Mistreatment of children vs. mistreatment of animals

[Chovy]

Every day, I read with horror the news of another child or children who have been abused in disgusting and awful ways. I’m not seeking these stories out, they seem to be everywhere I go!

Here are a few of the awful things I’ve read recently:

A 15 year old boy beating the 18 year old girl carrying her child with the intention of killing his unborn child. (The child’s skull was fractured in-utero and died).

2 parents who were drunk and high and rolled over onto their child in the bed and smothered him to death. (The news was that their other child was being returned to them, and that the mother had said "I guess if I wasn’t drunk, “baby” would still be alive.) Poor other baby now has to live with them.

A child who was murdered and raped by his mom’s boyfriend after numerous incidents of him reportedly cowering in fear when the mom and boyfriend came to pick him up, as well as having multiple injuries in boyfriend’s care (including a badly injured penis).

These stories are repeated with variations, across the country every day. Parents killing their children. Mothers drowning their children. Babysitters killing children. Torture, humiliation, neglect, sexual abuse, etc…

Yesterday I read two things that really set me off. The headlines were:

Protest planned after judge sends abused dog back to owner
The gist of the story was that a german shepherd had been abused and neglected by its owner, and required emergency surgery. After proving the dog was his and pleading no contest to the charges levied against him, the owner got his dog back. People are protesting.

and
Trial Set for California Man in Fatal Arrow Attack on Neighbor’s Cat. This story was about a man who was jailed on $75,000 bond after shooting his neighbor’s cat that was urinating in his yard with a bow and arrow.

People are justifiably unhappy with both of these incidents, but where is the outrage for these other innocent among us, our children? Why do people look the other way at people who murder their children but want “justice” for people who hurt their pets? What can be done?

 

[sanctareparata]

I too find it tragic and disgusting that people can have more love for an animal than for a human life.

DH and I were talking about just this very thing last night. He had a friend who was dating a girl and as the relationship progressed, he said some disturbing things began to surface. He once asked her: “If you were driving down the road and a dog jumped out in front of you and the only way you could avoid the dog was to swerve into a child on the side of the road, what would you do?” She responded: “Oh, I’d definitely hit the kid.” That ended that relationship. And she was totally convinced that was the best answer, too.

 

[mamacita]

I don’t understand it, perhaps I never will. It is disgusting that people value animals more than human beings. They will be the ones answering to the Man upstairs someday about their actions…

 

[nobody]

I like to bring this up in threads of this type:

Henry Bergh, the founder of the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, also founded, with 2 other men, the first organization in the US for the prevention of cruelty to children, the New York Society for the prevention of Cruelty to Children. Read the full story of how this came about through the sad case of Mary Ellen here: americanheritage.com/arti…990_5_84.shtml

The newspapers print what they think will sell newpapers.

Also, many child abuse stories are not made public in order to protect the privacy of the child.

 

[Chovy]

I think what I’d like to see is people reacting like the MADD group used to react during incidents of drunk driving. DH had some incidents of Driving While Intoxicated in the 80’s (he hasn’t had a drink in 20+ years and never caused anyone but himself physical harm), and said that representatives of MADD were in the court room and made sure that their opinion was represented.

In what I have seen of the courtroom dealings with child-abusers, they are made to sound like saints! Maybe this Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children could be doing something about that in a peaceful manner.

 

[nobody]

The Society for the prevention of cruelty to children was the name of the organization as it existed many years ago.

For children who are taken into state custody, there is an organization called CASA - for Court Appointed Special Advocates. They are volunteers there to stand up for the interest of the child. Look them up on the web. Perhaps you could volunteer! Again, they take an oath of confidentiality, to protect the privacy of the child they are representing.

 

[nobody]

I finally got around to checking the link I posted in the earlier thread, and it didn’t work. This one should:
americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1990/5/1990_5_84.shtml

The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children does still exist:
www.nyspcc.org
And that website has a shorter version of the article at americanheritage telling how it was started by the same man as the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals: nyspcc.org/beta_history/index_history.htm
%between%
Also, here’s a link to find out more about CASA, and how you can volunteer:
www.nationalcasa.org

 

[kedera]

