Mocking of the Divine Office/LOTH in the movies?

[kurtmasur]

Not too long ago, I watched the “Planet of the Apes” movie series (all 5). In the 2nd movie, “Beneath the Planet of the Apes,” there is a scene in which a particular liturgical service is taking place (the religion in question is purely fictional, but is an apparent mock-up of Catholicism). Has anybody else seen this movie and scene? And if yes, do you think that that scene is an actual mock-up of the Divine Office/Liturgy of the Hours?

There is a celebrant, a choir, a congregation, and the organist is reading some sheet music labeled “Psalm”. There is plenty of responsorial chanting (not gregorian, though), and they even recite their own version of the “Glory be” after finishing a part of their chant. ( The only exception to all this is when members of the congregation have to “show themselves” to their “god”–they literally unmask themselves in order to show themselves).

It certainly isn’t a new concept to see Catholicism and Christianity mocked in films. But I find it interesting that they mock a liturgical service other than the Holy Mass, in this case a a prayer service hour from the Divine Office. Any thoughts on this? Sorry if my post seems a bit strange, but this is the only place I feel I can find like-minded people to discuss this with.

 

[MarieVeronica]

Hi Kurt. Are you talking about the original “Planet of the Apes” movies… with Charleton Heston? I was a kid, when the original film came out. But I seem to have a vague memory of the second film… and the scene you describe.

All I can say to it now, as an adult… is… it doesn’t surprise me. As you say, these types of attacks on Christians (and Catholics, in particular…) have been going on for some time in the so-called entertainment industry. It started out rather, subtlely. And over time, has gotten very blatant. Television is no better.

Long gone… are the days when we saw the likes of Bing Crosby, Ingrid Bergman, Debbie Reynolds, Spencer Tracy etc. in respectful portrayals of Catholic priests and nuns. Or films like “Jesus of Nazareth”, “The Greatest Story Ever Told”… “A Man for All Seasons” etc., etc.

Hollywood seems “hell-bent” on giving Christians a bad name. We can all remember pretty well the “reception” that Mel Gibson’s “Passion of the Christ” received from Hollywood. :nope:

As a native of Southern California (as well as a Roman Catholic)… I can truly say, that I am thoroughly ashamed of my home states major “industry”. It seems pretty clear that the enemy is calling the shots in Hollywood.

Pray!

 

[kurtmasur]

Hi Kurt. Are you talking about the original “Planet of the Apes” movies… with Charleton Heston? I was a kid, when the original film came out. But I seem to have a vague memory of the second film… and the scene you describe.

All I can say to it now, as an adult… is… it doesn’t surprise me. As you say, these types of attacks on Christians (and Catholics, in particular…) have been going on for some time in the so-called entertainment industry. It started out rather, subtlely. And over time, has gotten very blatant. Television is no better.

Long gone… are the days when we saw the likes of Bing Crosby, Ingrid Bergman, Debbie Reynolds, Spencer Tracy etc. in respectful portrayals of Catholic priests and nuns. Or films like “Jesus of Nazareth”, “The Greatest Story Ever Told”… “A Man for All Seasons” etc., etc.

Hollywood seems “hell-bent” on giving Christians a bad name. We can all remember pretty well the “reception” that Mel Gibson’s “Passion of the Christ” received from Hollywood. :nope:

As a native of Southern California (as well as a Roman Catholic)… I can truly say, that I am thoroughly ashamed of my home states major “industry”. It seems pretty clear that the enemy is calling the shots in Hollywood.

Pray!

Yes indeed, I am referring to those original films with Charleton Heston.

You’re right about films, especially modern-day films, tend to portray Catholicism in a negative light. I’ve noticed this not only of Hollywood but of independent cinema as well. Somehow bashing Catholicism seems to be the “in” thing to do in their industry. The Enemy is certainly behind all this.

 

[LilyM]

Well, we still have ‘Passion of the Christ’ (couldn’t have been made in the '50s or '60s, that’s for sure, it would’ve been sanitised and wussified out of all recognition).

And the ‘Nativity Story’ is good.

Yes, the service in Planet of the Apes may have similarities to Christianity (my understanding is that Morning/Evening prayer from the Anglican Book of Common Prayer is quite similar to Catholic LOTH). THis doesn’t automatically equal mockery.

