Missions

[SingleMomMonica]

May I ask you a question?
I don’t know why I’m asking that question first because I’m going to ask anyway but once the Prostants are at the Non-Christian countries helping the poor with their physical needs and building houses and the like, would it be a big problem if they talked to the ones they are helping about God or should they just go there and not say a word about God? Not trying to start a argument about this but, may I be so bold as to ask, is it only the Catholics who should Catholicenize them? I’m just asking because that is how I took your last paragraph. If I’m wrong I apologize.

Your question makes me realize that I wasn’t clear in my post.

What I entended to say was that Protestants Should go to Non-Christian Countries to spread the Gospel of Jesus to those who’d never heard about him or who have an extremely small Christian presence like Saudi Arabia and China where there are many who have not yet heard the Christian message (and if while in those countries they come across Orthodox/Catholic Christians, they should Not attempt to convert them to Protestantism).

And once that has been done, if they still want to go into Christian Countries like Greece, Italy, Russia and Guatemala then they should not be doing so to teach the Christians about Christ, since they already know about Jesus from the Church (Orthodox or Catholic) that has been around since the Apostles themselves, but that, in my opinion, if they still wanted to go into those already Christian Countries, then they can but only in order to address the physical needs of the Christians since their spiritual needs either are already or could be met by the existing Christian Church already there.

Like for example, providing relief in the form of food and clothing to those in suffering under Israeli rule in Palestine or helping build homes in Central America or giving vaccines to the children in Ethiopia.

That’s what I meant to say.

To answer you though, Protestant Missionaries should when in speaking with an Orthodox Christian or Catholic Christian should encourage them, rejoicing with them that they share the same Saviour, to seek Christ through the Church He established that they are a member of.

(Catholics of today have their roots in Orthodoxy from before the Schism going back to the Apostles - this should be respected by those Protestant Christians since they can only trace their roots back to the 20th century - 16th century depending on which denomination they are a member of.)

 

[rev_kevin]

Your question makes me realize that I wasn’t clear in my post.

What I entended to say was that Protestants Should go to Non-Christian Countries to spread the Gospel of Jesus to those who’d never heard about him or who have an extremely small Christian presence like Saudi Arabia and China where there are many who have not yet heard the Christian message (and if while in those countries they come across Orthodox/Catholic Christians, they should Not attempt to convert them to Protestantism).

And once that has been done, if they still want to go into Christian Countries like Greece, Italy, Russia and Guatemala then they should not be doing so to teach the Christians about Christ, since they already know about Jesus from the Church (Orthodox or Catholic) that has been around since the Apostles themselves, but that, in my opinion, if they still wanted to go into those already Christian Countries, then they can but only in order to address the physical needs of the Christians since their spiritual needs either are already or could be met by the existing Christian Church already there.

Like for example, providing relief in the form of food and clothing to those in suffering under Israeli rule in Palestine or helping build homes in Central America or giving vaccines to the children in Ethiopia.

That’s what I meant to say.

To answer you though, Protestant Missionaries should when in speaking with an Orthodox Christian or Catholic Christian should encourage them, rejoicing with them that they share the same Saviour, to seek Christ through the Church He established that they are a member of.

(Catholics of today have their roots in Orthodoxy from before the Schism going back to the Apostles - this should be respected by those Protestant Christians since they can only trace their roots back to the 20th century - 16th century depending on which denomination they are a member of.)

Oh I agree with you on all accounts, thanks for clearing it for me and the rest here. And I beleive one should not try to take the beliefs away from that the person they are helping, but if they, the one being helped, starts the conversation and wants to know about the helpers religion the should tell them but not in a way to make it seem like they are trying to convert them. Now this should go for both sides to be fair.

 

[Nine_Two]

Oh I agree with you on all accounts, thanks for clearing it for me and the rest here. And I beleive one should not try to take the beliefs away from that the person they are helping, but if they, the one being helped, starts the conversation and wants to know about the helpers religion the should tell them but not in a way to make it seem like they are trying to convert them. Now this should go for both sides to be fair.

That’s exactly how it should be. Discussions of religion are great, it’s the only way two people can learn from each other, but going to a foreign country with the express purposes of converting the already Christian heathen is just wrong, and it does create situations that make life harder on others.

