Mix of Extrodinary Form and English Novus Ordo Mass

[Evan]

No missal was provided, and we didn’t have any warning. I’ve attended Latin OF masses with priests very well trained in Latin, who I really trust, and even then it was announced and we had handouts provided. I brought printed out ones yesterday.

I am pretty torn-up about what to do, as I teach a few religious ed classes, and he’s cut people out of the RE program before after disagreements. I started Kindergarten RE, and it’s been so beautiful to learn prayers and about the faith with those kiddos. I would hate to lose that…

Could it be that he used an OF Eucharistic prayer you a not familiar with? The EF Eucharistic prayer has not options. The OF has 6 Eucharistic prayers. Two are for special occasions (Funeral etc) and any of the other 4 may be used at any time. In your experience maybe the priests you knew always went with a favorite EP. In Latin, a lot of priests might use EP I (Roman Canon) but any can be used in latin in the OF.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

The OF and EF are actually very similar, especially when the OF is said in Latin. So I would like to know whether the supposed “additions” to the OF from the EF are actual additions at all or rather options that are allowed for the OF. For instance, using the Roman Canon, facing East, using incense, the sprinkling rite, etc. These are all allowed with the OF, but all required for a High EF Mass.

 

[Mike30]

Although that Missal cannot be licitly used anymore.

Quite true but it could very well be the one that he was using not realizing it was illicit to do so.

 

[Mike30]

The OF and EF are actually very similar, especially when the OF is said in Latin. So I would like to know whether the supposed “additions” to the OF from the EF are actual additions at all or rather options that are allowed for the OF. For instance, using the Roman Canon, facing East, using incense, the sprinkling rite, etc. These are all allowed with the OF, but all required for a High EF Mass.

While they are similar in a few limited areas, to say they are very similar is actually stretching it a long way.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

While they are similar in a few limited areas, to say they are very similar is actually stretching it a long way.

Different in practice, not in intent. The changes are the offretory, prayers at the foot of the altar, the first reading, and the Last Gospel. Other than that, it’s quite similar. Two forms, but the same Rite.

 

[Chatter163]

Did he actually say EF or extraordinary form mass? I have actually never heard that spoken outside of this website.

That is the title given to the Traditional rite by Pope Benedict XVI in Summorum Pontificum.

 

[Mike30]

Different in practice, not in intent. The changes are the offretory, prayers at the foot of the altar, the first reading, and the Last Gospel. Other than that, it’s quite similar. Two forms, but the same Rite.

Nope. Sorry but it isn’t. Yes the intent is the same and yes they are two valid expressions of the same rite. No doubt about it. As far as being similar, nope. I have read the statements made by some, usually those who despise the Extraordinary Form, that if you were to attend a very reverent Ordinary Form Mass in Latin you couldn’t tell the difference between it and the Extraordinary Form. Maybe if you had never been to one you would say similar. Maybe.

Sorry my friend, there are very few similarities between the two. Very few. Not saying non existant, there are similarities to be sure, but not many at all.

 

[YoungTradCath]

That is the title given to the Traditional rite by Pope Benedict XVI in Summorum Pontificum.

I’m not sure that’s true. I think the intent is that “extraordinary form” is actually a legal description of the apparent status of the 1962 Roman Missal, and that “ordinary form” is the same regarding the 1969+ Roman Missals and their translations. Notice that in SP, the terms extraordinary form and ordinary form are not capitalized.

 

[Elizium23]

I’m not sure that’s true. I think the intent is that “extraordinary form” is actually a legal description of the apparent status of the 1962 Roman Missal, and that “ordinary form” is the same regarding the 1969+ Roman Missals and their translations. Notice that in SP, the terms extraordinary form and ordinary form are not capitalized.

Whatever the intent was, the result is that yet another dichotomy of terms have been added to the vocabulary for referring to the forms of the Roman Rite. And many of us feel that they are founded in neutrality and given an official approval, so we have been using them in preference to the others.

 

[ProVobis]

And many of us feel that they are founded in neutrality and given an official approval, so we have been using them in preference to the others.

In that case the official would be the Latin forma extraordinaria and forma ordinaria.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_commissions/ecclsdei/documents/rc_com_ecclsdei_doc_20110430_istr-universae-ecclesiae_en.html

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

Nope. Sorry but it isn’t. Yes the intent is the same and yes they are two valid expressions of the same rite. No doubt about it. As far as being similar, nope. I have read the statements made by some, usually those who despise the Extraordinary Form, that if you were to attend a very reverent Ordinary Form Mass in Latin you couldn’t tell the difference between it and the Extraordinary Form. Maybe if you had never been to one you would say similar. Maybe.

Sorry my friend, there are very few similarities between the two. Very few. Not saying non existant, there are similarities to be sure, but not many at all.

I’ve been to plenty of EF Masses, and still I say they are quite similar. The differences are exaggerated by schismatics. Are there problems with typical OF Masses? Of course. However, if done in Latin and using the Roman Canon and an altar rail, they are quite similar.

 

[Mike30]

I’ve been to plenty of EF Masses, and still I say they are quite similar. The differences are exaggerated by schismatics. Are there problems with typical OF Masses? Of course. However, if done in Latin and using the Roman Canon and an altar rail, they are quite similar.

I never mentioned problems with Ordinary Form Masses.

Differences are not necessarily problems.

I would truly like to see an Ordinary Form Mass that could be confused with an Extraordinary Form Mass. I really would. Especially since you can tell just by looking at the start of the Mass that they are different and the differences continue throughout the Mass…

Oh, and by the way, Altar Rails are in no way required for Extraordinary Form Masses. I don’t know where that particular idea came from.

And as an aside, which schismatics are you referring to?

 

[YoungTradCath]

I never mentioned problems with Ordinary Form Masses.

Differences are not necessarily problems.

I would truly like to see an Ordinary Form Mass that could be confused with an Extraordinary Form Mass. I really would. Especially since you can tell just by looking at the start of the Mass that they are different and the differences continue throughout the Mass…

Oh, and by the way, Altar Rails are in no way required for Extraordinary Form Masses. I don’t know where that particular idea came from.

And as an aside, which schismatics are you referring to?

Epiphany Mass this year with Pope Benedict was sublime. If I could attend that every day I’d quickly forget about the EF.

 

[Mike30]

Epiphany Mass this year with Pope Benedict was sublime. If I could attend that every day I’d quickly forget about the EF.

Thats good. Why ?

 

[Esrb99]

Epiphany Mass this year with Pope Benedict was sublime. If I could attend that every day I’d quickly forget about the EF.

I was at Pope Benedict’s Midnight Mass this past Christmas and while it was an amazing experience, I still love my area TLM. We have such a unique and vibrant parish life at the oratory, that I cannot imagine things differently. With the institute, we’re able to experience a rotating cast of top notch canons from around the world, and yet still have a core group of the canons and oblates who are at our oratory on a regular basis, giving us a parish feel.