Missing mass: grave sin or mortal sin?

[Bookcat]

after posting that long post it appears we agree

sorry for any confusion I may have put forward, its just the way that post came off made it sound like just because you miss mass means you commit a mortal sin.

No worries…

 

[Bookcat]

I’ll rephrase at first I misread your post I thought that you said that grave matter is the same as mortal sin or something like that.

Sorry about that

God Bless

 

[ElectricMayhem]

So, by definition, committing adultery and missing Mass are equivalent?

 

[ProVobis]

So, by definition, committing adultery and missing Mass are equivalent?

Assuming all three conditions are met, only as far as that they both must be confessed as well as the other implications (Hell, not receiving communion, etc.)

And then you must determine where the line is between a mortal sin and a venial sin. How much money do you need to steal or from whom, for example, in order that it’s mortal? (Semantically speaking, stealing $100,000 is graver than stealing $10,000, and stealing $10,000 is graver than $10, though the $10 may not be a mortal sin.)

 

[Bookcat]

So, by definition, committing adultery and missing Mass are equivalent?

No. They are different mortal sins.

But they are both mortal.

 

[Country_Gal]

I don’t believe God puts this much emphasis on attendance when there are so many other more pressing matters in the world. This hairsplitting legalism doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[Bookcat]

I don’t believe God puts this much emphasis on attendance when there are so many other more pressing matters in the world.

God does.

Sort of like saying I do not think a parent puts much emphasis on his kids eating …

…so long as they get into a good school…

 

[Country_Gal]

God does.

Sort of like saying I do not think a parent puts much emphasis on his kids eating …

…so long as they get into a good school…

I very much disagree. I think going to Mass should be a fortifier and strengthener of the soul to go back to the world and live the Gospel of Jesus Christ fully, and be a witness to the truth. This idea that attendance at church itself is the most important aspect of the faith, in my opinion, is wrong. In fact, from reading the Gospels, it appears that Jesus was trying to de emphasize public expressions of religiosity in favour of real, inner spiritual awakening.

I’m not going to argue endlessly on this thread, I know I’m outnumbered and outgunned. But, this type of legalism detracts from Catholicism in my mind.

 

[Bookcat]

I very much disagree. I think going to Mass should be a fortifier and strengthener of the soul to go back to the world and live the Gospel of Jesus Christ fully, and be a witness to the truth. This idea that attendance at church itself is the most important aspect of the faith, in my opinion, is wrong. In fact, from reading the Gospels, it appears that Jesus was trying to de emphasize public expressions of religiosity in favour of real, inner spiritual awakening.

I’m not going to argue endlessly on this thread, I know I’m outnumbered and outgunned. But, this type of legalism detracts from Catholicism in my mind.

The legalism is in the imagination. The reality of the Eucharist is beyond estimation.

Jesus is there. It is his sacrifice. The Risen Lord feeds his sheep.

The Eucharist is the body and blood of the Logos --the Lord the Son of God. A Christian receives the Jesus in Holy Communion.

Yes the Eucharist is the source and summit of the Christian life.

As Jesus himself says too - by receiving the Eucharist his disciples have* life*.

 

[ElectricMayhem]

Assuming all three conditions are met, only as far as that they both must be confessed as well as the other implications (Hell, not receiving communion, etc.)

And then you must determine where the line is between a mortal sin and a venial sin. How much money do you need to steal or from whom, for example, in order that it’s mortal? (Semantically speaking, stealing $100,000 is graver than stealing $10,000, and stealing $10,000 is graver than $10, though the $10 may not be a mortal sin.)

So, assuming I have committed both adultery and missed Mass…which is worse?

 

[Bookcat]

I.

“The mystery of faith!” With these words, spoken immediately after the words of consecration, the priest proclaims the mystery being celebrated and expresses his wonder before the substantial change of bread and wine into the body and blood of the Lord Jesus, a reality which surpasses all human understanding. The Eucharist is a “mystery of faith” par excellence: “the sum and summary of our faith.” (13) The Church’s faith is essentially a eucharistic faith, and it is especially nourished at the table of the Eucharist."

~ Pope Benedict XVI (from his Apostolic exhortation on the subject)

 

[Bookcat]

I .

“At the beginning of the fourth century, Christian worship was still forbidden by the imperial authorities. Some Christians in North Africa, who felt bound to celebrate the Lord’s Day, defied the prohibition. They were martyred after declaring that it was not possible for them to live without the Eucharist, the food of the Lord: sine dominico non possumus. (252) May these martyrs of Abitinae, in union with all those saints and beati who made the Eucharist the centre of their lives, intercede for us and teach us to be faithful to our encounter with the risen Christ. We too cannot live without partaking of the sacrament of our salvation; we too desire to be iuxta dominicam viventes, to reflect in our lives what we celebrate on the Lord’s Day. That day is the day of our definitive deliverance. Is it surprising, then, that we should wish to live every day in that newness of life which Christ has brought us in the mystery of the Eucharist?”

