Mitre : The Pope Hat is Pagan?

[Matariel]

It was during the Babyonian exile that Jewish scholars came to realize that the foreign Gods did not actually exist in any way.

But I thought that St. Paul said that the gods of the pagan religions were devils or spirits, and that there are “many gods and many lords” but only one Almighty God? I though the early Christians also taught that the pagan gods were devils… after all, Beëlzebul (or Beëlzebub) was considered by the Bible to be a demon, and yet he was also a god worshipped by the Philistines.

 

[SemperReformada]

The hats used by the Pope and others at the vatican were not used until the 1400’s. So its propbably not true that they came from some pagan source.

What difference could it possibly make?

I just don’t see how the origin of the “Pope hat” has anything to do with…well, anything.

 

[Matariel]

What difference could it possibly make?

I just don’t see how the origin of the “Pope hat” has anything to do with…well, anything.

Uh, It has to do with the subject of this thread. Why did you post here if it’s a thread about nothing?

 

[SemperReformada]

Uh, It has to do with the subject of this thread. Why did you post here if it’s a thread about nothing?

If the popes hat has pagan roots, so what?

 

[Eucharisted]

Everything about the Catholic Church, even its very origins, according to anti-Catholics, is pagan. We are pagans, not Christians, according to them. It is sad.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

anyways I am curious about the meaning and the orgins of the Pope’s hat, is it really pagan?, does it represent this " fish GOD" I hear soo much from protestants

I remember growing up in catechism, when being introduced to the papacy, When I saw the Miter cap, I immediately attached it to pentecost when the flame of the Holy Spirit danced on their heads.

Until I got confirmed, my Bishop informed me, that it represents the bible by the way it folds, and the two tassels that hangs from the miter, representing the New Testament and the Old Testaments. Then I realized the Bishops and Popes are a walking living bible taking the Word of God wherever they go.

Talk about putting on Christ, these holy men of God living the consecrated life of an apostle displaying a “Peculiar” people in Jesus Christ seperated from the way of the world.

I love the Eastern crowns, because they join in the Catholic Church which symbolizes the assumption of Mary, and the crowns the promised (chosen) are given when they finish the race.

Taking these symbolic gestures from East and West of the Catholic Church unites the living way by walking our christian faith according to the Word of God made flesh in Jesus Christ symbolized in the Miter of the Pope, and the promise made in the crowning in eternity of all the chosen in heaven symbolized in the Crown of the Patriarch. What a beautiful life in the Catholic faith.

 

[Matariel]

Everything about the Catholic Church, even its very origins, according to anti-Catholics, is pagan. We are pagans, not Christians, according to them. It is sad.

They came from us, so they must have pagan origins too.

 

[FMLJoliecouer]

I wonder what Jesus would say…
what has any of this got to do with love thy neighbour as yourself and love God with all your heart, mind and soul…
I suppose now someone will correct me on this as well…
If is isnt in quotations marks…then please do not think I am attempting an exact quote
I dont think God meant for us to have to defend our faith…whatever it may be…just that we live it and be an example to others…
there are plenty of examples in the Bible on how we are to live.
If someone said to me that the Bishop headress came from the Pagans…I’d say…that’s interesting, oh, and how may I be of service to you today…that should end it pretty quick

Peace and Joy

 

[Soutane]

You know what? I bet that every pagan who has ever lived, or who is now living has two arms and two legs, too! What are these friends planning to do about that?? Consult the “scientists” in that silly ad about re-attaching rabbits’ feet, and get a couple new limbs added??
Because that’s how silly this stuff sounds. (And by the bye, what possible resemblence does the bishops’ headgear have to a fish, anyway??? Who thinks up these things???)

Yay,Zooey!!!

I always thought that the Mitre was symbolic of the "tongue of fire"that the Holy Spirit manifested over everyone’s head in the Upper Room at Pentecost.

 

[Soutane]

Uh, It has to do with the subject of this thread. Why did you post here if it’s a thread about nothing?

 

[nordskoven]

Paganism isn’t inherently evil. Marriage is a pagan sacrament. Wedding rings are a pagan symbol that is perfectly consonant with orthodoxy. How is this possible? It is because there are two forms of paganism. One is the willful perversion of God’s will and nature, and the intent is evil. “Satan” means “adversary” and Satanism is this contradiction of anything God reveals and commands. That’s one type of paganism.