While Russia is officially a secular state, I have heard that Protestants are given a hard time, while Catholics are generally left alone (and Orthodox get some favoratism, being closely identified with the national culture). This is wrong, but it’s a situation created by the attitude many (not all, and probably not even most) protestants take.

 

[rev_kevin]

That’s exactly how it should be. Discussions of religion are great, it’s the only way two people can learn from each other, but going to a foreign country with the express purposes of converting the already Christian heathen is just wrong, and it does create situations that make life harder on others.

While Russia is officially a secular state, I have heard that Protestants are given a hard time, while Catholics are generally left alone (and Orthodox get some favoratism, being closely identified with the national culture). This is wrong, but it’s a situation created by the attitude many (not all, and probably not even most) protestants take.

I have to agree with you. I really don’t know about the situation in Russia. Now I can see them giving Protestants a hard time if they are not complying with their laws or rules. Athought is wrong for them {Russia} to do such a thing, they {Protestants} must keep in their minds that its their country and they {Protestants} are guests there and should respect their country.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

I have to agree with you. I really don’t know about the situation in Russia. Now I can see them giving Protestants a hard time if they are not complying with their laws or rules. Athought is wrong for them {Russia} to do such a thing, they {Protestants} must keep in their minds that its their country and they {Protestants} are guests there and should respect their country.

I work with 4 Mormons (2 former missionaries 1 in the U.S. and one sent abroad) and they tell me that the LDS completely pulled out of Russia about 2 yrs ago is when I heard them say that. The LDS are no longer sending missionaries there.

 

[Nine_Two]

I work with 4 Mormons (2 former missionaries 1 in the U.S. and one sent abroad) and they tell me that the LDS completely pulled out of Russia about 2 yrs ago is when I heard them say that. The LDS are no longer sending missionaries there.

Really? That’s quite odd. I would never think they’d ever pull out of a region - hearing some stories about them in other countries in the Orthodox world.

I seem to recall reading the Patriarch of Bulgaria asked the government to expell all LDS a year or two back.

 

[AmericanJosiah]

I received a letter from my niece who is on a mission for her church. She is Baptist, not sure of the particular group. They went to Greece to spread the good news of the Gospel. In her letter back to the family she stated that these people were in such need of having the Word spread to them. That the Catholic Church (Greek Orthodox) did not minister to the people the way the people wanted them to. The Church was too strict on morals and protocols of the Church. The people that she says that felt alienated from the Church were mainly young students and prostitutes. She felt that this alienation was because the Church was too rigid and judgmental because it held these folks to a standard that was too hard.

I am having trouble with a little bit of this, maybe someone can help.

Why do some Protestant religions feel the need to spread the Good News of the Gospel to folks in predominately Christian countries (Catholic of varying rites being the dominate religion) who already have the Word?

While I focus my evangelism solely on non-Christians, I disagree with you that everyone that lives in Europe, North and South America are Christians. I’ve been to some European nations, and I’ve been to church there at least every Sunday for worship while there - and I can assure you, we live in a post-Christian era. And even many who claim some historic connection to Christianity have no clue what Christianity even is - and certainly do not affirm it as true. Ironcially, many of the lands regarded as “mission fields” in the 18th or 19th century are more “Christian” than the nations that sent those missionaries long ago.

Is it because it is a Catholic community and that the Word of the Catholic Gospel is different or somehow flawed because of the Catholic flavor?

I never heard of a Catholic in Greece. IF they are anything, they tend to be Greek Orthodox.

Why don’t Protestant mission concentrate on non-Christian countries where the Gospel really needs to be spread?

Are there any Christian nations, where all the people are Christians? The only POSSIBILITY I can think of would be Vatican City, lol.

To the opening poster: How do you feel about the “missionaries” (apologists) HERE - at this website, directed at English speakers, trying to convert them from Protestantism to Catholicism? If you decry the opposite in Greece, do you support such in the USA if done by Catholics toward non-Catholic Christians? Isn’t “sheep stealing” sheep stealing whether it’s a Baptist of a Greek Orthodox in Greece or a Catholic of a Baptist in the USA?

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[Nine_Two]

To the opening poster: How do you feel about the “missionaries” (apologists) HERE - at this website, directed at English speakers, trying to convert them from Protestantism to Catholicism? If you decry the opposite in Greece, do you support such in the USA if done by Catholics toward non-Catholic Christians? Isn’t “sheep stealing” sheep stealing whether it’s a Baptist of a Greek Orthodox in Greece or a Catholic of a Baptist in the USA?
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The difference is that this website is passive in its evangelism. An individual will only get here if they meant to. If Protestants want to take the same direction in a Catholic or Orthodox country (infact it is how the Catholic and Orthodox Churches themselves evangelize throughout the world in countries where they are not dominant) then no one would be complaining.

While no country is 100% of one religion, it is best to leave the open evangelism to the native faiths of the region.

Go there, set up a church, do good works and invite people to see your religion, but don’t treat the native Church as unchristian and approach people with the idea of converting them.

In non-Christian countries the approach should be very similar. Demonstrate the faith of Christ, don’t just throw it at them.

 

[rev_kevin]

I work with 4 Mormons (2 former missionaries 1 in the U.S. and one sent abroad) and they tell me that the LDS completely pulled out of Russia about 2 yrs ago is when I heard them say that. The LDS are no longer sending missionaries there.

Like I said, I don’t know anything about what is going on in Russia as fare as the missions go, but its obvious that something happened for them to pull out or being asked to leave. Thanks for the info.

 

[AmericanJosiah]

While no country is 100% of one religion, it is best to leave the open evangelism to the native faiths of the region.

Go there, set up a church, do good works and invite people to see your religion, but don’t treat the native Church as unchristian and approach people with the idea of converting them.

In non-Christian countries the approach should be very similar. Demonstrate the faith of Christ, don’t just throw it at them.

1. I actually don’t support “sheep stealing” by one denomination of another - regardless where its done or who does it. Including at any website. Evangelism should be directed at non-believers, not non-Catholics or whatever.
2. I think our fundamental disagreement is that I find no basis to assume that everyone who lives in a country (any country) is, ergo, a Christian and without any need of evangelism. Truth is, most of the nations some would think of a “mission fields” (as they probably were 200 years ago) are more “Christianized” than the European nations that sent those missionaries long ago. Have you been to France? Sweden? Russia? The only POSSIBLE exception I’d make among the worlds 150 or so countries would be Vatican City, lol.
3. I think your advise good as far as it goes, but it needs to be said to The Catholic Church at least as much. I’ve had Catholics trying to convert me since I was 11 years old - and I was Baptized and raised a Christian since I was born, by C-section, when I weighed less than 3 pounds. If you want to decry sheep stealing - I won’t object, just do it across the board, in ALL situations, no matter whether it be done by Catholic or non-Catholic.

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[Nine_Two]

1. I actually don’t support “sheep stealing” by one denomination of another - regardless where its done or who does it. Including at any website. Evangelism should be directed at non-believers, not non-Catholics or whatever.
2. I think our fundamental disagreement is that I find no basis to assume that everyone who lives in a country (any country) is, ergo, a Christian and without any need of evangelism. Truth is, most of the nations some would think of a “mission fields” (as they probably were 200 years ago) are more “Christianized” than the European nations that sent those missionaries long ago. Have you been to France? Sweden? Russia? The only POSSIBLE exception I’d make among the worlds 150 or so countries would be Vatican City, lol.
3. I think your advise good as far as it goes, but it needs to be said to The Catholic Church at least as much. I’ve had Catholics trying to convert me since I was 11 years old - and I was Baptized and raised a Christian since I was born, by C-section, when I weighed less than 3 pounds. If you want to decry sheep stealing - I won’t object, just do it across the board, in ALL situations, no matter whether it be done by Catholic or non-Catholic.

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Like I said, my issue is not with the missionaries being there, but how they go about it. Passive Evangelism efforts, like this site, where everything is directed by the “evangelized” (that is they choose how much they get) is perfectly alright. It’s actively trying to convert other Christians which I have an issue with, something which this site is not guilty of in the least.

 

[wmscott]

While I focus my evangelism solely on non-Christians, I disagree with you that everyone that lives in Europe, North and South America are Christians. I’ve been to some European nations, and I’ve been to church there at least every Sunday for worship while there - and I can assure you, we live in a post-Christian era. And even many who claim some historic connection to Christianity have no clue what Christianity even is - and certainly do not affirm it as true. Ironcially, many of the lands regarded as “mission fields” in the 18th or 19th century are more “Christian” than the nations that sent those missionaries long ago.

