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jimmy
Guest
According to what Islam and the koran says? I would not agree that is the true Jesus. The true Jesus is as the Catholic Church understands Him…
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True-Jesus
Guest
Jimmy said:
“… It is funny that the Greek fathers, who by the way, knew the Greek language, considered this a true statement of Christs divinity. They believed it meant exactly what we claim it to mean…”
It is not funny why previous fathers percieved or read their own thoughts in the manuscripts of the Bible. It is funny how they did it. So:
Why they did it, ofcourse we know and it is not funny but:
How they did it, it is undoubtedly deceptive and really amazing and funny at the same time.
They probably thought no one will notice it. For a long period of time Bible was not freely accessible to everyone as much as it is now. So the ‘holy deception’ was under the Bible covers for long period. But when people somehow got the golden chance to access/analyze the Bible, then their deception was as evident as the ‘holiness’ of the Bible itself and as a result many people began to question and then abandon the “Christianity” of St. Saul/Paul. The very existence of the Bible became fragile. It is a loooong and sad story you all should know ASAP, to save your necks from the Hellfire before it is too late.
“… It is funny that the Greek fathers, who by the way, knew the Greek language, considered this a true statement of Christs divinity. They believed it meant exactly what we claim it to mean…”
It is not funny why previous fathers percieved or read their own thoughts in the manuscripts of the Bible. It is funny how they did it. So:
Why they did it, ofcourse we know and it is not funny but:
How they did it, it is undoubtedly deceptive and really amazing and funny at the same time.
They probably thought no one will notice it. For a long period of time Bible was not freely accessible to everyone as much as it is now. So the ‘holy deception’ was under the Bible covers for long period. But when people somehow got the golden chance to access/analyze the Bible, then their deception was as evident as the ‘holiness’ of the Bible itself and as a result many people began to question and then abandon the “Christianity” of St. Saul/Paul. The very existence of the Bible became fragile. It is a loooong and sad story you all should know ASAP, to save your necks from the Hellfire before it is too late.
J
jimmy
Guest
Chrysostom gave his homilies to Greeks. Chrysostom was not the only one who knew Greek. Many of the Latins knew Greek like Jerome, Augustine, and Ambrose. Is Islam really that much of a conspiracy centered religion that they think that everyone is out to decieve?
I also find it amazing that you think you know the Greek language better than those who were fluent in it.
The Bible was not accessible? Do you want to change your answer? Augustine, when he was a pagan had his own copy of the scriptures. Chrysostom in his homilies, on John atleast, exhorts the people to read the relevant scriptural passages before they came to Liturgy. He tells them to atleast on Sunday before they come to the Liturgy to read the passages over and over and over so that they have it in there mind when they come to The Liturgy and they have a good idea of what it says. That is not something that he would say if the scriptures were limited and people could not read them.
We know the story quite well and we are on the right track.
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True-Jesus
Guest
Jimmy,
Even now when the Bible is freely available, how many of Christiandom/catholics/Protestants really know what is really in the Bible? How many of them have read the entire Bible?
Even the regular church-goers, I think, do not know much except what they are repeatedly programmed with misunderstandings and half-baked knowldege of their respective church.
Now think about these questions:
Why Martin Luther held a public burning of the bull of the canon law in a dramatic renunciation of Papal Authority?
Why and how in 1521 he was excommunicated from the Catholic Church?
Howcome Luther married a former nun, Katharina von Bora, and raised six children?
How he convinced that the Catholic Church was opposed to the Bible on the question of justification by grace, through faith, and that no accommodation of his beliefs on this point was possible within the church.?
Further, how he concluded that reform of the church had to happen through formation of a new body of Christians?
Why Luther denied the authority of the Pope and many other aspects of Catholic teachings, including the doctrine of transubstantiation?
Jimmy!..I don’t have to change my answer. It is a fact that Bible was not freely accessble to the bulk for a long period of time.
Even now when the Bible is freely available, how many of Christiandom/catholics/Protestants really know what is really in the Bible? How many of them have read the entire Bible?
Even the regular church-goers, I think, do not know much except what they are repeatedly programmed with misunderstandings and half-baked knowldege of their respective church.
Now think about these questions:
Why Martin Luther held a public burning of the bull of the canon law in a dramatic renunciation of Papal Authority?
Why and how in 1521 he was excommunicated from the Catholic Church?
Howcome Luther married a former nun, Katharina von Bora, and raised six children?
