Missing mass with relatives in town?

[Moore11]

I did read the thread - that’s how I reached my conclusion. Which part did I miss?

But, when it is the case, then one is excused from Sunday obligation, as per the Catechism. There is no “burden of proof” required of the carer, as if they were guilty until proven innocent.

Oh, you got the part about it being about an infant,
then about sleeping without a door, then about offending guests, then about thousands of dollars. All for one hour on a weekend. I’ll bet if it was an hour to get a sandwich everything would have been ok. Notice a pattern here.

 

[catharina]

I did read the thread - that’s how I reached my conclusion. Which part did I miss?

But, when it is the case, then one is excused from Sunday obligation, as per the Catechism. There is no “burden of proof” required of the carer, as if they were guilty until proven innocent.

Abandoning one’s children is not even a possibilty
when there are THREE other adults in the household.

 

[Moore11]

Wrong. A Catholic who is serious about his or her faith would NOT miss Mass for months! You are pulling these conditions out of the air (I would say something else but it would get me suspended)!

Whatever, LaSainte. You feel justified in your excuses. Nothing is going to change that mind of yours, just as you never budged in your other thread. I don’t know why you come here to argue when your mind is made up.

“Don’t bother giving me the truth, my mind is made up!”

I have yet to hear of a cruise that lasted for months, with no ports in places that offer Mass and no priest on board. We have a retired priest in our diocese who spent YEARS on cruise ships being the Chaplain. The OP is just getting more and more illogical.
It does not matter even if there was such a cruise, the OP should have gone to Mass. It is becoming more and more obvious what is going on here and harder and harder to come up with charitable situations that exonerate the OP.

 

[LaSainte]

It says that we can miss Mass to care for infants. It seems to me that that’s what you did. To attend Mass you would have had to leave your children with people who were unwilling to accept that responsibility.

Could you have done it better? Maybe yes, or maybe no. All this Monday morning coaching may be helpful for next time (or may not be), but it doesn’t change what has happened - that you stayed at home to care for infants - which is a valid reason to miss Mass.

You are not expected to leave your children with other people who will resent the imposition - even if their resentment is misplaced. That would be an offence against them.

To miss Mass on Sunday is not always a sin, compared with say, fornication, where we have to always do the right thing regardless of cost, embarrassment, or burden on others. We should not put an unwanted burden on others to fulfil our own Sunday obligation. If we **could **have planned better to avoid the situation, then it is the lack of planning which is the defect (possibly) - but still we have to do the best thing in the situation as it is, not as it should be, ideally.

Thank you. You seem to understand the situation better than most here. Yes, it would have been an imposition on my mom to leave the kids with her while I went to mass. She loves my kids to death, but the idea of me just skipping out and leaving her with the kids to deal with so that I could go off for 2 hours would have been frowned upon. You have to understand the dynamics of the situation to fully understand why, but suffice it to say that my mom is not very understanding or supportive of my faith choices.

 

[maryjk]

Home improvements that would have delayed us being able to put our house on the market for 6 weeks at a minimum, possibly costing thousands of dollars.

An hour, maybe two, would have put off selling your house 6 weeks?? Do you think that none of us have ever sold a house? Or never done home improvements? Sorry, I have done both and neither are a reason to miss Mass.

Again, I can apparently take a cruise around the world and miss mass for MONTHS, but can’t miss for one day because of something that absolutely HAD to be done for my family? I don’t get it.

Where ever did you get the impression that you could sail around the world and miss Mass for months?

You don’t think you did anything wrong. Why on earth would you ask if you did? When I have missed Mass, I don’t ask everyone’s opinion. Why would I, if I thought I was justifiable in missing Mass?

 

[LaSainte]

I have yet to hear of a cruise that lasted for months, with no ports in places that offer Mass and no priest on board. We have a retired priest in our diocese who spent YEARS on cruise ships being the Chaplain. The OP is just getting more and more illogical.
It does not matter even if there was such a cruise, the OP should have gone to Mass. It is becoming more and more obvious what is going on here and harder and harder to come up with charitable situations that exonerate the OP.

My point is that it is a well-known fact that a Catholic can go on a vacation to say, climb mount Kilamanjaro and is not obligated to attend mass, even indefinitely if it would present great difficulty.

So how is it that in a situation where family work obligations make it extremely difficult, it’s a mortal sin?

 

[Moore11]

Thank you. You seem to understand the situation better than most here. Yes, it would have been an imposition on my mom to leave the kids with her while I went to mass. She loves my kids to death, but the idea of me just skipping out and leaving her with the kids to deal with so that I could go off for 2 hours would have been frowned upon. You have to understand the dynamics of the situation to fully understand why, but suffice it to say that my mom is not very understanding or supportive of my faith choices.

