Mixed religion family issues

[Gullveig]

So, this is a really long story, therefore I’ll just hit the high points. My mother’s side of the family is primarily Catholic, and most of them virtually disowned her when she switched religions as a young adult, including her parents. The only relative she has had regular contact with since then up until recently has been an aunt that she got on well with. Anyway, she and my grandmother were able to reconcile tentatively earlier this year, as my grandmother is very ill. My father, brother, and I went with her to visit them. It was weird, but in retrospect, it probably went about as well as could be expected and my mom is finally back on speaking terms with her family. I will probably be travelling with her again later this fall to visit when my grandmother has her surgery.

The problem is that the way my grandfather and several other relatives treat my mother, and the rest of us as well, really bothers me. My grandfather in particular is very condescending and rarely misses an opportunity to bring up religion. He’s said some things that I found really uncalled for and which I know hurt my mom deeply. Normally, my mom is very capable of taking care of herself, but she’s trying to smooth things over and get along with everyone because she’s worried about my grandmother and doesn’t want her to die without them being okay with each other, and I’m certain that my grandfather knows this and is exploiting her unwillingness to cause a scene. He tried to do the same thing with my brother and I, but we turned it into a running gag at his expense and he stopped. Similar things have happened with other members of the family, and one of my uncles gets very testy whenever my brother or I try to interact with our cousins. His son is interested in going to school in the same field I’m in, so the kid wanted to talk to me about it, but his father kept interrupting and sending him out of the room for various reasons.

Basically, I want to get to know my family, but it just seems like they’re entirely too willing to give and take religious offence where we’re concerned. I appreciate that this may be at least partially motivated by concern, but the way they go about it makes it come off more like a personal attack. I’d rather not discuss religion or other sensitive topics with them at all, but they seem to go to feel like they need to bring it up. I’d like to talk to them about this, as I don’t feel the need to put up with the more ham-handed attempts at proselytizing or justify having different opinions, and I definitely don’t want to just stand by and let my grandfather essentially emotionally abuse my mother, but I don’t want to upset them or make them feel like I’m dissing their religion. So, from a Catholic perspective, what would be the best way to approach the subject of religious boundaries with Catholic family members as a non-Catholic?

 

[HandyAndy]

After reading this…I’m reminded of the image of Jesus and of his glowing sacred heart. Christ’s love coming from within.
Unfortunately the Catholic side of the family have gone out of their way to dim the glowing presence of Christs love. A love he longs to share with each and everyone of his children. I’m embarrassed for the Catholic side of your family and their destructive behavior. They would certainly not inspire one to become a Catholic with such displays of bitterness and hate.
There is an old saying, “You get more bees with honey, than vinegar.”

As a Catholic, I don’t fear open discussion if that were desired by anyone non Catholic. I have nothing to fear.

I respect peoples freedom of choice, to believe or not. We are all God’s children and he calls each of us in his own time. I judge a religion on what it produces from the people within it.
Your Catholic family need to pull their socks up!

 

[MJJean]

Since your mother is so concerned about reconciling with her family before one of them passes away, making this time sensitive, has it ever crossed anyone’s mind to go talk to the family priest? Devout Catholics do tend to listen to the advice of their priests and many priests are tolerant/friendly toward other religions. If you and/or your mom explained the entire situation to the priest and asked him to talk to the family maybe they’d lay off and let the differences of faith drop. Worth a try to arrange a phone chat (since you mentioned travel I assume you live a bit far apart) and see how it goes. I’m sure he’d be sympathetic considering the situation.

And please keep loving and supporting your mom. I’ve lost my mother and one of the small comforts I had was that we were close and I’d had a chance to thank her for being my mom and apologize for all my rotten child behaviors before she passed. Your mom will need all the love and support she can get when the time comes. And so will your Grandfather.

 

[MomaMary8]

Since your mother is so concerned about reconciling with her family before one of them passes away, making this time sensitive, has it ever crossed anyone’s mind to go talk to the family priest? Devout Catholics do tend to listen to the advice of their priests and many priests are tolerant/friendly toward other religions. If you and/or your mom explained the entire situation to the priest and asked him to talk to the family maybe they’d lay off and let the differences of faith drop. Worth a try to arrange a phone chat (since you mentioned travel I assume you live a bit far apart) and see how it goes. I’m sure he’d be sympathetic considering the situation.

