Missionaries to muslims

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Well, there is a matter of perception. Let me give you an example.

My cousin was in the army in the 1990s. He is not Catholic. Anyway, they were sent to Latin America after a hurricane to provide help. There were injured people within a mile of a Catholic Hospital who would not go. Why? Because some missionaries had come down there and helped them convert to "Christianity.’ Anyway, they felt that they could not go to the Catholic Hospital, or the Catholic Schools, anymore. When a non-Catholic denomination heads up a trip to “preach the Gospel to those who have not heard it,” that is fine. When they go to a place that is already majority Catholic, it is an anti-Catholic endevour, even if that is not the intent.

A couple of years ago, my cousin was in his baptist Sunday school class when they started raising money for a mission trip down there. He hit the roof. He tried to explain to them how this was not really helping, as you go for two weeks and leave a lifetime of issues downthere. Besides, Catholics are Christians. He had to change Sunday School classes. The teacher began to explain that Catholics were not Christians, and my cousin was about to hit him.

Now, the other point, about being anti-CAtholic. That term is thrown about too freely on here. You can disagree with the Church without being anti-Catholic. I do find it interesting that your church never discusses the Catholic Church. After all, where did Christianity, the Bible, and all that come from? If you do not know the history of the Catholic Church, you do not know the history of Christianity or the history of the world.
lol, then Catholics shouldn’t be allowed to come near me, cause no Catholics live near me, we are all Baptist, CoC, and Methodist…that is dumb. If we made it where a certain denomination cannot come near another, then how are we going to live with one another?

Yes, it did come from the Catholic Church, but I am honestly tired of people acting like I didn’t know that.
 
lol, then Catholics shouldn’t be allowed to come near me, cause no Catholics live near me, we are all Baptist, CoC, and Methodist…that is dumb. If we made it where a certain denomination cannot come near another, then how are we going to live with one another?
That is not what the point was. The point is that if someone’s entire life is based on an interaction with a certain church, and you do something to alter that interaction, you owe it to that person to assist in them building a new life. These missionaries at times prey on an uneducated, unsophisticated populace who are then lost once they think they have left the Catholic CHurch.
Yes, it did come from the Catholic Church, but I am honestly tired of people acting like I didn’t know that.
You would be surprised how many people do not know that. I have been told, almost once a year, that John the Baptist was the first baptist.
 
… I said Protestant missionaries are nicer than Catholic ones, and that’s been my experience… does that bother you? …
:yup:
Very much. I won’t say it’s your fault, but it bothers me nevertheless.
 
This post is for jen fla Post #130.

Please remember that Islam teaches the safety of every one. If the house of a christian is on fire, it is the duty of the Muslims to help put out the fire. If any one (may be a mob) is trying to burn the house of a christian or a Jew, it is the duty of the muslims to attempt to stop them at all cost.

It is the duty of the Muslims to protect the places of worship pf any and every faith. There is a verse of the Quran about that.

If any Muslim will disagree with me about what I have written above then it is not for me to agree to him. That is because I am telling the truth about Islam. Islam teaches complete love and no hatred.
 
Please remember that Islam teaches the safety of every one. If the house of a christian is on fire, it is the duty of the Muslims to help put out the fire. If any one (may be a mob) is trying to burn the house of a christian or a Jew, it is the duty of the muslims to attempt to stop them at all cost
Do you remember the tsunami of 2004? Yes, Muslims did not give a helping hand to the Christian communities there. Nor did they sympathise with the Christians. Instead, they boasted on how God was punishing the Indonesian Christians. A Shar’ia judge even proclaimed that “The tsunami was because of the sins of the people of Aceh” and that “The Holy Koran says that if women are good, then a country is good.”

Even worse, a Muslim leader proclaimed that if any Christian charity worker were to attempt to “spread Christianity” would be killed.

I also remember when aid from other countries started pouring in. None of the first few organizations were Muslim. The Muslims (from other countries) only started giving aid when pressured by the media.
 
This post is for jen fla Post #130.

Please remember that Islam teaches the safety of every one. If the house of a christian is on fire, it is the duty of the Muslims to help put out the fire. If any one (may be a mob) is trying to burn the house of a christian or a Jew, it is the duty of the muslims to attempt to stop them at all cost.

It is the duty of the Muslims to protect the places of worship pf any and every faith. There is a verse of the Quran about that.

If any Muslim will disagree with me about what I have written above then it is not for me to agree to him. That is because I am telling the truth about Islam. Islam teaches complete love and no hatred.
Therein lies the problem. Based on my experience, the number of militiant Islamist Muslims is low, but the number of those who will stand up to them is also low, with the vast majority wiling to concede Islamic credentialing to the extremists.
 