Which only goes to the point of witnessing.
Look, there was witnessing going on. Your mom witnessed to the world and against your faith, you witness to your faith. Who won this weekend? Your mom. She was an effective witness. I have yet to understand what awful people would help you move but keep you from feeding your soul. If they truly do not support your faith, then why are you letting them support your move?

I’ll help you hang a door and save you money but will not help you go to Mass just doesnt sound right.

We will probably never get the whole story but I think we know it anyway.
Just to let you know. This happens to me all the time. I fail. I fall, and I do not do what I should. ESPECIALLY when it comes to my anti religious family. It is so hard to have parents, and family that not only dont share your faith but are hostile to it.
The difference is that I have learned to be honest with myself when I fail and when I “Peter” out with my family. ( I do not know the Man.) And I have learned to accept the failings, and try to do better rather than rationalize them and excuse myself away. (what good does that do for my soul?)

 

[PatriceA]

Thank you. You seem to understand the situation better than most here. Yes, it would have been an imposition on my mom to leave the kids with her while I went to mass. She loves my kids to death, but the idea of me just skipping out and leaving her with the kids to deal with so that I could go off for 2 hours would have been frowned upon. You have to understand the dynamics of the situation to fully understand why, but suffice it to say that my mom is not very understanding or supportive of my faith choices.

Just “frowned upon” or would she have been totally imposed to the idea? You’re right, I don’t understand the dynamics because I recall from another thread you saying how great your mom is with helping you out in so many ways and that factoring into where you were planning to move.

I echo what maryjk has said, why did you bother to post this scenerio at all if you were totally convinced you had grave reasons to miss mass? I don’t think your conscious is as clear on the subject as you think you are.

 

[Cristiano]

My point is that it is a well-known fact that a Catholic can go on a vacation to say, climb mount Kilamanjaro and is not obligated to attend mass, even indefinitely if it would present great difficulty.

So how is it that in a situation where family work obligations make it extremely difficult, it’s a mortal sin?

It is not a well known fact. The individual must obtain dispensation from the pastor ahead of time. It is possible but it is not guaranteed, it is the pastor that makes the decision and not the faithful.

 

[PatriceA]

My point is that it is a well-known fact that a Catholic can go on a vacation to say, climb mount Kilamanjaro and is not obligated to attend mass, even indefinitely if it would present great difficulty.

So how is it that in a situation where family work obligations make it extremely difficult, it’s a mortal sin?

Because the Catholic going on a such a detailed journey or vacation gets dispensation from their priest.

 

[catharina]

My point is that it is a well-known fact that a Catholic can go on a vacation to say, climb mount Kilamanjaro and is not obligated to attend mass, even indefinitely if it would present great difficulty.

So how is it that in a situation where family work obligations make it extremely difficult, it’s a mortal sin?

It’s not a well-known fact to me.
I’ve never even heard of it. Where
do you find such justifications?

 

[catharina]

It is not a well known fact. The individual must obtain dispensation from the pastor ahead of time. It is possible but it is not guaranteed, it is the pastor that makes the decision and not the faithful.

Because the Catholic going on a such a detailed journey or vacation gets dispensation from their priest.

Thanks to both of you.

 

[maryjk]

My point is that it is a well-known fact that a Catholic can go on a vacation to say, climb mount Kilamanjaro and is not obligated to attend mass, even indefinitely if it would present great difficulty.

Yes, if you talk to your pastor BEFORE hand. I have done it. I was staying in a hotel without a car. The town wasn’t the safest, so walking wasn’t an option. In fact, I casually said something about looking at Masstimes for a Mass, and my pastor told me not to go to Mass.

But it happened before I left on my trip.

So how is it that in a situation where family work obligations make it extremely difficult, it’s a mortal sin?

 

[Moore11]

My point is that it is a well-known fact that a Catholic can go on a vacation to say, climb mount Kilamanjaro and is not obligated to attend mass, even indefinitely if it would present great difficulty.

So how is it that in a situation where family work obligations make it extremely difficult, it’s a mortal sin?

You are missing the whole point and just focusing on the “rule” not the “why” of the rule. You should feel shame when justifying this way when put in light of those who CANNOT go to Mass because they are in an oppressive area, at war, or incapacitated. Your problems were only impediments in your own mind. I know many people who go to Mass with harder problems that you have. In some places, people risk their lives for attending something you are trivializing as a Mt kilamjaro reason to miss Mass. Your reasoning is getting farther and farther out there and you obviously have some anger about this situation. As do I. So I am going to bow out. Good luck to you. You have been given sound advice here.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Home improvements that would have delayed us being able to put our house on the market for 6 weeks at a minimum, possibly costing thousands of dollars.