And please keep loving and supporting your mom. I’ve lost my mother and one of the small comforts I had was that we were close and I’d had a chance to thank her for being my mom and apologize for all my rotten child behaviors before she passed. Your mom will need all the love and support she can get when the time comes. And so will your Grandfather.

I agree with the advice to talk to her priest. Honor your grandmother by seeking counsel from a faithful priest. Please also remember that when death is known to be near, as Catholics, we surround our loved ones with prayers. This can be a beautiful (although sorrowful) time when we watch one prepare to meet our Lord in Heaven. I see you say you are a Heathen? Perhaps during this heightened time of prayerful vigil, they are not able to “filter” their religious comments that you find over the top, and they may not be able to accept your ideas with charity.

Also, please try to be patient with your grandfather. He is facing the death of his wife and needs to cope with this. Being cheerful may be quite a struggle for him right now. Perhaps you can be as kind as possible and leave the door open to reconciliation after the grieving is done.

My prayers for you and your entire family.

 

[Kal2012]

Sometimes adults are worse than kids.

You are not responsible for their behavior towards your mom, but you have every right to defend her and not be treated badly yourself.

I’d also point out that they need to direct their anger towards your mom, not you, since you weren’t the one who “left the family”. You have a right to be treated with respect and “dignity”, regardless of how they feel towards your mom.

Usually, it really isn’t that big of a deal if someone changes religion. If you are sincere and can explain why the old religion wasn’t working for you, then people tend to respect that. It’s reasonable for parents to feel disappointed that their kids aren’t carrying on the faith, but most times parents don’t disown their kids over religion. That’s just extreme. (It sounds like your mom was in a cult and the moment she didn’t believe, she was kicked out! Huh???)

Most Catholics simply don’t behave this way. There’s a lot of emotional manipulation/abuse going on. I’d question most things they say about Catholicism, especially since their actions don’t seem to meet up with what Jesus taught. (You know, the basics, “the golden rule” Forgiving people…)

Get the answers you need about where you come from, but don’t let people abuse your kindness. Realize, though, that sometimes you won’t like the answers you get.

Good luck to you.

 

[Deana83]

I think this is more of a dysfunctional family issue than a religious one. I can’t imagine disowning one of my children or alienating them because of religious choices; unless of course it was some type of fanatical, terrorist, suicidal, homicidal, Satanic freakfest cult-and even then I wouldn’t disown, my mission would be to rescue or have them committed. I’m in the conversion process and have had to put up with some hostility from my parents who are charismatic fundamentalists. Intolerant people of any religion or non-religion get on my nerves. I wouldn’t let grandpa verbally abuse your mother or you. She has in good faith tried to set things right with her mother and so if the rest of your kin want to be stupid that’s their problem. Her conscious should be clear. I wish you well.

 

[MomaMary8]

Sometimes adults are worse than kids.

You are not responsible for their behavior towards your mom, but you have every right to defend her and not be treated badly yourself.

I’d also point out that they need to direct their anger towards your mom, not you, since you weren’t the one who “left the family”. You have a right to be treated with respect and “dignity”, regardless of how they feel towards your mom.

Usually, it really isn’t that big of a deal if someone changes religion. If you are sincere and can explain why the old religion wasn’t working for you, then people tend to respect that. It’s reasonable for parents to feel disappointed that their kids aren’t carrying on the faith, but most times parents don’t disown their kids over religion. That’s just extreme. (It sounds like your mom was in a cult and the moment she didn’t believe, she was kicked out! Huh???)

Most Catholics simply don’t behave this way. There’s a lot of emotional manipulation/abuse going on. I’d question most things they say about Catholicism, especially since their actions don’t seem to meet up with what Jesus taught. (You know, the basics, “the golden rule” Forgiving people…)

Get the answers you need about where you come from, but don’t let people abuse your kindness. Realize, though, that sometimes you won’t like the answers you get.

Good luck to you.