The other type of paganism stems from the corruption of time. Euhemerus is the Greek scholar who, while his views have been interpreted as atheistic, noted that the ancient gods and goddesses were originally historic personages. Nothing more true than in the devolution of the image of Noah and his wife. In art, Noah went from man-with-animal-pairs to animal-man. The art became corrupted as did the mythos.

This corruption of Noah’s image is where our modern image of the devil comes from! Noah, originally flanked with the two symbols of authority of the stem and stern post from the Ark, was later shown with these great posts as a mere grain flail for bounty. Noah had become drunk and naked per the Bible account, and the corruption of time turned Noah into a devil, a naked satyr, a cloven-hooved animal-man with a pitchfork instead of the outdated grain flail.

Noah was also exalted to god status, an immortal, not merely long-lived as his was the last long-lived generation. Those rain, ocean, fish and thunder gods are Noah as corrupted by time. Noah’s wife went from long-lived organizer of goods stored in tapered-footed vessels uniquely suited to sea shipping on Noah’s Ark (because they wedge in and flow shoulder to shoulder when boats shift instead of sliding and blowing out the hull) to immortal goddess with overflowing conical cornucopia.

Dagon is another fishy Noah type like Poseidon, and Dagon’s statue repeatedly threw itself down before the Ark of the Covenant when emplaced in his temple by the pagan Philistines. That sounds like something Noah would do…This is reminiscent of the reported new temple blocks commanded by Montezuma II to appease the cannibal gods in the face of his prophesied Spanish overthrow returning themselves repeatedly to the quarry.

The twin pillars that upheld the temple of Dagon thrown down by Samson derived from Ark architecture. These were the stem and stern post of Noah’s Ark, so structurally impressive that then and now they have in miniature defined the symbols of rulership as the ankh or handled cross, and the scepter. Columnar forms for thousands of years have been bundled plant forms, stones carved to depict the bundled and bound posts that formed the composite dual backbones of Noah’s Ark. The twin pillars of the pagan corruption of Noah as Dagon were the orthodox twin pillars of the Temple of Solomon, not abandoned to pagan error but defined and reaffirmed.

The real issue is not the papal miter as abbreviated helmet form but Peter as the Rock upon which Christ founded His Church. Either Jesus Christ was wrong, and the gates of Hell have prevailed against His Church, or not. Hear and obey or account one’s self as another adversary. The cultural cannibalism happening now, with sacred symbols like the rainbow covenant symbol of God’s promise to never again flood the Earth as in Noah’s day, now turned into profane icons, is of greater relevance. Satanic paganism always takes orthodox elements and perverts them as a reactionary anti-God movement. Careful! The Virgo mother of the Leo of the tribe of Judah may be the “Gospel in the Stars” as D. James Kennedy asserts, astronomy stolen from orthodoxy and not originating in Babylonian astrology, with the true origins hiding in plain sight. May the Lord enlighten the eyes of our hearts.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Those who say that the western mitre is derived from a fish have never actually seen one.

Trust me; they look NOTHING like fish.

Furthermore, the Bishops of Rome were the LAST to adopt the mitre.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It’s really irrelevent if mitres are pagan, Jewish, or made by Prada. Pagans have actually helped to provide clarity to Christian ideas. It was Aristotle, Virgil, Plato, and so many others that had philosophies and ideas that Christians like Augustine and Aquinas used to understand Christian realities.

 

[nordskoven]

Ancient cultures show that they were originally monotheistic and had laws, mores and practices consonant with Genesis, like marriage, and standards of modesty. Then after the Great Flood there arose a kind of ancestor worship because all descended from the eight on the Ark and were eager to preserve and honor their lineage after this momentous event. The Ark-onauts were a culturally huge influences as they were the last long-lived generation. Imagine grandparents and great-grandparents were deceased and the great-great-grandparents were still alive and powerfully influential. Their great ages led to the idea of immortals, like the Eight Immortals of China, or the Ogdoad of Egypt. Just the eight Ark-ites.

A rebellion termed the Patriarchal Revolution ensued, although this was a war on all sacred patriarchs and matriarchs, with husbands killed, the special “women of grace” turned into temple prostitutes, and their offspring slated for death as was King Sargon the Great. Sargon overthrew this system and created an empire for a while but was constantly battling the bad guys of Ur of the Chaldees that would threaten Abraham and Sarah centuries later.

When the rebellion against God first broke out, complete with cannibalism, Noah’s sons, Shem and his brother Japheth, quelled the spread of satanic depradation. They had “big hair” and were depicted as lions. The Sphinx was probably a monument representing Shem. The Great Pyramid of Egypt was built by Shem as a Flood memorial complete with lagoon and mini-Ark. Egyptian heiroglyphs state "the sacred body of Ra (Adam) was on the sacred boat of Nu (Noah). The butterfly granite doors in the Great Pyramid allowed it to act as a hydraulic ram pump, generating a massive heartbeat sound. The copper float found in the Great Pyramid suggests an eternal flame was generated by sulfuric acid dripped into water. This exploded at some point, probably because Shem, the mastermind, wasn’t on the scene to regulate the pyramid functions. The red granite sarcophagus in the Great Pyramid was to inter the bones of the first man, Adam…But the rebellion broke out again.

Monotheism was preserved among a remnant and the lineage given by the Hebrews is that Noah’s son Shem was persecuted for his fidelity, escaped Egypt with the bones of Adam in his safekeeping, buried Adam’s bones first at Golgotha then at Machpelah, and he or one of his hunted lineage was hiding out as Melchizedek, priest-king of Salem to whom Abraham gave bread and wine as an offering. The rest is history.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

What difference could it possibly make?

I just don’t see how the origin of the “Pope hat” has anything to do with…well, anything.

It makes a difference - because it is alternative to the (mistaken) idea that the mitre is from Babylon.​

Which is important, because merely to deny the story is not convincing, unless one can put forward an alternative explanation that accounts for the mitre; or whatever is being discussed. Any can deny something - but not anyone can put forward an alternatiove account of the thing discussed.

The mitre was mentioned to begin with because it is seen as “evidence for the prosecution” - evidence that Papal Rome’s religion is the religion of ancient Babylon (with a Christian veneer, of course). It’s a loooong story; so what it has to do with, is the RCC’s identity as a Christian Church; so for us, the issue is not irrelevant.

 

[Convert66]

I can see why this is an issue for some and how it would fit in with the “Christianity is a copycat religion” thesis of many skeptics. What puzzles me is why another Christian would not see the obvious: we ourselves are former pagans. To say that the Pope’s hat, or an altar, or anything else has “pagan roots” is not fundamentally different than saying a “born-again Christian” or a convert has pagan roots. "Don’t pray with Joe! He has pagan roots! Preposterous.

We are all former pagans . . .

Second, why is the Pope’s Mitre so funny? I have a simple thesis. . .to make the Pope feel ridiculous every time he has to appear in it. Imagine yourself as a serious intellectual, with doctorates and scholarly letters, articles and books, decades of theological study and reflection and also decades of experience as a priest, bishop, etc. under your hat (pun intended). That’s rarified air, and the temptation to pride could be overwhelming at times. Now, imagine that hat is a Mitre and you have to wear it as you stroll for the cameras and for thousands of ordinary folks, fellow priests, representatives of other faith traditions, heads of state, etc. Kind of a humbling experience, wouldn’t you think?

Isn’t the highest title awarded the Holy Father that of “Slave of Christ?” If the Master says, “you’re wearing the funny hat” . . . well, you’re wearing the funny hat.

My two cents . . .

 

[roanoker]

The seminal church historian Eusebius, writing in his most famous book “The History of the Christian Church” about the year 350, tells us that the Apostle John wore a mitre as a “sacrificing priest”. Eusebius spent his entire life researching the earliest facts of Christianity and had resources available that have long been lost to antiquity. I guess if John could wear a mitre, it must be ok.

 

[Eucharisted]

I can see why this is an issue for some and how it would fit in with the “Christianity is a copycat religion” thesis of many skeptics. What puzzles me is why another Christian would not see the obvious: we ourselves are former pagans. To say that the Pope’s hat, or an altar, or anything else has “pagan roots” is not fundamentally different than saying a “born-again Christian” or a convert has pagan roots. "Don’t pray with Joe! He has pagan roots! Preposterous.

We are all former pagans . . .