Nobody, are you a social worker? You sound like one. I am, but not currently working. I actually trained CASA’s when I was an intern. I too found the fact that children were left without protection when it was a crime to neglect your cattle. The real truth about child abuse and neglect is that it is far more prevalent than most people realize, and many times is never reveled. Some people just keep it in the home and are careful not to expose the secrets, and the kids grow up thinking that its normal familial behavior and practice. I actually dealt with a 12 yr old girl who spoke about the rape she survived at the hands of her mothers boy friend, her uncle and friends of the uncle, as if she were emotionally and spiritually dead, it was terrible. No emotion, just matter-of-fact, that’s just how it is attitude. In one interview I observed at the advocacy center, there was little 4yr old girl that had panic attacks when she tried to talk about the abuse done to her, 4 YEARS OLD! What is truly disturbing is that the mothers many times know that their children are being abuse and they do nothing, not out of fear, they just don’t care, most of the time because their problems are all they can think about. I had a mother tell me in front of her daughter, “she just needs to get over it and move on, I don’t know why she won’t just get over it! I did when it happend to me, you don’t see me cuttin’ on myself!” I live in a rural area, and in only a couple of years in the field, I have seen, so many cases that are absolutley disgusting. So disgusting, I couldn’t put them the post, if you can imagin in the darkest recesses of your imagination, it’s probably been done. It’s horrible.

 

[nobody]

Hi kedera, I sent you a PM.

 

[Jeanette_L]

It seems to me that people who will mistreat one will mistreat the other. Cruelty is in the nature of the offender, I wouldn’t trust a person who displays a cruel inclination with either animal or child, and I don’t see anything wrong in feeling that way about both.

But we are in a dilemma in our society. We have allowed the ultimate cruelty against children, the merciless killing of the unborn for the convenience of pleasure seeking and self serving members of society. This indifference inevitably permeates the way we think about the vulnerable and so-called non contributing human beings in general; the children and disabled and elderly (non contributing in a production driven and hedonistic society). It then becomes harder and harder for our legislative and judicial systems to think clearly and logically without bringing condemnation upon themselves for their first offence, the extermination of the unborn.

They ease their consciences by focusing on the other cruelties committed by humans, those towards the animals, which should be addressed, but we’ve lost our sense of balance.

 

[Chovy]

It seems to me that people who will mistreat one will mistreat the other. Cruelty is in the nature of the offender, I wouldn’t trust a person who displays a cruel inclination with either animal or child, and I don’t see anything wrong in feeling that way about both.

But we are in a dilemma in our society. We have allowed the ultimate cruelty against children, the merciless killing of the unborn for the convenience of pleasure seeking and self serving members of society. This indifference inevitably permeates the way we think about the vulnerable and so-called non contributing human beings in general; the children and disabled and elderly (non contributing in a production driven and hedonistic society). It then becomes harder and harder for our legislative and judicial systems to think clearly and logically without bringing condemnation upon themselves for their first offence, the extermination of the unborn.

They ease their consciences by focusing on the other cruelties committed by humans, those towards the animals, which should be addressed, but we’ve lost our sense of balance.

This is so very true.

As for being a CASA, I’ve thought about it. We were foster parents and our foster baby had no CASA. She did have a guardian ad-leitem who sadly did absolutely nothing on her behalf.

 

[RandA]

It seems to me that people who will mistreat one will mistreat the other. Cruelty is in the nature of the offender, I wouldn’t trust a person who displays a cruel inclination with either animal or child, and I don’t see anything wrong in feeling that way about both.

But we are in a dilemma in our society. We have allowed the ultimate cruelty against children, the merciless killing of the unborn for the convenience of pleasure seeking and self serving members of society. This indifference inevitably permeates the way we think about the vulnerable and so-called non contributing human beings in general; the children and disabled and elderly (non contributing in a production driven and hedonistic society). It then becomes harder and harder for our legislative and judicial systems to think clearly and logically without bringing condemnation upon themselves for their first offence, the extermination of the unborn.

They ease their consciences by focusing on the other cruelties committed by humans, those towards the animals, which should be addressed, but we’ve lost our sense of balance.

Excellent post!

 

[Le_Cracquere]

It seems to me that people who will mistreat one will mistreat the other. Cruelty is in the nature of the offender, I wouldn’t trust a person who displays a cruel inclination with either animal or child, and I don’t see anything wrong in feeling that way about both.

Indeed, and amen. But even if animal cruelty had no necessary correlation to violence and cruelty towards humans, it’s still an evil–that’s not a connection on which the case against abusing animals stands or falls. Being wantonly cruel or vicious towards animals is an abrogation of our charged responsibilities to be wise and righteous stewards of our Lord’s creation, of which animals form an inseparable part.