A major premise of the movie(s) was that the ape culture is incredibly similar to the Western human culture that the astronaut had come from (not to mention most viewers!).

Of course they heightened this similarity by showing the apes following a religion that was similar to the Western Christian form that most viewers would identify with. Just like the apes spoke English, the language with which most viewers would be familiar.

That they spoke English was not a mockery of English-speakers. Neither is it necessarily true that their similarity of religion was a mockery of Christianity or Catholicism.

 

[Matariel]

Also, the god they worshipped, was a super-atomic bomb.

In the end of th movie their god, the bomb, is activated and explodes, killing both humans and apes.

 

[MarieVeronica]

Yep. Sad, isn’t it.

Do you get EWTN on your cable or satellite? If so… they will sometimes give a plug to the occasional worthwhile movie on “Life on the Rock” (Thursday nights).

The most recent one that I can recall was for the movie “Bella”. They don’t give plugs too often… because there simply aren’t that many movies worth plugging.

 

[Eucharisted]

Beneath the Planet of the Apes is actually an interesting film, as it shows what Christianity would be like if God had created apes as the consummation of the world.

I thought the litugrical scene was also quite interesting, because it actually referred to Angelicanism (the song they sing is “All Things Bright and Beautiful”). Perhaps the film makers were Angelican themselves? I don’t know.

The only negative feeling I have toward the film is the supposed notion throughout the movie that religion is evil and religion kills. Of course, it’s equally likely that the filmmakers were trying to show that the corruption of religion is what kills the world. But I do get a sense that it is the former rather than the latter.

 

[Matariel]

The only negative feeling I have toward the film is the supposed notion throughout the movie that religion is evil and religion kills. Of course, it’s equally likely that the filmmakers were trying to show that the corruption of religion is what kills the world. But I do get a sense that it is the former rather than the latter.

Also, the religion of the Apes is strikingly similar to Judaism. For instance, they speak of “the Lawgiver” and at one point a statue of the lawgiver ape is shown holding stone tablets (reminiscent of Moses).

The surviving humans have a Christian-like religion, only, the god behind the altar in their church is a super-atomic bomb. They chant and sing hymns to it.

 

[kurtmasur]

Beneath the Planet of the Apes is actually an interesting film, as it shows what Christianity would be like if God had created apes as the consummation of the world.

I thought the litugrical scene was also quite interesting, because it actually referred to Angelicanism (the song they sing is “All Things Bright and Beautiful”). Perhaps the film makers were Angelican themselves? I don’t know.

The only negative feeling I have toward the film is the supposed notion throughout the movie that religion is evil and religion kills. Of course, it’s equally likely that the filmmakers were trying to show that the corruption of religion is what kills the world. But I do get a sense that it is the former rather than the latter.

You mean Anglicans? (not Angelicans)

I didn’t know that the hymn comes from an Anglican service (or Book of Common Prayer). So perhaps it is this that they are mocking? (as opposed to the LOTH).

 

[Eucharisted]

You mean Anglicans? (not Angelicans)

I didn’t know that the hymn comes from an Anglican service (or Book of Common Prayer). So perhaps it is this that they are mocking? (as opposed to the LOTH).

I just know the song they sing is Anglican.

Sorry about the screw up on the name. I think “Angelican” because that’s how I pronounce it, and because I think the Anglicans are rather nice people.

 

[kurtmasur]

Well, we still have ‘Passion of the Christ’ (couldn’t have been made in the '50s or '60s, that’s for sure, it would’ve been sanitised and wussified out of all recognition).

And the ‘Nativity Story’ is good.

Yes, the service in Planet of the Apes may have similarities to Christianity (my understanding is that Morning/Evening prayer from the Anglican Book of Common Prayer is quite similar to Catholic LOTH). THis doesn’t automatically equal mockery.

A major premise of the movie(s) was that the ape culture is incredibly similar to the Western human culture that the astronaut had come from (not to mention most viewers!).

Of course they heightened this similarity by showing the apes following a religion that was similar to the Western Christian form that most viewers would identify with. Just like the apes spoke English, the language with which most viewers would be familiar.

That they spoke English was not a mockery of English-speakers. Neither is it necessarily true that their similarity of religion was a mockery of Christianity or Catholicism.