How he convinced that the Catholic Church was opposed to the Bible on the question of justification by grace, through faith, and that no accommodation of his beliefs on this point was possible within the church.?
Further, how he concluded that reform of the church had to happen through formation of a new body of Christians?
Why Luther denied the authority of the Pope and many other aspects of Catholic teachings, including the doctrine of transubstantiation?
Jimmy!..I don’t have to change my answer. It is a fact that Bible was not freely accessble to the bulk for a long period of time.
T
True-Jesus
Guest
Genesis315:
Lets see how self-proclaimed, self-appointed St.Sual/Paul changed the true teachings of Jesus Christ (pbuh).
The real creator of original sin is in fact Paul. He clearly states: “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law).
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come” (Romans 5:12-14); “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (I Corinthians 15:22).
But Ezekiel says that we can be saved from spiritual death and separation from God by “doing that which is lawful and right”? In sharp contrast to what Christianity preaches, Islam believes that Adam and Eve repented unto God for their human weaknesses and forgetfulness and were both forgiven.
In Genesis 3:17, however, it is very clear who was at fault for the fall of mankind: “And unto Adam he (God) said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life.”
It is little wonder why the Christian churches debated up until the Middle Ages as to whether or not a woman possessed a soul! Are we as Muslims denying that man has a sin problem? Certainly not.
Lets see how self-proclaimed, self-appointed St.Sual/Paul changed the true teachings of Jesus Christ (pbuh).
The real creator of original sin is in fact Paul. He clearly states: “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law).
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come” (Romans 5:12-14); “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (I Corinthians 15:22).
But Ezekiel says that we can be saved from spiritual death and separation from God by “doing that which is lawful and right”? In sharp contrast to what Christianity preaches, Islam believes that Adam and Eve repented unto God for their human weaknesses and forgetfulness and were both forgiven.
In Genesis 3:17, however, it is very clear who was at fault for the fall of mankind: “And unto Adam he (God) said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life.”
It is little wonder why the Christian churches debated up until the Middle Ages as to whether or not a woman possessed a soul! Are we as Muslims denying that man has a sin problem? Certainly not.
T
True-Jesus
Guest
Torah (Law) Obedience
According to Pauline doctrine, Jesus’ death on the cross signifies the end of Torah “bondage,” as he puts it (Galatians 5:1).
Believers were now “living in the grace” and had only to trust in the redemptive work of Christ at Calvary and nothing more. Paul says very clearly: “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law” (Galatians 3:13).
Paul also obliterates all of the Mosaic dietary restrictions as well as the practice of circumcision despite the latter being called “an everlasting covenant” by God in the Torah (Genesis 17:13).
But Jesus Christ (pbuh), a practicing Jew, held the Law of Moses (pbuh) as sacred and binding during all of his life. Let’s look at one example:
"And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you” [Leviticus 11:7].
But the Christians of today have no qualms about eating the flesh of pigs.
According to Pauline doctrine, Jesus’ death on the cross signifies the end of Torah “bondage,” as he puts it (Galatians 5:1).
Believers were now “living in the grace” and had only to trust in the redemptive work of Christ at Calvary and nothing more. Paul says very clearly: “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law” (Galatians 3:13).
Paul also obliterates all of the Mosaic dietary restrictions as well as the practice of circumcision despite the latter being called “an everlasting covenant” by God in the Torah (Genesis 17:13).
But Jesus Christ (pbuh), a practicing Jew, held the Law of Moses (pbuh) as sacred and binding during all of his life. Let’s look at one example:
"And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you” [Leviticus 11:7].
But the Christians of today have no qualms about eating the flesh of pigs.
T
True-Jesus
Guest
** While Paul destroys the Law, Jesus (pbuh) demands its strict observance **
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.
Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.
Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-20.
Jesus is basically saying: “I am not here to abrogate the Torah, but to confirm it. In truth I tell you, as long as heaven and earth endure nothing will be gone from the Law until all that must happen has happened. Whoever decides not to follow even the smallest of the commandments will be in the lowest rank in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps all of them and teaches them to others will enjoy the highest rank in the kingdom of heaven.
If your obedience to the Law is not greater than the Scribes and Pharisees, then you can not expect to enter Paradise.” There is no heaven for you if you are not better than the Jew! Are not the heavens and the earth still intact?
Therefore, the Law is still in effect and must be followed.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.
Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.
Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-20.