But we are in a dilemma in our society. We have allowed the ultimate cruelty against children, the merciless killing of the unborn for the convenience of pleasure seeking and self serving members of society. This indifference inevitably permeates the way we think about the vulnerable and so-called non contributing human beings in general; the children and disabled and elderly (non contributing in a production driven and hedonistic society). It then becomes harder and harder for our legislative and judicial systems to think clearly and logically without bringing condemnation upon themselves for their first offence, the extermination of the unborn.

They ease their consciences by focusing on the other cruelties committed by humans, those towards the animals, which should be addressed, but we’ve lost our sense of balance.

In many cases, maybe. But I don’t care for the implication of several posts on this list–that decency or kindness towards animals, and horror at their maltreatment, is time and energy diverted from caring about children. Showing love and kindness is not a zero-sum game, where spending some over here leaves you with less over there.

I can also assure those posters, as someone who’s logged a lot of time in animal rescue, that in many locales the legal remedies for animal abuse are all but nonexistent (de facto if not de jure). Feel better?

 

[Jeanette_L]

I can also assure those posters, as someone who’s logged a lot of time in animal rescue, that in many locales the legal remedies for animal abuse are all but nonexistent (de facto if not de jure). Feel better?

I don’t think anyone here would feel better about animals in trouble being ignored. I think there’s a frustration about a society that hesitates to do what is necessary when the protection of children is involved, while the perception is that there’s no hesitation whatsoever concerning the protection of animals.

The reality may not be so, in as far as we have not always protected the animals as we should, but the perception is just that.

And most of this inequality comes from activists who would stand on a protest line yelling obscenities and spitting at pro-life marchers, while marching themselves to save whatever animal is in danger this month, never seeing or willing to acknowledge the irony in that.

Now, don’t get mad at me! I am a huge animal lover, I won’t even watch a movie where an animal even looks like it might be in danger anywhere in the plot line! I give regularly to the Humane Society and animal rescue organizations. I am just arguing that the imbalance between the right to life for animals and the right to life for humans is philosophical, and it effects the way our society will make decisions in the future that may affect all of us as we become expendable.

I don’t think this makes anyone feel better.

 

[CatholicSam]

Haven’t read through all the replies (or all of the original post for that matter, don’t want to hear stories like that ). But can we really expect much more than this from a society that views human beings as parasites on the earth-god? Society is becoming increasingly environmentalist. People are calling environmentalism a religion. They view each and every human being as somehow contributing to the downfall of the all-wonderful planet earth, and every less human being here is less “harm” to their god, the earth. So while these stories of children being murdered are tragic, they can’t help but think that at least some good is coming from this–less overpopulation We really need a puking smiley.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

I don’t think anyone here would feel better about animals in trouble being ignored. I think there’s a frustration about a society that hesitates to do what is necessary when the protection of children is involved, while the perception is that there’s no hesitation whatsoever concerning the protection of animals.

The reality may not be so, in as far as we have not always protected the animals as we should, but the perception is just that.

And most of this inequality comes from activists who would stand on a protest line yelling obscenities and spitting at pro-life marchers, while marching themselves to save whatever animal is in danger this month, never seeing or willing to acknowledge the irony in that.

Now, don’t get mad at me! I am a huge animal lover, I won’t even watch a movie where an animal even looks like it might be in danger anywhere in the plot line! I give regularly to the Humane Society and animal rescue organizations. I am just arguing that the imbalance between the right to life for animals and the right to life for humans is philosophical, and it effects the way our society will make decisions in the future that may affect all of us as we become expendable.

I understand your argument, and I agree with its gist. This would be a far better society if children were allowed to live to birth, protected & well cared for thereafter, and reared & disciplined to be decent people; I couldn’t dispute that. However, I volunteer in an area where animal cruelty and neglect are daily–hourly–occurrences, and the legal advances that have been made towards protecting animals have been extraordinarily limited, gradual, hard-won, and fragile. Anecdotal exceptions aside, the average animal isn’t better-protected than the average child–far, far from it–and I believe that the case for improving children’s safety and well-being can be made without using animal welfare as a counterpoint or foil.

I don’t think this makes anyone feel better.

You’re probably right, but that sort of p(name removed by moderator)oints what’s been off about some of these earlier posts–some animal’s loss is not some child’s gain, and neither is some animal’s gain some child’s loss.

 

[nobody]

…Showing love and kindness is not a zero-sum game, where spending some over here leaves you with less over there.

I can also assure those posters, as someone who’s logged a lot of time in animal rescue, that in many locales the legal remedies for animal abuse are all but nonexistent …

Hello Le C,
Just wanted to let you know I agree with you.

