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TrinityKnot
Guest
No, you’re okay. But I’ve only been active for a few hours and feel pretty unwelcome, sadly.
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Schluns
Guest
Welcome!
Simple words of advise: Be careful of people with agendas, especially with the ones who are determined to separate you from your faith. When you are doing research in apologetics and are looking at dissenting views, pray first for enlightenment and strength then read. Not the other way around. Also, speak with your priest regularly.
don’t be discouraged by this thread. Very often Newbies can be trolls and posts like this are occasionally indicators, so people tend to be harsh at first. Also, some people don’t read previous posts other than the opening post (OP) and you will get a fine smattering of offensive before you get a real answer. Sorry, but that is very common.
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liquidpele
Guest
Awww… why the name calling? Anyway, I think you are focusing on a silly aspect of the atheistic argument. Whether it says “virgin” or “young woman” or “wonder woman” doesn’t really matter. Most atheists choose to believe that the extraordinary (magical) parts of religion are invalidated by lack of evidence, not that there is evidence invalidating them. On the flip, religious folk choose to believe the extraordinary parts on faith and tradition. Either way, it’s just what a person decides to believe, the only only really important thing is where the person takes those beliefs and what they do with them in my humble opinion.I’m really new to the atheist world, so, sorry.
I know atheists are ignorant, it’s just that I wanted another tool under my belt to use as well if this came up between me and an atheist.
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Canto
Guest
The Jews translated it as virgin in the Septuagint
St Matthew I read somewhere wrote his gospel for Jews and used the Hebrew - he translated Virgin
Maybe there is a Hebrew manuscript tradition that says virgin
Even if it is young woman the fact is Christ was still born of the Virgin and is still the Messiah. Is 7:14 makes no difference to that.
What I do if ever I read something contradictory to the faith is…
St Matthew I read somewhere wrote his gospel for Jews and used the Hebrew - he translated Virgin
Maybe there is a Hebrew manuscript tradition that says virgin
Even if it is young woman the fact is Christ was still born of the Virgin and is still the Messiah. Is 7:14 makes no difference to that.
What I do if ever I read something contradictory to the faith is…
- pass it off as a load of rubbish or something taken out of context
- go to a Catholic Apologetics site on the internet that usually will give me an answer
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Peter_Dawson
Guest
Everybody gets into a big sweat about the translation of the Hebrew word almah in Isaiah 7:14.
At the plaintext level, the word *almah * refers to Hezekiah’s mother, who almost certainly was a virgin when she was chosen to be the consort of a Hebrew king. So, “virgin” is a perfectly proper translation.
However, the “virgin’s” virginity is almost certainly not some kind of reference to Mary’s perpetual virginity, insofar as Hezekiah was conceived in an extremely non-miraculous, non-virginal fashion.
When Matthew quotes the Isaiah verse in Matthew 1, he would have been acutely aware that Hezekiah’s mother conceived Hezekiah by being “deflowered,” and so he almost certainly means not that Hezekiah’s mother’s “virgin” title in Isaiah is a reference to Mary’s virginity, but rather that the reference to Hezekiah as “Immanuel,” which means, “God is with us,” is a reference to the reality of Jesus’ divinity.
At the plaintext level, the word *almah * refers to Hezekiah’s mother, who almost certainly was a virgin when she was chosen to be the consort of a Hebrew king. So, “virgin” is a perfectly proper translation.
However, the “virgin’s” virginity is almost certainly not some kind of reference to Mary’s perpetual virginity, insofar as Hezekiah was conceived in an extremely non-miraculous, non-virginal fashion.
When Matthew quotes the Isaiah verse in Matthew 1, he would have been acutely aware that Hezekiah’s mother conceived Hezekiah by being “deflowered,” and so he almost certainly means not that Hezekiah’s mother’s “virgin” title in Isaiah is a reference to Mary’s virginity, but rather that the reference to Hezekiah as “Immanuel,” which means, “God is with us,” is a reference to the reality of Jesus’ divinity.
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Mintaka
Guest
It’s also likely that “bethulah”, virgin, sounded clinical to Hebrew ears and not very polite.
Think about how impolite it sounds today, to describe a girl you are talking about as a virgin. Even if she is and should be, it’s creepy. It sounds like you have designs on her.
It’s not something that normally comes up in polite conversation. It’s a topic that makes people blush.
In short, it’s not something a polite prophet would say about a queen-to-be.
However, when translating the Bible into Greek, you would have to cast aside these niceties so that everyone would understand the point of the matter. I believe that parthenos is quite a polite term, and comes up a lot in pagan Greek religion. (For example, Athena’s Parthenon.) So nobody is going to blush.
Think about how impolite it sounds today, to describe a girl you are talking about as a virgin. Even if she is and should be, it’s creepy. It sounds like you have designs on her.
It’s not something that normally comes up in polite conversation. It’s a topic that makes people blush.
In short, it’s not something a polite prophet would say about a queen-to-be.
However, when translating the Bible into Greek, you would have to cast aside these niceties so that everyone would understand the point of the matter. I believe that parthenos is quite a polite term, and comes up a lot in pagan Greek religion. (For example, Athena’s Parthenon.) So nobody is going to blush.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
One would note from John 11:49-52
That a prophet often did not know what he was talking about.
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PJM
Guest
Friend,
My first suggestion, and I make it as forceably as I am able, is not “to seek trouble” simply because YOU WILL FIND IT!
Why is a Catholic looking to an acknowkedged ATHEIST for understanding our Catholic Faith?
I first looked in YLT (Youngs Literal translation) and I find this Translation from the Orginal GREEK:
" 27to a virgin, betrothed to a man, whose name [is] Joseph, of the house of David, and the name of the virgin [is] Mary. "
I then searched the Protestant KJV and found this:
“26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David;** and the virgin’s name was Mary**. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.”
And this is from the Catholic NIV Bible:
"26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 **to a virgin betrothed to **a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, * the Lord is with you!” *
Oh ye of little faith!
May God Bless you!
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