Do you remember the tsunami of 2004? Yes, Muslims did not give a helping hand to the Christian communities there. Nor did they sympathise with the Christians. Instead, they boasted on how God was punishing the Indonesian Christians. A Shar’ia judge even proclaimed that “The tsunami was because of the sins of the people of Aceh” and that “The Holy Koran says that if women are good, then a country is good.”

Even worse, a Muslim leader proclaimed that if any Christian charity worker were to attempt to “spread Christianity” would be killed.

I also remember when aid from other countries started pouring in. None of the first few organizations were Muslim. The Muslims (from other countries) only started giving aid when pressured by the media.
Dear Bro Cathologist,
Many muslims who live in Aceh are very fanatic but many muslims who lives in Indonesia are good too. And please don’t forget that many Indonesian people are uneducated and they can be easily to be brainwashed.

Peace
 
Come, come, Sister Amy, you’re not here to learn about Catholicism, you’re here to sell Islam to us.
I’m pretty sure that it is haraam for a person to sell his religion. Pretty sure. I’m not getting paid. I’m volunteering my time here, and I talk about Islam, and tell the truth about it. But the main reason I’m here is to try to be nice to you. 🤷
 
Do you remember the tsunami of 2004? Yes, Muslims did not give a helping hand to the Christian communities there. Nor did they sympathise with the Christians. Instead, they boasted on how God was punishing the Indonesian Christians. A Shar’ia judge even proclaimed that “The tsunami was because of the sins of the people of Aceh” and that “The Holy Koran says that if women are good, then a country is good.”

Even worse, a Muslim leader proclaimed that if any Christian charity worker were to attempt to “spread Christianity” would be killed.

I also remember when aid from other countries started pouring in. None of the first few organizations were Muslim. The Muslims (from other countries) only started giving aid when pressured by the media.
Are you sure about that?

saudiembassy.net/2005News/Statements/StateDetail.asp?cIndex=493

Just one that comes to mind. Muslims also give charitably to major organizational relief efforts like Islamic Relief and the Red Crescent.

It sounds like you’re trying to say that the Muslims were stingy because the victims were Christian, but Muslims have an obligation to help all people who are suffering, and they do. Islamic Relief was in New Orleans after Katrina, for example. And while I don’t doubt that you can find some random “shari’ judge” who might say something crazy, I guarantee you that does not represent the feelings of most Muslims.

edited: there was a statement in this post that I checked and determined to be factually inaccurate (on my part) so I removed it.
 
Booklover;3991761:
Come, come, Sister Amy, you’re not here to learn about Catholicism, you’re here to sell Islam to us.

I’m going to reply to your answers one at a time. I think I finally figured out how to have a window within a window when quoting what doesn’t show when replying. Does that make sense? No, I don’t think I have the hang of it yet. 😊

Anyway, when I made that statement I never meant selling as in money changing hands. Are you not trying to make converts? Didn’t you in one post ask us to embrace Islam.

Vickie
I know what you meant but chose to respond instead to what you said. 🙂

So… I can make converts? Hehe. I asked you to, sure. I can’t remember my wording, though, but I remember it was a little bit tongue in cheek. Although, I am serious, that if anyone is interested in learning Islam or converting, I would be more than happy to help.

Of course I’m not here to learn about Catholicism–I do occasionally have questions, which I ask. But if I were trying to learn Catholicism, perhaps I’d spent time in the Traditional Catholicism or Apologetics sections, instead of the non-catholic religions. Wouldn’t you think?

But I know that it’s not in my power to make converts, and I don’t even try. Guidance is with Allah. And I’m actually not actively proselytizing here, and I don’t think the moderators would appreciate it if I were. This is not a place to do that. But I come here to talk about Islam. You bash and I defend is pretty much the relationship, right? Does it bother you to have people around who disagree with you? 🤷
 
Sister Amy;3994701 [/QUOTE said:
Posted by Booklover
Has it ever occurred to you that many of us consider Islam a threat not only to our faith but to all the freedoms guaranteed by our government?
Like freedom of religion? It threatens you that I want to practice my religion the same as you? Fascinating.

Hmm… now where is my sword? 😃 I have never advocated Islam be forced on anyone. Ever. In fact just the opposite. I said Protestant missionaries are nicer than Catholic ones, and that’s been my experience… does that bother you?

Can non-Muslims practice their religion freely in Muslim countries? Are they not treated as 2nd class citizens?

It does bother me if your religious practices infringe on the rights of others. There is no “give to Caesar what is Caesar’s” in Islam and I can see why Jesus made that statement.