Second, why is the Pope’s Mitre so funny? I have a simple thesis. . .to make the Pope feel ridiculous every time he has to appear in it. Imagine yourself as a serious intellectual, with doctorates and scholarly letters, articles and books, decades of theological study and reflection and also decades of experience as a priest, bishop, etc. under your hat (pun intended). That’s rarified air, and the temptation to pride could be overwhelming at times. Now, imagine that hat is a Mitre and you have to wear it as you stroll for the cameras and for thousands of ordinary folks, fellow priests, representatives of other faith traditions, heads of state, etc. Kind of a humbling experience, wouldn’t you think?

Isn’t the highest title awarded the Holy Father that of “Slave of Christ?” If the Master says, “you’re wearing the funny hat” . . . well, you’re wearing the funny hat.

My two cents . . .

That makes sense to me

adds your two cents to my piggy bank

 

[peary2]

Hello. you know where I live it’s really not a catholic friendly place. I usually do not debate because debate usually goes no where these days, but I do tell people I will glady answer Questions concerning the Catholic Church, I must admit I do joke around making fun of my own church when people says something that is anti catholic or just plain idiotic and insulting, I decided this was a better way then to gettng angry or frustrated and at the same time it gets my point across.

like for example these two ladies were talking about the “silly hats” popes and bishops wear, the robes, catholics wasting their time praying to mary etc etc and laughing about it and then started to talk about how evil the catholic church is, bringing up it’s history, doctrines and all that . ( these ladies didn’t know I am a catholic) , then I began smiling joking around too, and so I said " and check this out did you hear that the Vatican donated $10,000 to the poor in africa, I mean sheesh can the Catholic Church be anymore evil?!" and i walked away shaking my head, laughing

anyways I am curious about the meaning and the orgins of the Pope’s hat, is it really pagan?, does it represent this " fish GOD" I hear soo much from protestants

The origin of the pope’s TIARA (the correct term) is interesting. The early Christians, who were originally middle eastern, also wore a ‘tocque’ or hat that was a head covering. The word Toque is Arabic “طوق” for “Round” and “طاقية” “Taqia” for “Hat” originally for something “Round” that has an opening. Up until the early Middle Ages, popes and bishops wore this as a sign of their pastoral office in the Church. When the popes assumed temporal power over the Papal States, to the base of the tocque was added a row of jewels, each one representing a papal state. Later, Pope Boniface VIII in 1298 added a second row of jewels symbolizing spiritual dominion over the Church, and in 1342, Pope Benedict XII added a third row of jewels symbolizing his moral authority over all secular monarchs. It also became associated with the office’s spiritual protection by the Trinity with a crosss at the top. Since then, all popes up to John Paul I wore the tiara.

Times change. Paul VI, after his coronation in 1963, layed the papal tiara on the altar of St. Peter’s in a gesture of humility and as a sign of the renunciation of human glory and power in keeping with the renewed spirit of Vatican Council II. Since then, none of his successors has worn a tiara as it had been for the past thousand plus years or so. Now, a mitre is worn. This is proper because, firstly, there are no more papal states; and, secondly, the pope has no moral authority over monarchs since very few of them even exist; the mitre by and of itself assures us of his pastoralship not only over the whole Church but as bishop of Rome.

So, the next time the church ladies give you any grief, you might sack them with some history. But I learned a long time ago, with people like that, you can’t fix stupid.

 

[puppypatrol]

Hello. you know where I live it’s really not a catholic friendly place. I usually do not debate because debate usually goes no where these days, but I do tell people I will glady answer Questions concerning the Catholic Church, I must admit I do joke around making fun of my own church when people says something that is anti catholic or just plain idiotic and insulting, I decided this was a better way then to gettng angry or frustrated and at the same time it gets my point across.

like for example these two ladies were talking about the “silly hats” popes and bishops wear, the robes, catholics wasting their time praying to mary etc etc and laughing about it and then started to talk about how evil the catholic church is, bringing up it’s history, doctrines and all that . ( these ladies didn’t know I am a catholic) , then I began smiling joking around too, and so I said " and check this out did you hear that the Vatican donated $10,000 to the poor in africa, I mean sheesh can the Catholic Church be anymore evil?!" and i walked away shaking my head, laughing

anyways I am curious about the meaning and the orgins of the Pope’s hat, is it really pagan?, does it represent this " fish GOD" I hear soo much from protestants

Here is a good explanation of what a mitre is

newadvent.org/cathen/10404a.htm

There is nothing pagan about it.