass on Saturday or Sunday. (in this situation I would ask the boss if you could work Mass into your schedule.
4. You are traveling a long distance. (A valid reason I believe but its not hard to find a mass to go to on the road)
5. you are caring for infants or the sick and you can’t leave their side (the Catechism actually lists this as a serious reason which would allow you to miss mass)
   There could be many other reasons. But they must be serious and mostly out of your control.

but you must do your best to make sure you get to Mass EVERY Sunday. There are some exceptions but they should be grave reasons only and if it is a habit you should work to change that habit, with the exception of people who are home bound and maybe a couple others.

But this is how you see if its a sin.

1. is it Sunday?
2. did you have the ability to attend Sunday Mass
3. Did you purposely not go to Mass on Sunday. (note while forgetfulness would lessen your culpability it doesn’t take away the sin)

If you answered yes to all three go to confession ASAP.

I hope this helps

and to everyone if I made a mistake about valid reasons to miss mass please let me know.

While you are probably right, I believe, if you don’t emphasise why, the importance of Mass and why we should want to go, the enourmous gift we miss out on when we miss Mass (Christ warming our very hearts with his Eucharistic presence and coming down and feeding us with his body, blood, soul and divinity), than I believe you have made a mistake and I mean no offense, hard feelings or anything at all in saying that.

God Bless

Full disclosure - I have missed mass for every reason (and many more) listed above - and have been told every time in confession by different priests that I shouldn’t worry about it but just take care of the kids and do my best to make it to mass as often as I am able. (Which thankfully now is almost always).

Like I said, If you hunger/thrist for the Mass, even if you do miss it, your not sinning, if you don’t hunger/thrist for the Mass, even if you do go, you will simply be paying lip service, “These people honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.” (Isaiah 29:13)

If you & anyone else reading this doesn’t hunger/thrist for the Mass, if they don’t have that passion, than that is what I believe they need to focus on and most certainly not the sin of missing Mass, because it’s in that way where people attend Mass out of fear, guilt or by feeling forced to go, it’s how the Mass becomes some routine that lacks all enthusiasm, instead of another unique and loving encounter with our Lord Jesus Christ.

If you do not experience that hunger/thirst for the Mass, if you wish to light that passion, that fire inside you, than please read these two very short books. (They have given me a great desire for the Mass, for his Eucharistic presense).

The Holy Mass - loveandmercy.org/Eng-HM-Reg.pdf
In Adoration - loveandmercy.org/Eng-IA-Reg.pdf

For more information on the two books linked, please go here - youshallbelieve.com/

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[catholictiger]

While you are probably right, I believe, if you don’t emphasise why, the importance of Mass and why we should want to go, the enourmous gift we miss out on when we miss Mass (Christ warming our very hearts with his Eucharistic presence and coming down and feeding us with his body, blood, soul and divinity), than I believe you have made a mistake and I mean no offense, hard feelings or anything at all in saying that.

God Bless

yes this is a very good point

thank you

 

[Bookcat]

Doesn’t it make them different in that in the English grave and serious are matter of degree (one sin can be graver than another, for example) but mortal is mortal?

No.

There is only --venial sin and mortal sin.

(Between which there is an essential difference)

Can one grave sin (mortal sin) be worse than another? Yes certainly.

Abortion is going to be worse than various other mortal sins --though they are all mortal sins (all grave sins).

 

[crazzeto]

Missing Mass is objectively grave matter, if you know that missing Mass is objectively grave and you miss anyway for an unjust reason then you commit a mortal sin.

 

[Bookcat]

This post was slightly misleading

There are 3 condtions that need to be meet in order for a sin to be mortal

1 grave matter (missing mass on Sunday or any day of obligation is a grave matter)
2 full knowledge (the person knows Mass on Sunday is moral obligation
3 Deliberate Consent (the person wills without pressure (there is a better word to explain how someone’s will isn’t not limited by some outside before) not to go to mass)

if all three conditions are met it is a mortal sin.

There are some examples of instances when someone can not go to mass on Sunday or a Holy day and NOT commit a mortal sin. .

Without reading the long post (too long at the moment)

No it is not misleading what I noted is true and to the point.

“grave sin” =“mortal sin” =“serious sin”

No it is NOT possible to commit a grave sin without committing mortal sin.

Any more than one can be dead without being deceased.

The terms mean the same thing and get used in both an objective and subject way in Church documents.

---

If one has a grave matter – and one is lacking either the needed knowledge or the deliberate consent --one does NOT --does NOT commi]t a grave sin. One commits a venial sin.

Yes the thing itself is -in itself - a “grave sin” but one has not committed a grave sin one has committed a venial sin.

Hence it the language of “grave matter” is of particular help in such contexts.

 

[thistle]

doing something like the person explained would reduce culpability but wouldn’t not make it a sin.

It is NOT a sin if you have a good reason to miss Mass, e.g. you are sick or a family member is sick and you have to look after them. It is not a case of reduced culpability. Your obligation is dispensed with so it is not a sin at all.

 

[catholictiger]

It is NOT a sin if you have a good reason to miss Mass, e.g. you are sick or a family member is sick and you have to look after them. It is not a case of reduced culpability. Your obligation is dispensed with so it is not a sin at all.

they talked about forgetting to set an alarm that is what I was responding to sorry that I made it unclear.

someone who didn’t set an alarm and that caused them to miss mass is different then being sick and not going to mass.

 

[catholictiger]

Without reading the long post (too long at the moment)

No it is not misleading what I noted is true and to the point.

“grave sin” =“mortal sin” =“serious sin”

---

If one has a grave matter – and one is lacking either the needed knowledge or the deliberate consent --one does NOT --does NOT commi]t

a grave sin. One commits a venial sin.

Yes the thing itself is -in itself - a “grave sin” but one has not committed a grave sin one has committed a venial sin.

Hence it the language of “grave matter” is of particular help in such contexts.

I’ll rephrase at first I misread your post I thought that you said that grave matter is the same as mortal sin or something like that.

Sorry about that

God Bless