Yes, to some it is a very big deal!! If one of my children left the Catholic faith and became a Heathen (we don’t know what religion the mom is) I would be heartbroken, distraught, lost, …you name the emotion, I’m sure I’d feel it! I would not feel remotely “ok” or happy about it. Love them, yes. And a distraught emotion would be the result of caring for a child lost to the faith.

I think to paint the grandparents as emotionally abusive is premature on our part. We do not know their side of the story and we do not know all the past history between the family members. All we can do is guide this young man in our knowledge of our faith, and ask him to be charitable to his relatives (as best as he can.)

I still think a death bed is not a time to expect surrounding family members to be happy and cheerful. Give them time.

 

[Gullveig]

Since your mother is so concerned about reconciling with her family before one of them passes away, making this time sensitive, has it ever crossed anyone’s mind to go talk to the family priest?

I hadn’t thought about this, as I don’t actually know a whole lot about Catholicism beyond the very rote basics or about what the exact social role of priests in your religion is. But, I met my grandparent’s priest briefly when we were visiting last time and he seemed like a decent enough guy, so I may give him a call and see what he thinks and if maybe he would be willing to meet with us while we’re up there next to try and sort out some of the bad feelings.

Also, please try to be patient with your grandfather. He is facing the death of his wife and needs to cope with this. Being cheerful may be quite a struggle for him right now. Perhaps you can be as kind as possible and leave the door open to reconciliation after the grieving is done.

I don’t really expect anyone to be cheerful in this situation, least of all my grandfather who I’m certain is very upset about all this and rightly so. But, I feel that there’s a difference between being upset and not very cheerful and essentially taking any opportunity to try and guilt my mother into returning to the Church, telling her that she’s going to Hell and that it hurts my grandmother, and sort of intimating that God is using my grandmother’s illness to get a point across to my mom. That’s what really gets me about it, because I feel that it’s totally inappropriate and uncalled for under the circumstances. My mother is upset about my grandmother possibly dying when she has barely seen or spoken to her in 30 years, and I don’t think it’s too much to ask that he tone it down a couple of notches out of compassion for his daughter AND his wife.

Usually, it really isn’t that big of a deal if someone changes religion. If you are sincere and can explain why the old religion wasn’t working for you, then people tend to respect that. It’s reasonable for parents to feel disappointed that their kids aren’t carrying on the faith, but most times parents don’t disown their kids over religion. That’s just extreme. (It sounds like your mom was in a cult and the moment she didn’t believe, she was kicked out! Huh???)

I sort of get where they’re coming from, even if I think they’ve desperately overreacted, as the country they live in is something less than 1% native Catholic and it’s a very secular and liberal country in general, so the Catholic community there is tight-knit and there seems to be more of an emphasis on keeping kids in the faith. I don’t think my family there is completely nuts, I just think that whatever happened when my mom converted years ago has really sensitized them to the issue.

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. Like I said, I know practically nothing about Catholicism, though I’ve been trying to learn about it now in order to try and get some perspective on what’s happening.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

I agree that the main issue appears to be more about family dysfunction and respect for boundaries than religion specifically. I have major religious differences with some people in my family, and when I decided it was time to stop arguing, I said something like, “I really don’t want to argue with you about religion. We are not going to change each others’ minds here, but we have the potential of really getting upset and hurting our relationship. Let’s just agree to disagree for now, and talk about the things that aren’t such sensitive topics.” I have found that this initial conversation is not always received the way I hope. I have had folks argue with me about it, but I just maintained that I love them and want a good relationship with them, and right now that means not getting into these sensitive topics. Then when someone brings the conversation up again, you can make shorter comments like, "didn’t we decide to not discuss these topics? Let’s talk about something else. So what do you think about _____? " (and have a light hearted topic ready to discuss, like the weather, or sports, or whatever you can pull off).

 

[jjgigem]

So, from a Catholic perspective, what would be the best way to approach the subject of religious boundaries with Catholic family members as a non-Catholic?