~ Pope Benedict XVI (Sacrament of Charity)

 

[Bookcat]

So, assuming I have committed both adultery and missed Mass…which is worse?

Assuming I have both strangled one person and shot another --both to death --which is worse? God will sort it out. No need for us to really worry about weighing such -what is needful is repentance and confession and penance – to turn from sin and towards the Lord so we may have life.

 

[Bookcat]

I .

“At the beginning of the fourth century, Christian worship was still forbidden by the imperial authorities. Some Christians in North Africa, who felt bound to celebrate the Lord’s Day, defied the prohibition. They were martyred after declaring that it was not possible for them to live without the Eucharist, the food of the Lord: sine dominico non possumus. (252) May these martyrs of Abitinae, in union with all those saints and beati who made the Eucharist the centre of their lives, intercede for us and teach us to be faithful to our encounter with the risen Christ. We too cannot live without partaking of the sacrament of our salvation; we too desire to be iuxta dominicam viventes, to reflect in our lives what we celebrate on the Lord’s Day. That day is the day of our definitive deliverance. Is it surprising, then, that we should wish to live every day in that newness of life which Christ has brought us in the mystery of the Eucharist?”

~ Pope Benedict XVI (Sacrament of Charity)

 

[ElectricMayhem]

Assuming I have both strangled one person and shot another --both to death --which is worse? God will sort it out. No need for us to really worry about weighing such -what is needful is repentance and confession and penance – to turn from sin and towards the Lord so we may have life.

So, if I commit adultery and miss Mass, God will sort it out?

 

[Bookcat]

So, if I commit adultery and miss Mass, God will sort it out?

Sure God knows what is what- always.

You should repent and confess your sins accordingly (if you ever did such~!) turning towards the Lord so you may have true life.

 

[Bookcat]

“At the beginning of the fourth century, Christian worship was still forbidden by the imperial authorities. Some Christians in North Africa, who felt bound to celebrate the Lord’s Day, defied the prohibition. They were martyred after declaring that it was not possible for them to live without the Eucharist, the food of the Lord: sine dominico non possumus. (252) May these martyrs of Abitinae, in union with all those saints and beati who made the Eucharist the centre of their lives, intercede for us and teach us to be faithful to our encounter with the risen Christ. We too cannot live without partaking of the sacrament of our salvation; we too desire to be iuxta dominicam viventes, to reflect in our lives what we celebrate on the Lord’s Day. That day is the day of our definitive deliverance. Is it surprising, then, that we should wish to live every day in that newness of life which Christ has brought us in the mystery of the Eucharist?”

~ Pope Benedict XVI (Sacrament of Charity)

 

[Country_Gal]

I very much disagree. I think going to Mass should be a fortifier and strengthener of the soul to go back to the world and live the Gospel of Jesus Christ fully, and be a witness to the truth. This idea that attendance at church itself is the most important aspect of the faith, in my opinion, is wrong. In fact, from reading the Gospels, it appears that **Jesus was trying to de emphasize public expressions of religiosity in favour of real, inner spiritual awakening. **

I’m not going to argue endlessly on this thread, I know I’m outnumbered and outgunned. But, this type of legalism detracts from Catholicism in my mind.

 

[Bookcat]

…

One must see the reality involved…

See the quotes above, the Catechism and other documents that go into the deep mystery of the Eucharist – which is indeed Jesus himself.

As the early martyrs put it - without the Lords Day (the Sunday Eucharist) it is not possible to live.

 

[dshix]

No it is NOT possible to commit a grave sin without committing mortal sin.

Any more than one can be dead without being deceased.

The terms mean the same thing and get used in both an objective and subject way in Church documents.

Sometimes there is some confusion here on terms.

Mortal sin = Serious sin = Grave sin

The Church uses these terms in two senses…

-snip-

This post was slightly misleading

There are 3 condtions that need to be meet in order for a sin to be mortal…

-snip-

Without reading the long post (too long at the moment)

No it is not misleading what I noted is true and to the point.

“grave sin” =“mortal sin” =“serious sin”

Bookcat, I’m not exactly sure if you are ignoring what we are saying, or if you just don’t understand. catholictiger and I have both said the same thing, and you have done nothing to oppose our opinions but state repeatedly that “mortal” and “grave” are synonymous terms.

I’m sorry, but they are not synonymous terms in English, and until you prove otherwise, they aren’t synonymous in Church teaching, either. A sin, however grave, is NOT mortal until all three conditions are present.

Read that sentence three times. Do you get it?