Everyone, think of these scenarios:
1a: A baby is found on the street, or in a dumpster, or in the trunk of a car. The baby is taken to the hospital, multiple agencies and professionals are called in to find and prosecute those responsible, a foster home is found, etc.
1b: A puppy is found in a dumpster, or in the trunk of a car. It is taken to the pound, and if not claimed in a few days, it is killed. No one but an employee or volunteer or two at the pound even know of the situation.

There is no comparison.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Hello Le C,
Just wanted to let you know I agree with you.

Everyone, think of these scenarios:
1a: A baby is found on the street, or in a dumpster, or in the trunk of a car. The baby is taken to the hospital, multiple agencies and professionals are called in to find and prosecute those responsible, a foster home is found, etc.
1b: A puppy is found in a dumpster, or in the trunk of a car. It is taken to the pound, and if not claimed in a few days, it is killed. No one but an employee or volunteer or two at the pound even know of the situation.

There is no comparison.

No offense but there is a comparison one is human life the other is an animal life. I understand what you are getting at, but I do not think that they are all killed in a matter of a few days, the animals that is. Mind you, I have nothing against animals, am allergic to cats, but that is besides the point. I like animals just as much as the next person, but I know that there is a line between loving humans and loving animals. God gave us power over the animals. We are superior to them.

I know that I am going to get blasted by all of the animal lovers on here, but it is as if the value of a human life is equal to that of an animals. Not so, in my eyes. You can love animals and love them in a way that you feel as if they are human, but to put them on the same level is a stretch, for me atleast it is. I could never value an animal over any human life.

Let the bashing begin.

 

[Chovy]

Hello Le C,
Just wanted to let you know I agree with you.

Everyone, think of these scenarios:
1a: A baby is found on the street, or in a dumpster, or in the trunk of a car. The baby is taken to the hospital, multiple agencies and professionals are called in to find and prosecute those responsible, a foster home is found, etc.
1b: A puppy is found in a dumpster, or in the trunk of a car. It is taken to the pound, and if not claimed in a few days, it is killed. No one but an employee or volunteer or two at the pound even know of the situation.

There is no comparison.

Here is the missing part of story 1a. The baby is found and taken to the hospital. Multiple agencies and professionals are called in. Very little if anything actually happens to the people who left the baby on the street or in the dumpster. Generally, they are offered parenting classes or free “services” designed to make their lives easier, because their bad choice was a result of things deemed completely out of their control. Baby stays in foster care for a period of time, is returned to the people who originally hurt it, and is left to its own devices to find its way in the world.

I’m not saying that scenario 1b. is a happy one, or that this is what I want to have happen to a puppy or to another animal. I am neither an animal lover nor an animal hater. I just see animals as something that are useful for food and in some cases clothing. I understand that they offer companionship to other people, but I have no need or desire to seek out their companionship. I’ve never hurt an animal other than killing bugs inside of my home, nor would I ever invite an animal into my home unless I someday have a child that needs the assistance of a guide dog.

What I see in society is this. People who hurt animals are deemed to be bad. People who hurt children are deemed to need help. I understand that there are people who work actively to protect animals, and to punish the people who do so and I’m happy that they are making those choices provided it doesn’t infringe on my right to eat meat or to wear leather. I just wish there were a greater quantity of competent professional people who were doing the same on behalf of children and more of a societal response to people who hurt children.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Here is the missing part of story 1a. The baby is found and taken to the hospital. Multiple agencies and professionals are called in. Very little if anything actually happens to the people who left the baby on the street or in the dumpster. Generally, they are offered parenting classes or free “services” designed to make their lives easier, because their bad choice was a result of things deemed completely out of their control. Baby stays in foster care for a period of time, is returned to the people who originally hurt it, and is left to its own devices to find its way in the world.

I’m not saying that scenario 1b. is a happy one, or that this is what I want to have happen to a puppy or to another animal. I am neither an animal lover nor an animal hater. I just see animals as something that are useful for food and in some cases clothing. I understand that they offer companionship to other people, but I have no need or desire to seek out their companionship. I’ve never hurt an animal other than killing bugs inside of my home, nor would I ever invite an animal into my home unless I someday have a child that needs the assistance of a guide dog.

What I see in society is this. People who hurt animals are deemed to be bad. People who hurt children are deemed to need help. I understand that there are people who work actively to protect animals, and to punish the people who do so and I’m happy that they are making those choices provided it doesn’t infringe on my right to eat meat or to wear leather. I just wish there were a greater quantity of competent professional people who were doing the same on behalf of children and more of a societal response to people who hurt children.

You say it so much better than I could!

Very good post :clapping: