Mixed race relationship's

[otjm]

I cherish other cultures and that is what I intend to preserve for the most part. I posted this to see if there was any scriptural positions on this and not be attacked by a few responding with emotions and opinion.

My question has to do with if the general consensus would be in being a sinful nature to expect my children to stay within their own race in dating/marriage. Personally I see it as we should try to continue our heritage as best as possible as I have not found reason for otherwise.

As I noted in my prior post, there has been “racism” against Italians, Germans, Irish and others, by other European groups.

So I am not sure where you are going with this. Is this about marrying within a culture? Or a race? Or both? Suppose for the minute that you are ethnically German, and a farmer; does that mean you think your kids should not marry an Irish banker, or an Italian attorney? That they should marry farmers? What if one of those farmers in the area happens to be of a different race, but a successful farmer? Which is more important to you - culture (farmer) or race?

Racism is in the first part, judging others by externals. Is racism sinful?

Or to ask the question another way, is racism Christ like?

I think all of us want our children to be happy, successful, to find good spouses, and to follow Christ. When we start to put externals as a significant decision point, we are not seeing the person, but externals of that person. We are called to see Christ in others (and Mother Theresa is a prime example of that ability).

So if we supposedly see Christ in others, but don’t want to have a relationship with them - or our children to have a relationship with them, it appears that we are putting externals way higher than the internals.

And I don’t find anything in the Gospels that supports that. In fact; I find something very different.

As I noted, racism is stronger in some people than others; in some areas rather than others; and it is not unreasonable to want our children to not have to deal with that. I don’t want my child discriminated against, because she “married the wrong person”. But ultimately it is up to her as to whom she marries, and considering that I have dated “outside my race” with a number of individuals, race is not a factor in what I want most for them.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

After reading some more responses, I am really taken back by the responses of some with name calling etc. . In the op it did not have any mention of children being of mix race being bad. The question had to do with culture and many have turned it otherwise.

You specifically mentioned race:

My question has to do with if the general consensus would be in being a sinful nature to expect my children to stay within their own race in dating/marriage.

 

[Avocadomom]

After reading some more responses, I am really taken back by the responses of some with name calling etc. . In the op it did not have any mention of children being of mix race being bad. The question had to do with culture and many have turned it otherwise.

You didn’t mention children of mixed race being bad. You mentioned not wanting your children to marry people of other races.

When you say that people are not qualified to marry your offspring because they are not of a race that you prefer, you are a racist. You may not like to think that is true, but it is.

This is very different than not wanting your children to marry people of other faiths. We believe that there is only one true religion, Catholicism, and that Catholicism is superior to all other denominations - and so of course we want our children to raise Catholic families with Catholic spouses. We do not believe that there is a race that is superior to others. We should not have a racial preference.

We are all children of God. How petty it must seem to Him that we make such a big deal of race.

 

[His_helpmeet]

To begin, I will say for those accusing me of being a fascist. I understand Mosulinni (sp) had a faction called blackshirts. I can assure you that is no my namesake. Feel free to google Husker Cornhusker football and you will find the name is for the starting defense due to jersey color.
Now with that aside. I do believe it is up to me as a parent to approve or disapprove of relationships of my kids. There will always be a epitome to most rules though. I cherish other cultures and that is what I intend to preserve for the most part. I posted this to see if there was any scriptural positions on this and not be attacked by a few responding with emotions and opinion.

You do have the right to approve the relationships of your minor children while they are under your roof. Whether or not you approve of your children’s relationships, once they reach adulthood, though, is not relevant to their decisions unless you can see a very serious problem (e.g. abuse) and warn them about it in advance. If you express displeasure at your child marrying “outside” the culture, or especially “outside” the race, it’s likely a sure bet that you will not be seeing any of your grandchildren.

Marrying “outside your own race” does not necessarily mean that your heritage will be “lost”. Many children of mixed heritage incorporate customs and traditions from both sides of their families.

 

[Sneaux]

I don’t really see anything wrong with personally wanting to carry on your culture, but I also don’t see how mixing cultures and race is “detrimental” My mom’s first husband was Mexican, so all of my older siblings are half Mexican, and I’m the only full white kid my mom has, it’s not really mentioned in my family, everyone in my family just loves each other. Isn’t that what family’s really about? Loving each other, and what marriage is about…Marriage is about love…not preserving one color or one culture.

 

[EasterJoy]

Poles marrying Irish, Irish marrying Italians, Italians marrying Germans, Germans marrying Latinos…the mixing of all the children of the Universal Church is the American way. It has been this way for a long time.

If your child marries a Catholic, the chances are that your family’s way of being Catholic are going to be received positively. If your child marries a non-Catholic with your ethnic background, however, the connection between faith and family is on weaker ground.

The most important treasure your family handed on to you is your Catholic faith. Stress that. As for the rest, be open to teaching and learning. If your grandchildren wind up, for instance, with both Italian traditions have to do with St. Joseph and Mexican traditions for Our Lady of Guadalupe, not to mention all the other faith-connected traditions of those two great Catholic nations, those are going to be some rich kids!

If your child marries a recent convert, the chances are that they will be very enthusiastic about having family traditions to go with the more universal aspects of the faith, so I wouldn’t worry about that, either. Tell you child to find a good Catholic. That is a tall enough order. Do that, though, and the rest will follow.

 

[njlisa]

One of the reasons I was so drawn to the Catholic Church was its lack of racism. It is, after all, a universal church.

Pray that your children wind up with good, decent spouses. That’s the best you could hope for. My father is Puerto Rican. My late mother is white. And I’m proud to be brown.

 

[Blackshirtproud]

Ok, I want to start over a bit. I was on my about to die cell phone and was trying to keep things brief.

My point in this has to due primarily with culture and in my area of the states it is divided more into racial culture. Not as it would be so much in Europe or Southern Hemisphere Americas. So you would have Asian culture/race, Latin culture/race, black culture /race, white culture/race and so so on. Are we clear on what I am stating?

My town I am in has a heavy Latin culture/race due to meat packing plant. So we more than likely in my town would be talking Latin or Sudanese culture/race that would be first to second generation American citizenship assumption.

My issue is that I do not see a lot of assimilation attempt from these groups and from those that I know in these relationships have pretty much given up one heritage for the other on both sides. This is what I would want to avoid. The same as a non Catholic entering marriage with a Catholic.

This is not an attempt to say race/culture A is bad and race/culture B is superior. We try our hardest to keep our traditions in faith but why is it not acceptable to due so otherwise.

Does this make sense?

 

[njlisa]

Ok, I want to start over a bit. I was on my about to die cell phone and was trying to keep things brief.

My point in this has to due primarily with culture and in my area of the states it is divided more into racial culture. Not as it would be so much in Europe or Southern Hemisphere Americas. So you would have Asian culture/race, Latin culture/race, black culture /race, white culture/race and so so on. Are we clear on what I am stating?

My town I am in has a heavy Latin culture/race due to meat packing plant. So we more than likely in my town would be talking Latin or Sudanese culture/race that would be first to second generation American citizenship assumption.

My issue is that I do not see a lot of assimilation attempt from these groups and from those that I know in these relationships have pretty much given up one heritage for the other on both sides. This is what I would want to avoid. The same as a non Catholic entering marriage with a Catholic.

This is not an attempt to say race/culture A is bad and race/culture B is superior. We try our hardest to keep our traditions in faith but why is it not acceptable to due so otherwise.

Does this make sense?

Lots of Latinos assimilate – my father among them. And our Holy Father is from Argentina.

 

[Allegra]

I don’t know it if it wrong for a person to prefer to marry someone from his or her own race or culture or whatever, but it’s definately wrong to put that expectation on others. Your children may not feel that preserving your race or culture is important to them and you need to be okay with that.

 

[boomerang]

Ok, I want to start over a bit. I was on my about to die cell phone and was trying to keep things brief.

My point in this has to due primarily with culture and in my area of the states it is divided more into racial culture. Not as it would be so much in Europe or Southern Hemisphere Americas. So you would have Asian culture/race, Latin culture/race, black culture /race, white culture/race and so so on. Are we clear on what I am stating?

My town I am in has a heavy Latin culture/race due to meat packing plant. So we more than likely in my town would be talking Latin or Sudanese culture/race that would be first to second generation American citizenship assumption.

My issue is that I do not see a lot of assimilation attempt from these groups and from those that I know in these relationships have pretty much given up one heritage for the other on both sides. This is what I would want to avoid. The same as a non Catholic entering marriage with a Catholic.

This is not an attempt to say race/culture A is bad and race/culture B is superior. We try our hardest to keep our traditions in faith but why is it not acceptable to due so otherwise.

Does this make sense?

If the immigrants in your area have not assimilated, I would think that your chance of ending up with a foreign son or daughter-in-law would not be very high. Perhaps you are worrying over nothing. Are your children showing signs of being attracted to these immigrants, or whatever they are?

 

[Blackshirtproud]

Again I will apologize . I am not good at putting thoughts into paper. I will say, I have gained helpful insight and meant no harm and apologize if I offended anyone.

Requiem

 

[Virga]

This is just my experience as a daughter. I know that my parents prefer that I marry someone within our race, because they hope that their grandchildren will carry on our traditions. My parents aren’t racist, but they do value their heritage. They’re immigrants from the Vietnam and seeing how younger generations lose touch with our culture is sad for them…

However they understand that it’s ultimately my choice, and that’s the important thing. So I think it’s fine to have a personal preference, but you just need to keep in mind that it will be your child’s decision in the end.

Just my opinion but I don’t think it’s sinful in itself to have a preference to marry within a culture/race, depending on the reason [for example, my parents’ case]. However, if a person were to perceive other humans as having less dignity because of race or culture, that bias will turn into an uncharitable attitude and possibly lead to sinful actions.

 

[EasterJoy]

Again I will apologize . I am not good at putting thoughts into paper. I will say, I have gained helpful insight and meant no harm and apologize if I offended anyone.

Requiem

My pastor was saying today how much he liked doing the Latino liturgies at one of his old assignments. The ones who are devout (i.e., the ones he knew) were very devout. He said they were very serious about the concept on not approaching the Eucharist without having gone to confession, for instance, and took anything that could be a mortal sin very seriously. Many first-generation Catholics from around the world are like this. If they immigrate and do not use the new place as an excuse to quit going to church, they tend to be particularly devoted Catholics.

Now, if someone has attitudes that would make them a bad influence on your child or grandchildren with respect to keeping the faith, that would be bad. A cultural influence that winks at serious sin is a bad cultural influence. You kind of have to take that on a case-by-case basis, though. Each nation, it would seem, is beset by the evil one with some temptations more than others, but not all. You cannot tell.

Again: encourage your child to look for a good Catholic, not excusing bad habits because of “culture.” Then do not worry about ethnic background. Those who come to the US tend to be some of the best citizens, you know, just as those who do the work to enter the Church as adults are often the most serious Catholics. That is what matters–that is, whether or not the two spouses will help each other and their children to eternal life.

Having very different cultural backgrounds can cause problems if your child is one of these who gets very excited about new things but then becomes disenchanted later, or if your child is going to expect a Catholic from elsewhere in the world to “assimilate.” If virtue, truth, and love of God are the only non-negotiables, though, and your child has good character with regards to keeping friends and does not bore of them, I think he or she could have a very good marriage from a strong Catholic with a different background. You would do well to warn them that they will have to stick with what is important and give in on lesser things!

Without the shared religious heritage, though, a very different cultural background is much harder. As Catholics, however, the cultural heritage of some of us sort of belong to all of us, as part of the rich treasury of the faith.

 

[EasterJoy]

My pastor was saying today how much he liked doing the Latino liturgies at one of his old assignments. The ones who are devout (i.e., the ones he knew) were very devout. He said they were very serious about the concept on not approaching the Eucharist without having gone to confession, for instance, and took anything that could be a mortal sin very seriously. Many first-generation Catholics from around the world are like this. If they immigrate and do not use the new place as an excuse to quit going to church, they tend to be particularly devoted Catholics.

I meant to say many Catholics who are first-generation Americans are very devout. Think about it: If you immigrate, the danger of defection from the faith is very high, compared to staying where everyone notices if you live the faith or not. Some lose the faith, because no one from home is around to see that they’ve become lax. If you are serious about the faith, though, it is a way you make the new place your home, it is how you cope with the difficult transition to a new country, it is what shows you how important God is in your life. That is why immigrant Catholics are some of the most beautifully devout Catholics.

 

[EasterJoy]

…My issue is that I do not see a lot of assimilation attempt from these groups and from those that I know in these relationships have pretty much given up one heritage for the other on both sides…

When American expatriates find a big group of fellow English-speakers in a foreign country, their assimilation can be slowed down by a lot. It is comforting to speak your mother tongue. You can express yourself quickly and easily, without embarrassment. It is hard to learn a new language, and you have a willingness to reach out to people that may not appreciate your first stumbling efforts to speak the language. If you can imagine what it would be like to be an American working at a menial job in Paris with other Americans, you might be able to understand how it would feel. This is why so many first generation waves of immigration don’t learn English. Their children learn it, but the first generation has many people who don’t. You know how difficult it is to learn English, too. Unlike Spanish, the spelling is an unreliable guide to pronunciation.

If you have many Spanish-speaking Catholics in your area, BTW, you have a good reason to learn to speak Spanish! It gives a great appreciation of what the immigrants are going through, believe me!!

 

[severus68]

I just want to point out that this person’s username is “blackshirtproud.” “Blackshirt” is and was a nickname for various fascist groups.

Good catch.

 

[severus68]

There was a time that marrying an Italian, or a German, or an Irish was to cross the line.

In some areas, interracial marriage pretty much gets no notice; in others, it can be problematic for the couple, or one of them, because like it or not, there are racists among us. Some racism is mild, like you express: " Personally I see it as we should try to continue our heritage as best as possible as I have not found reason for otherwise.".

Heritage? As in, “We don’t marry that type”?

Some of it (and again, somewhat area-dependent) would likely not even cause a head to turn. For example, we have a large population in the US from Central and South America. Many are indigenous, others are partially indigenous and partially Spanish; others are pure Spanish. My roommate in grad school was from Peru and was partly indigenous and partly Japanese.

So a marriage between an Hispanic and a European background individual would not be particularly one to arose racist responses in many, if not most people. And in some areas, a marriage between a “white” and someone with an African heritage wouldn’t even be “noticed”. In other areas, particularly where the African American population is small, it would be more noticed. The issue then is, to what extent it would be problematic with others, and how is the couple going to deal with it? And that question includes how the grandparents are going to react… particularly since it may not be part of their “heritage”…

The fact that some people may find interracial marriage problematic should not be an issue or a reason not to marry someone of a different race.

 

[severus68]

I’ve seen families really try to instill their language and culture in their children but have kicked Jesus and Catholicism out to the curb.

The salvation of Christ and His Church trumps all languages and cultures. Pray for that.

Yes!

 

[severus68]

I see nothing wrong with wanting your children to carry on the family race/culture. It’s the way it’s been for millennia, and it’s the reason why we have different races, ethnicities, nationalities, religions and cultures. All these differences make the world interesting.

I like my ethnicity and culture and I would not like to see it bred away for the sake of political correctness or any other reason. But when your kids are grown, as in everything, they will decide for themselves.

So, should Christ have told the apostles to keep to their own race?