Again, I can apparently take a cruise around the world and miss mass for MONTHS, but can’t miss for one day because of something that absolutely HAD to be done for my family? I don’t get it.

No, you really can’t just waltz off on a cruise for months and not go to Mass the entire time. Not without a prior dispensation from your pastor. It is very unlikely anyway that someone on a cruise for several weeks (or months) would never be able to attend a Sunday Mass. The ship does dock. And many ships carry chaplins, including Catholic priests. Many people go to great lengths to attend Mass when they are on vacation.

There are indeed legit reasons for missing Mass. If you missed for one of those reasons (several of which we’ve discussed on this thread) then you are excused your obligation. There is then no reason to come here and ask questions.

I will remember you in my prayers tonight. You are trying to do the right thing, but you seem overly concerned about following rules and don’t understand enough about why the rules are there and how they help us.

 

[catharina]

No, you really can’t just waltz off on a cruise for months and not go to Mass the entire time. Not without a prior dispensation from your pastor. It is very unlikely anyway that someone on a cruise for several weeks (or months) would never be able to attend a Sunday Mass. The ship does dock. And many ships carry chaplins, including Catholic priests. Many people go to great lengths to attend Mass when they are on vacation.

There are indeed legit reasons for missing Mass. If you missed for one of those reasons (several of which we’ve discussed on this thread) then you are excused your obligation. There is then no reason to come here and ask questions.

I will remember you in my prayers tonight. You are trying to do the right thing, but you seem overly concerned about following rules and don’t understand enough about why the rules are there and how they help us.

… and yet the question WAS asked by the OP:

“Is this a valid reason for missing for both of us?”

Almost unanimous consclusion reached (since she asked):

NO.

So, La Sainte, please do remember: you asked.

 

[LaSainte]

You are missing the whole point and just focusing on the “rule” not the “why” of the rule. You should feel shame when justifying this way when put in light of those who CANNOT go to Mass because they are in an oppressive area, at war, or incapacitated. Your problems were only impediments in your own mind. I know many people who go to Mass with harder problems that you have. In some places, people risk their lives for attending something you are trivializing as a Mt kilamjaro reason to miss Mass. Your reasoning is getting farther and farther out there and you obviously have some anger about this situation. As do I. So I am going to bow out. Good luck to you. You have been given sound advice here.

I’m not angry at all. I do get annoyed with people who put burdens on us that the Church itself does not. I KNOW I am dispensed, just by virtue of having to care for my children. We are not obligated to impose on others or find babysitters etc. to make it to mass. If we choose to, great, but it is not an obligation.

My question was regarding my husband who actually came to me later without my saying a word about it and apologized that everything went the way it did with the door breaking and everything else that prevented us from attending mass as a family so that they could get the door on the house before my parents had to leave town. I was fairly certain that he was perfectly innocent, considering all the extenuating circumstances, but I was looking for a CCC quote or a quote from a paper or just a theological opinion that had some basis in Truth, not just emotional gut reactions and "tsk"ing about how we could have planned better.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

… and yet the question WAS asked by the OP:

“Is this a valid reason for missing for both of us?”

Almost unanimous consclusion reached (since she asked):

NO.

I know. Still more reason to pray. If this is how she approaches many things then it is no wonder she is getting push back from others when she does try to attend Mass. It appears that everything is an argument.

 

[catharina]

I’m not angry at all. I do get annoyed with people who put burdens on us that the Church itself does not. I KNOW I am dispensed, just by virtue of having to care for my children. We are not obligated to impose on others or find babysitters etc. to make it to mass. If we choose to, great, but it is not an obligation.

My question was regarding my husband who actually came to me later without my saying a word about it and apologized that everything went the way it did with the door breaking and everything else that prevented us from attending mass as a family so that they could get the door on the house before my parents had to leave town. I was fairly certain that he was perfectly innocent, considering all the extenuating circumstances, but I was looking for a CCC quote or a quote from a paper or just a theological opinion that had some basis in Truth, not just emotional gut reactions and "tsk"ing about how we could have planned better.

Oh brother.

No. Your question was this:
“Is this a valid reason for missing for both of us?”

Four adults.
Two small children.
So neither you (nor he?) could attend Mass???

Please!

 

[catharina]

I know. Still more reason to pray. If this is how she approaches many things then it is no wonder she is getting push back from others when she does try to attend Mass. It appears that everything is an argument.

I know. She asked a specific question.
Other posters have given very specific answers.
Yet for TEN pages, she has argued against the answers?

What the heck is that about???
Why in the name of heaven did she ASK?

Le Sainte. For the fourth time, (?) why did you open this thread?