Jesus is basically saying: “I am not here to abrogate the Torah, but to confirm it. In truth I tell you, as long as heaven and earth endure nothing will be gone from the Law until all that must happen has happened. Whoever decides not to follow even the smallest of the commandments will be in the lowest rank in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps all of them and teaches them to others will enjoy the highest rank in the kingdom of heaven.
If your obedience to the Law is not greater than the Scribes and Pharisees, then you can not expect to enter Paradise.” There is no heaven for you if you are not better than the Jew! Are not the heavens and the earth still intact?
Therefore, the Law is still in effect and must be followed.
T
True-Jesus
Guest
Is there original sin?
JESUS/Judaism : No - Mark 9:13-14 / Ezekiel 18:20-21.
PAUL : Yes - Romans 5:12-14 / Corinthians 15:22
JESUS/Judaism : No – Mark 2:16-17; Matt. 15:24
PAUL : Yes – Romans 3:10, 23.
JESUS/Judaism : Yes – Matt. 5:16; John 10:24-25. 42:23.
PAUL : No – Ephesians 2:8-9; Galatians 3:6-14.
JESUS/Judaism : Yes – Matt. 19:17; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Exodus 20:6.
PAUL : No – Galatians 2:16, 3:11,3:24; Romans 2:13.
JESUS/Judaism : No – Mark 12:28-29; Matt. 9:13; Hosea 6:6.
PAUL : Yes – Ephesians 5:2; Galatians 3:13; Hebrews 9:26.
JESUS/Judaism : No - Mark 9:13-14 / Ezekiel 18:20-21.
PAUL : Yes - Romans 5:12-14 / Corinthians 15:22
ISLAM : No– Qur’an 6:164.
Are we all unrighteous people?JESUS/Judaism : No – Mark 2:16-17; Matt. 15:24
PAUL : Yes – Romans 3:10, 23.
*ISLAM * : No – Qur’an 33:70-38:82-83.
**Do our good works have any bearing before God? **JESUS/Judaism : Yes – Matt. 5:16; John 10:24-25. 42:23.
PAUL : No – Ephesians 2:8-9; Galatians 3:6-14.
ISLAM : Yes – Qur’an 24:38;
Is it necessary to follow the physical laws and commandments of God?JESUS/Judaism : Yes – Matt. 19:17; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Exodus 20:6.
PAUL : No – Galatians 2:16, 3:11,3:24; Romans 2:13.
ISLAM : Yes – Qur’an 6:151-153
**Is atonement through sacrifice necessary? **JESUS/Judaism : No – Mark 12:28-29; Matt. 9:13; Hosea 6:6.
PAUL : Yes – Ephesians 5:2; Galatians 3:13; Hebrews 9:26.
ISLAM : No – Qur’an 3:77.
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chb03c
Guest
lol oh man you crack me up. I am reading your reasons and I have decided to leave you alone and let you make an absolute fool of yourself. If you knew half of what you are saying you would find yourself an embarrisment!
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jimmy
Guest
I will take quotes from saints that show that it was widely accessible, you can take your own opinion. The Saints testify to the fact that it was very widely used.
Does it matter what Luther denied? Not really, his faith does not affect that of the Church. What the average person knows also does not affect it. It is there no matter what they believe.
Islam lost the Caliph, so I guess that means that Islam is wrong.
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jimmy
Guest
True-Jesus said:
Do you honestly take these references seriously? How can you relate Matt9;13 to the atonement? That does not even come close to mentioning it. Read those verses again You really need to think through these verses.
You are very selective with the verses you accept. “All things were made by Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” [John1;3] Jesus was eternal and made everything.
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Delgadoajj
Guest
Code:
:eek:If, on Easter day I take some of those plastic eggs that are places in people’s yards for children to find, and put a christian symbol in it, what am I doing? This is really not a trick question, because I am doing the same thing the early Christians did: I am Christianizing what was once pagan. I am bringing Christ to the Worls through something as simple (but popular) as an Easter egg (and plastic). This is just using your imagination a little.
For Christ’s sake, have a little faith in Jesus’ words: “not even the powers of hell will prevail against her”.
Jorge.
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nianka
Guest
Why don’t you save us all the trouble and “transliterate” it yourself? There’s the rub.
nianka
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PMV
Guest
“TrueJesus”, you still have not answered any of the following posts yet;
PMV:
PMV:
PMV:
I’m waiting for my replies.
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