I have lived in this situation for many, many years because my family is composed of multiple Christian faiths including Baptist, Mormon, Methodist, non-demoninational and Catholic. The best advice that I can offer is to not respond to personal verbal assaults on my beliefs and turn over any attacks to God by offerring up prayers and spending time in the Eucharist Chapel. Driving to a Eucharist Chapel and spending just 15 minutes there will change my personal attitude because it takes me back to the Passion 2,000 years ago which is why I am a Christian. I always try to find the similarities instead of the differences in people that are from religious backgrounds that are different from my own. If they are attending Sunday church services and reading scripture then that is wonderful. By staying calm and remaining active in my own faith, I can attract others to my way of life. I was attracted to the Catholic faith by an outsider who exhibited these traits. I also volunteer at RCIA at my local parish and learn a lot from strangers that are interested in the Catholic faith. The RCIA ministry has taught me a lot about getting along with others even if they find fault in me.

 

[MJJean]

I hadn’t thought about this, as I don’t actually know a whole lot about Catholicism beyond the very rote basics or about what the exact social role of priests in your religion is. But, I met my grandparent’s priest briefly when we were visiting last time and he seemed like a decent enough guy, so I may give him a call and see what he thinks and if maybe he would be willing to meet with us while we’re up there next to try and sort out some of the bad feelings.

I don’t really expect anyone to be cheerful in this situation, least of all my grandfather who I’m certain is very upset about all this and rightly so. But, I feel that there’s a difference between being upset and not very cheerful and essentially taking any opportunity to try and guilt my mother into returning to the Church, telling her that she’s going to Hell and that it hurts my grandmother, and sort of intimating that God is using my grandmother’s illness to get a point across to my mom. That’s what really gets me about it, because I feel that it’s totally inappropriate and uncalled for under the circumstances. My mother is upset about my grandmother possibly dying when she has barely seen or spoken to her in 30 years, and I don’t think it’s too much to ask that he tone it down a couple of notches out of compassion for his daughter AND his wife.

I sort of get where they’re coming from, even if I think they’ve desperately overreacted, as the country they live in is something less than 1% native Catholic and it’s a very secular and liberal country in general, so the Catholic community there is tight-knit and there seems to be more of an emphasis on keeping kids in the faith. I don’t think my family there is completely nuts, I just think that whatever happened when my mom converted years ago has really sensitized them to the issue.

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. Like I said, I know practically nothing about Catholicism, though I’ve been trying to learn about it now in order to try and get some perspective on what’s happening.

It’s good that you’re trying to learn about Catholicism so that you can understand where your maternal grandfather and that side of the family are coming from. Partly so that you can maybe find a way to make peace and partly because Catholicism is not just a religion, it’s a culture that is part of your heritage.

I am converting to Catholicism from being a childhood Lutheran, to a teen/adult Pagan and then a late 20’s to early 30’s Atheist/Agnostic. Every time I have had contact with the priest and the Sister that minister to our parish I have been met with nothing but kindness and compassion. Remember, priests and nuns are people who have dedicated their lives to serving God and mankind. They have often been educated in psychology and/or some kind of social work and they have experience dealing with difficult family situations. They are there to help. Make that call as soon as you can.

I agree that your grandfathers comments are hurtful and uncalled for. However, I can see why he may be behaving that way. His daughter left the faith and did not raise her children in the faith. So, he must feel as if the souls of his family members are in danger. On top of that, he also is worried about losing his wife of many years and he knows she is worried about the souls of her child and grandchildren. Part of it may be that he is hurting and angry and acting out and part of it could be that he is trying to “fix” the problem for his wife so she will not worry and neither will he. He’s just going about it badly. You’re absolutely right that he should tone it down and act with love and compassion for his wife and daughter. Hopefully, the priest will have a chat with him and tell him just that.

I truly hope that your whole family can reconcile and learn to agree to disagree. And I hope you continue to investigate Catholicism. The history and culture of the Church is very interesting and worth knowing about even if you never intend to join the Church. Plus, regardless of religious beliefs, there is a lot of wisdom in the Church’s teachings that have practical real world applications that you could benefit from. And by “you” I mean humans in general. Even before I began converting I recognized that if some Catholic teachings were applied by everyone we’d have a lot less drama and bull pucky floating around in society.