You claim to follow Jesus as he intended but you actually do not. Islam’s teachings are a contradiction of what he said.
Vickie
 
Can non-Muslims practice their religion freely in Muslim countries? Are they not treated as 2nd class citizens?
Like what Muslim country? Do Muslim countries determine Islamic Law? The answer is that they don’t. What matters to your question is according Islamic Law can non-Muslims practice their religion freely under Muslim rule. The answer is yes–they are not to be prevented from their worship, their houses of worship are to be maintained, and they are to be allowed to fully implement their own law.
It does bother me if your religious practices infringe on the rights of others. There is no “give to Caesar what is Caesar’s” in Islam and I can see why Jesus made that statement.
My religious practices shouldn’t infringe on anyone else’s rights, first of all. Something else needs to be resolved if that is the case. Moreover, Muslim are supposed to respect the law of the land, even if they do not agree with it. Rebellion is discouraged. If it is bad for them, restricting their freedoms, then they should leave and go somewhere else.
You claim to follow Jesus as he intended but you actually do not. Islam’s teachings are a contradiction of what he said.
I don’t really think so. Jesus taught forgiveness, Muhammad taught forgiveness. But life is more than just spirituality and religion. Jesus never set guidelines for rulers, for example. He never acted as a judge. Islam’s teachings aren’t contradictory, they just deal with all spheres of life while Jesus’s are more limited in that regard.
 
Booklover;3996736:
I know what you meant but chose to respond instead to what you said. 🙂

So… I can make converts? Hehe. I asked you to, sure. I can’t remember my wording, though, but I remember it was a little bit tongue in cheek. Although, I am serious, that if anyone is interested in learning Islam or converting, I would be more than happy to help.

Of course I’m not here to learn about Catholicism–I do occasionally have questions, which I ask. But if I were trying to learn Catholicism, perhaps I’d spent time in the Traditional Catholicism or Apologetics sections, instead of the non-catholic religions. Wouldn’t you think?

But I know that it’s not in my power to make converts, and I don’t even try. Guidance is with Allah. And I’m actually not actively proselytizing here, and I don’t think the moderators would appreciate it if I were. This is not a place to do that. But I come here to talk about Islam. You bash and I defend is pretty much the relationship, right? Does it bother you to have people around who disagree with you? 🤷
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion. I don’t care if others don’t agree with me. Go to FFI and Jihadwatch for instance and you’ll find plenty who agree with me. 😃

Why is telling the truth about Islam as one sees it bashing?

Vickie
 
Constantine XI was the last emperor and his rule ended in 1453, defending the walls of New Rome. Btw, he was in communion with the pope of Rome.
I am not certain where you learned your history, but you should get a refund.

Here is a list of all the Emperors of the Roman Empire. The Western Roman Empire fell in 476. All emperors after that were in Constantinople, the Eastern Roman Empire. There was no emperor in Rome “watching the back” of Christians against Moslems.

List of Roman Emperors.
 
Like what Muslim country? Do Muslim countries determine Islamic Law? The answer is that they don’t. What matters to your question is according Islamic Law can non-Muslims practice their religion freely under Muslim rule. The answer is yes–they are not to be prevented from their worship, their houses of worship are to be maintained, and they are to be allowed to fully implement their own law.
This is either a baseless assumption or an outright lie. Most Islamic countries forbid the construction of churches, synagogues or houses of worship for other religions. Even tourists are not permitted to bring Bibles or other religious books with them, even for personal use. Most Islamic countries will not permit a clergyman to enter.

Your claim of freedom of religion in Islamic countries is so false that it cannot be reconciled with reality.
My religious practices shouldn’t infringe on anyone else’s rights, first of all. Something else needs to be resolved if that is the case. Moreover, Muslim are supposed to respect the law of the land, even if they do not agree with it. Rebellion is discouraged. If it is bad for them, restricting their freedoms, then they should leave and go somewhere else.
Wrong. An inherent part of Islamic doctrine is the elimination of all other religions. Yiou “religious practive” absolutely positively infringes on every non-Moslem’s rights. To claim otherwise is an example of takiya.
I don’t really think so. Jesus taught forgiveness, Muhammad taught forgiveness. But life is more than just spirituality and religion. Jesus never set guidelines for rulers, for example. He never acted as a judge. Islam’s teachings aren’t contradictory, they just deal with all spheres of life while Jesus’s are more limited in that regard.
Jesus most certainly did judge people, he is, after all, God. Mohamed, on the other hand, taught that Moslems should only forgive other Moslems. Non-Moslems are considered less than human and thus, unless they convert, do not deserve any consideration.
 
Are you sure about that?

saudiembassy.net/2005News/Statements/StateDetail.asp?cIndex=493
It sounds like you’re trying to say that the Muslims were stingy because the victims were Christian, but Muslims have an obligation to help all people who are suffering, and they do. Islamic Relief was in New Orleans after Katrina, for example. And while I don’t doubt that you can find some random “shari’ judge” who might say something crazy, I guarantee you that does not represent the feelings of most Muslims.
I said Muslim nations were slow in their response to giving aid to tsunami victims. Don’t blame the messenger. You can click on the news links below for a full report.
After slow start, Arab countries crank up tsunami relief

Tsunami: Little aid from Arab countries

[
For the moment, the militants say they are willing to tolerate the work of the Americans, whom they usually denounce as infidels and imperialistic occupiers of Muslim nations.

“As long as the American soldiers’ involvement is for humanitarian reasons, they are welcome,” said Imam Salman al-Farisi, the leader of the 80 volunteers of Majelis Mujahedeen Indonesia here. Majelis Mujahedeen is an umbrella organization of militant groups founded by Abu Bakar Bashir, who is on trial, charged with organizing the terror attack in Bali in October 2002. Mr. Bashir is the leader of the terror group Jemaah Islamiyah, which is blamed in the Bali bombings and the attack on the Marriott Hotel in Jakarta in 2003.

But the imam added a caveat. “If there are intelligence people among the American soldiers, I believe Allah will smash the United States.”**
Islamic Militants Volunteer to Aid Muslims in Indonesia**](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/i.../10muslims.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&oref=slogin)
 
Dear Bro Cathologist,
Many muslims who live in Aceh are very fanatic but many muslims who lives in Indonesia are good too. And please don’t forget that many Indonesian people are uneducated and they can be easily to be brainwashed.

Peace
I know that, wina. I have been to Aceh in the 90’s and i have personally seen (though not many) Muslims helping and even hiding their Christian neighbours from Muslim rioters.
 
This is either a baseless assumption or an outright lie. Most Islamic countries forbid the construction of churches, synagogues or houses of worship for other religions. Even tourists are not permitted to bring Bibles or other religious books with them, even for personal use. Most Islamic countries will not permit a clergyman to enter.

Your claim of freedom of religion in Islamic countries is so false that it cannot be reconciled with reality.

Wrong. An inherent part of Islamic doctrine is the elimination of all other religions. Yiou “religious practive” absolutely positively infringes on every non-Moslem’s rights. To claim otherwise is an example of takiya.

Jesus most certainly did judge people, he is, after all, God. Mohamed, on the other hand, taught that Moslems should only forgive other Moslems. Non-Moslems are considered less than human and thus, unless they convert, do not deserve any consideration.
👍 👍

Vickie
 
Sister Amy;3994701 [/QUOTE said:
Originally posted by Booklover

That Islam and the Islamic way of life are totally incompatible with our democratic way of life?
I disagree.

See here.

"Islam is incompatible with democracy and subversive of the way of life that blesses this nation. It is imperative that we fight Islamofascism with the same determination that we fought other enemies of freedom such as Nazism, Fascism, and Communism. It is, therefore, imperative that the Constitution be revisited in such a manner that it no longer grants a pass to any cult simply calling itself a religion.

**Bluntly speaking, no one can be a faithful Muslim and an American at the same time. **As more and more Muslims arrive in non-Islamic lands, as they reproduce with great fecundity, as they convert the disenchanted and minorities, and as petrodollar-flush Muslims and Muslim treasuries supply generous funds, Muslims gather more power to undermine the democratic rule." Iranian ex-Muslim Amil Imani

Here.
Now we come to the following:** The religious Muslim simply does not integrate into non-Muslim society. He doesn’t fit and he is not happy there. The Koran repeatedly enjoins the Muslim to make no friends with the non-Muslim and if he does he is disobeying the Koran. **Muslims are attracted to non-Muslim countries solely for economic reasons, i.e. job opportunities. They may like the economic benefits but generally they don’t like the country or its people. They are enemies in the land. Now looking at things from the non-Muslim point of view, the Muslim cannot be trusted. He is a threat in the land. His loyalty to the country cannot be trusted. In fact, no strictly religious and Koran-believing Muslim can possibly have a true and honest allegiance to a non-Muslim country—the Koran precludes it. The only trustworthy Muslims are the non-religious ones. For the religious Muslim, a non-Muslim government is wicked and evil and it is his duty to overthrow it and establish an Islamic state. Indeed the Islamic religion ought not be legal in any non-Muslim state. It is by its nature subversive and seditious—an enemy of the state. Every religious Muslim in a non-Muslim country is likely to be subversive in attitude and sentiment if not action, a potential terrorist, a very real threat to the citizens of the country.
Whatever the Muslims may say, the real reason for the Muslim hatred of non-Muslims is just simply religious bias. It is pure religious bigotry. The Muslim speaks of justice. But, in fact, his vision is distorted and warped by his own bias and hatred. He has his own version of justice.

Vickie
 
Sister Amy;3994701 [/QUOTE said:
Originally posted by Booklover

That it’s based on the inhuman, cruel and ignorant beliefs of barbaric, superstitious 7th century Arab bedouins? That this “merciful” way of life advocates horrors like stonings, cutting off of hands and floggings?
You don’t find this statement to be deliberately offensive?

See here.

An elaborate package of mostly illogical and bizarre prescriptions and proscriptions comes with the Islamic offer, covering every imaginable aspect of life. In the matter of being a good Muslim, nothing is left to chance that one needs to figure out for himself. “I think, therefore I am” said Rene Descartes in substantiating his claim to being a conscious being. “I don’t think, I faith; therefore I am an automaton,” says the Muslim in absolving himself of the need for independent thinking.
Even the minutest detail of the Muslim’s life is rigidly structured. He is to perform the obligatory prayer, for instance, five times a day at the exact appointed times. He must drop everything and go through the prescribed gesticulation and recitation of the verses while facing Mecca. Before saying his prayer, however, he must perform ablution. The Ablution, using water, must be carried out in a precise manner and sequence. In the absence of water, the faithful can substitute soil for water and go through the practice of “purifying” himself by running soil over his hands, arms, face and feet. After completion of ablution, as prescribed, he may proceed to say his prayer unless he commits flatulence. In that case, he must re-perform the ablution all over again.

And here.

This article exposes the lies these Islamists propagate. You will learn how deeply Islam is mired in absolute superstitions, irrationality, mind boggling, endless, meaningless rituals and customs. In all the core scriptures of Islam (such as the Qur’an and ahadith) we find unbelievable irrationality, superstition and rites that will even beat the rituals practiced by many religious cults in Africa, South America and other parts of the world.

and

Most Islamic Voodoos enunciated in this article reflect the traditions, customs, practices and beliefs of the illiterate, barbaric, and uncouth Bedouin Arabs leading a nomadic life in the harshness of desert. Muhammad was a product of his time and traditions. He simply codified those Arab Bedouin voodoos as Allah’s commandment and empowered this voodoo system to regulate a Muslim’s life. A Muslim cannot escape Islamic Voodoos; he will have to live with them and die with them. From birth to death, in every phase and stages of his life he will be hunted with Islamic voodoos. Every action he does, he must ensure that that conforms to Islam—more precisely, with Islamic voodoos. He must not question those mindless Islamic rituals, he must not doubt even a word of the Qur’an, and he must not deviate even a millimetre from the Islamic specifications. This means that the entire belief system in Islam is purely based on blind faith.
In verse 3:32 Allah says that Muslims must not question Islam, they must blindly follow Muhammad, because following Muhammad is following Allah (3:31, 4:80, 5:48, 33:71). In verse 24:51 Allah clarifies this further when He says: the blind believers are the true followers when they say, without any arguments, ‘we hear and we obey’. This means Allah likes blind believers. A hadis in Sunaan Abu Dawud (3.41.5112) says that Muhammad’s tongue is Allah’s tongue, and another hadis in Sahih Bukhari (4.52, 2004) writes that whoever obeys Muhammad obeys Allah, whoever disobeys Muhammad disobeys Allah. Please note that these are words emanating from the unalterable words of Allah and Muhammad. No power on earth could ever change them.

**Therefore, it is mandatory for all Muslims that they emulate Arab Bedouin customs, traditions, manners, dress, language, practices and their voodoos. A Muslim has no choice but to be an Arab Bedouin of Muhammad’s time. **This compulsory imposition of the desert Arabs’ beliefs and actions (read voodoos) is the most problematic part of Islam. If we separate these Islamic Voodoos (read Arab Bedouin Voodoos) Islam will die. Islam’s life blood is Arabism, precisely, Bedouinism. Once non Arab Muslims eschew this forced Arabism on them Islam will wither away from their society. That is why exposing the inane Islamic Voodoos is actually exposing Islam at its core—the ugly and the darker sides of Islam, which most Islamists (especially those living in the west) carefully attempt to hide." Ex-Muslim Abul Kasem

Vickie
 
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