What I said was is “Why do some Protestant religions feel the need to spread the Good News of the Gospel to folks in predominately Christian countries (Catholic of varying rites being the dominate religion) who already have the Word?” I am fully aware that not all who live in Europe, North and South America are Christians. There are large Muslim populations through out. Maybe a better choice of words could be " predominately Christian Communities"? in place of predominately Christian countries.

I never heard of a Catholic in Greece. IF they are anything, they tend to be Greek Orthodox.

Are Greek Orthodox Christians (Catholic Eastern Church) or something else?
What about the Byzantine Rite

Are there any Christian nations, where all the people are Christians? The only POSSIBILITY I can think of would be Vatican City, lol.

Good one, I like it

To the opening poster: How do you feel about the “missionaries” (apologists) HERE - at this website, directed at English speakers, trying to convert them from Protestantism to Catholicism? If you decry the opposite in Greece, do you support such in the USA if done by Catholics toward non-Catholic Christians? Isn’t “sheep stealing” sheep stealing whether it’s a Baptist of a Greek Orthodox in Greece or a Catholic of a Baptist in the USA?

I guess what I am questioning is why not concentrate on non-Christian “Communities”? What I am perceiving from the letter from my niece is the mission (her church) is seeing Christians that are unhappy with their Church because of the setting of a moral compass, and now want a happy, happy, joy, joy make me feel good about what ever I want to do and don’t hold me responsible to a higher standard.

Now if a mission, regardless of denomination, goes into a non-Christian community and wins over even one soul for Christ, then Praise the Lord.

As far a s sheep stealing is concerned, I do not practice it either. If someone asks me about the Catholic Church, I will tell them all I know to be true. If they decide to convert, it was not because of me, it was the Holy Spirit that moved them to it.

.

 

[Harpazo]

For all those wondering about the Russians cracking down on Protestants here’s a video from the New York Times: The story is a little old; however, it is still fairly recent.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[firstmode]

I would like to see this letter and hear it word for word rather than was was interpreted by the OP.

Obviously, the OP is Catholic and will read it with a Bias and that Bias will come out in their summary.

I do not understand this comlaining that most protestants are trying to live an easy religion.

Catholocism has NOTHING on Holiness Pentecostal movements. NOTHING AT ALL.

To them, you guys let girls wear pants, skirts above the ankles, sleeves higher than the elbow, etc.

I could go on and on, but I consider Holiness Pentecostals to be taking things in a direction that is incorrect.

My point though is that most Baptist people I know, especially hardcore baptists will not even do any work on Sundays. My grandfather would not let me mow his lawn on Sunday because it was work, even though it was the only time I could mow his lawn. I am talking about hard core ethical Christians.

Most Pentecostals I know are VERY strict when it comes to movies they are allowed to watch, any kind of swear words, drunkness or drinking at all, etc.

You guys are comparing FUNDAMENTALIST Baptist/pentecostals/protestants to Episcopals and ELCA Lutherans?

Most Catholics I know do are horribly secular, very very cultural, and the majority I know believe that every path leads to God and that the religion we grow up in is our path to God and evangelism is rediculous.

I do not label the Catholic faith based on the majority of Cathlics I know and have ever known my whole life because I talk to Catholics and Orthodox like you guys, who explain how you guys truly believe and live the Catholic Christian faith.

Trust me, if it was not for you guys, I would think that everyone who says they are Catholic do not know Jesus at all. Just like us Protestants, you guys have a WHOLE LOT of brothers and sisters that need correction because they are living and acting apart from God.

I have met 2 Catholics that actually act and live Catholicism like you guys do on this site in real life. I was raised Catholic and live in a very Catholic City in Chicago and I have been nothing but dissapointed with Catholics…

 

[firstmode]

Hi Andrew,

I’d not heard that the Russian government banned Protestant proselytism - did they also ban Catholic proselytism or just Protestant?

I agree that missionaries of Christian Faiths should go to Non-Christian Countries unless the focus of their mission is not prostelzation, but helping the poor with their physical needs - building houses and the like.

There are a lot of non-Chrsitian people in Christian countries. I think sometimes missionaries are sent from different Christian faith backgrounds because they feel that their approach to missions work may reach an area what has been unaffected by the style of mission work done by other Christian traditions.

I HOPE that all missions work is to convert NON Christians, not Christians from other faith tradidions unless they happen to hear and believe that another faith tradition is more suitable for them to know the Trinitarian God.