Missing People

[unacanta]

I have found people missing!
Jn12:32
And I 2504>,if <1437>I be lifted up <5312> (5686)from <1537>the earth<1093>,will draw <1670> (5692)all <3956>[men] unto <4314>me <1683>_.
NET © Notes

1. tn Grk “all.” The word “people” is not in the Greek text but is supplied for stylistic reasons and for clarity (cf. KJV “all men”).
2. The numbers represent the Strong’s numbers for the greek words.

I have noticed the in Greek Text the word men is indeed missing in this passage. Most of the commentary I have read simply states as the NET Notes do that the word men is not in the passage but has been added clarity.
If one removes the word you will find and I will use the NASB for example, the following:
“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to Myself.”
The question would be “all what”? We find the answer in the context of the passage before and after.
31"Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
32"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."
33But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die.

It mystifies me why the translators are adding the word people or men when clearly the text is saying that Jesus will draw judgment, not men. The death He was to die was a sacrifice. Yes, I do realize the word men is placed there with the thought of Moses in the desert and the snakes biting and killing the children of Israel.

The idea that Jesus is drawing men to Himself is a Godly principal and I am not discounting it. Just seems to me we should stick to the text and not read into it something which is not meant. With the placement of the word men in the text it draws our attention away form the judgment which is why Christ was on the cross. Since judgment is the subject in vs 31 there is nothing in the text which would change the subject to men in vs 32. If a word is to placed in the text for clarity, why not judgemnet which is the original subject of the passage.

I think if a word is to be added it should read:

32"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all judgment to Myself."

Any thoughts out there???
Una

 

[John_Hiner]

Laudatur Iesus Christus.

Dear Una:

The text does not have a separate word for “people” because this idea is contained in the Greek word “pantas” which is translated as “all men.”* In Greek, as in Latin, adjectives have different forms to indicate number, gender, and case. When adjectives are matched to nouns, one can tell which words go together by noting which are matched in number, gender, and case. However, often, adjectives are used alone when the noun which they modify is easily understood.

We sometimes do this in English, but not as often as in Greek or Latin. For example consider the English sentence: The students came in and lined up for the picture, shortest in front and tallest in back. In this sentence, it is clear that the adjectives “shortest” and “tallest” refer to the students, and so we are not required to say, “shortest students” or “tallest ones.” The separate noun is not required.

In the passage you indicate in the Gospel of St. John, the word “pantas” in Greek has the root meaning of “all,” but it is also in the masculine, plural, accusative form. This lets us know that it is the object of the verb (accusative) and that it refers not to all objects (neuter) or all women (feminine), but to all men (masculine). (Please note, the ancient convention was to understand the masculine plural to include the feminine, if the context called for this; so “pantas” can also be rendered “all people” or “everyone.”)

Hence, when reading “pantas” in this passage, a Greek reader would not think “all judgment” or even “all judgments” because the word used for “judgment” in the previous verse, “crisis,” is a feminine, singular noun. If St. John had meant “all judgments” he would have written “pasas” or for “all judgment,” “pasan,” depending on whether he chose the plural or the singular.

It is quite clear, however, that the word “pantas” is a masculine plural. It therefore is fairly rendered “all men” or “everyone” in English.

I hope this is helpful.

My Greek is not as fluent as I would like; anyone with better skill, please feel free to supplement or correct what I have said.

Pax Christi nobiscum.

John Hiner

---

*The complete declension of the Greek word “pas,” which is the root word for “pantas,” can be found in William W. Goodwin’s *Greek Grammar *(1892), (available as a “pdf” file at textkit.com/learn/ID/100/author_id/38/) see page 69 of the text, which is page 105 in the “pdf” file copy.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The word “all” is associated with “world”. The reason “literal” translations supply the word “men” is because women were not counted in the biblical world, they were assumed to be there with their men. Loose translations supply the word “people” because it is people who make up those in the world.

 

[unacanta]

Laudatur Iesus Christus.

Dear Una:

The text does not have a separate word for “people” because this idea is contained in the Greek word “pantas” which is translated as “all men.”* In Greek, as in Latin, adjectives have different forms to indicate number, gender, and case. When adjectives are matched to nouns, one can tell which words go together by noting which are matched in number, gender, and case. However, often, adjectives are used alone when the noun which they modify is easily understood.

We sometimes do this in English, but not as often as in Greek or Latin. For example consider the English sentence: The students came in and lined up for the picture, shortest in front and tallest in back. In this sentence, it is clear that the adjectives “shortest” and “tallest” refer to the students, and so we are not required to say, “shortest students” or “tallest ones.” The separate noun is not required.

In the passage you indicate in the Gospel of St. John, the word “pantas” in Greek has the root meaning of “all,” but it is also in the masculine, plural, accusative form. This lets us know that it is the object of the verb (accusative) and that it refers not to all objects (neuter) or all women (feminine), but to all men (masculine). (Please note, the ancient convention was to understand the masculine plural to include the feminine, if the context called for this; so “pantas” can also be rendered “all people” or “everyone.”)

Hence, when reading “pantas” in this passage, a Greek reader would not think “all judgment” or even “all judgments” because the word used for “judgment” in the previous verse, “crisis,” is a feminine, singular noun. If St. John had meant “all judgments” he would have written “pasas” or for “all judgment,” “pasan,” depending on whether he chose the plural or the singular.

It is quite clear, however, that the word “pantas” is a masculine plural. It therefore is fairly rendered “all men” or “everyone” in English.

I hope this is helpful.

My Greek is not as fluent as I would like; anyone with better skill, please feel free to supplement or correct what I have said.

Pax Christi nobiscum.

John Hiner

---

*The complete declension of the Greek word “pas,” which is the root word for “pantas,” can be found in William W. Goodwin’s *Greek Grammar *(1892), (available as a “pdf” file at textkit.com/learn/ID/100/author_id/38/) see page 69 of the text, which is page 105 in the “pdf” file copy.

Very well done and muchly appreciated for sure. The answer seems to be the most plausable, it makes since as someone who studied spanish I can appreciate what you are saying. Understanding the Greek and Spanish are very different yet the concept is there.

I am greatful for the link as I am just starting to study the language and any help I can get is awesome.

Thank you again,
Len

 

[COPLAND_3]

pantas, is an adjective, and it is functioning substantivally in this passage, and you translate it by its function, which is masculine plural accusative. If the adjective is not modifying something, then it is functioning adjectively, but if it functioning substantivally like it is in 12:32, then you add the noun. If 12:32 had pasas, it would be “all women” because it would be feminine, if it read **panta **it would read “all things” because it would be neuter.