Yes, I get your point about how it’s not necessarily mockery. Nevertheless, I think you’re stretching the definition of “mockery” a little to far in forming your arguments. According to dictionary.com, “to mock” means:

1. to attack or treat with ridicule, contempt, or derision.
2. to ridicule by mimicry of action or speech; mimic derisively.

The Book of Common Prayer, nor the fact that the apes in those films speak English certainly don’t appear to fit those definitions. The liturgical service in the film, on the other hand, uses a prayer that sounds almost identical to the “Glory be”, as well as a form of prayer service with a strong resemblance to actual liturgy. As somebody else already mentioned here, part of the film’s message was that of against religion, in particular Christianity/Catholicism. Therefore it seems that the liturgical scene in that film is indeed mocking a liturgical service (ie. LOTH/Divine Office/Book of Common Prayer).

On a seperate note, thanks for pointing out modern-day films that prove to be an exception about portraying Christianity in a negative form.

 

[LilyM]

Yes, I get your point about how it’s not necessarily mockery. Nevertheless, I think you’re stretching the definition of “mockery” a little to far in forming your arguments. According to dictionary.com, “to mock” means:

1. to attack or treat with ridicule, contempt, or derision.
2. to ridicule by mimicry of action or speech; mimic derisively.

The Book of Common Prayer, nor the fact that the apes in those films speak English certainly don’t appear to fit those definitions. The liturgical service in the film, on the other hand, uses a prayer that sounds almost identical to the “Glory be”, as well as a form of prayer service with a strong resemblance to actual liturgy. As somebody else already mentioned here, part of the film’s message was that of against religion, in particular Christianity/Catholicism. Therefore it seems that the liturgical scene in that film is indeed mocking a liturgical service (ie. LOTH/Divine Office/Book of Common Prayer).

On a seperate note, thanks for pointing out modern-day films that prove to be an exception about portraying Christianity in a negative form.

Fair enough. I didn’t actually realise that the scene was from a later film in a ‘Planet of the Apes’ franchise, or that that film had a more general anti-religion message. In those circumstances your comments are logical.

 

[Matariel]

On a seperate note, thanks for pointing out modern-day films that prove to be an exception about portraying Christianity in a negative form.

If you say that the movie attacked Catholicism or Anglicanism, then you must also say it mocked Judaism, as the religion of the Apes was similar to Judaism. It was the surviving humans who worshipped a bomb with a Christian-like liturgy.

Personally, I don’t think it was meant to mock either one. I think it’s point was to show that people had degenerated, and after experiencing massive violence, the only god that still had power in their eyes was the Super-A Bomb, which explodes at the end of the movie and kills all humans and sentient apes alike.

 

[Lujack]

If you say that the movie attacked Catholicism or Anglicanism, then you must also say it mocked Judaism, as the religion of the Apes was similar to Judaism. It was the surviving humans who worshipped a bomb with a Christian-like liturgy.

Personally, I don’t think it was meant to mock either one. I think it’s point was to show that people had degenerated, and after experiencing massive violence, the only god that still had power in their eyes was the Super-A Bomb, which explodes at the end of the movie and kills all humans and sentient apes alike.

I agree with you. I would say that the scene was meant to reference Catholicism (or at least High Church Anglicanism, but I don’t think it was meant to mock it.

After all, the whole series is built on the twist of Charlton Heston being on an earth gone horribly wrong, but remaining just familiar enough to give viewers a bit of a shock. Worshipping an A-bomb certainly gives that shock, and cloaking it in a familiar form of worship allows it give viewers the willies a little bit. I don’t think there’s any malice.

 

[Matariel]

I agree with you.

LOL, see we agree on something-- as long as it’s not political, LOL.

(Inside joke… )

 

[kurtmasur]

I agree with you. I would say that the scene was meant to reference Catholicism (or at least High Church Anglicanism, but I don’t think it was meant to mock it.

After all, the whole series is built on the twist of Charlton Heston being on an earth gone horribly wrong, but remaining just familiar enough to give viewers a bit of a shock. Worshipping an A-bomb certainly gives that shock, and cloaking it in a familiar form of worship allows it give viewers the willies a little bit. I don’t think there’s any malice.

Interesting views. I hadn’t seen it from this angle.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

If one wants to find mockery of religion in film, they needn’t go back to 1970 to do so.

It was a pretty poor movie, and pretty weak sauce as far as anti-religious moments go.

It did lead to a funny Futurama moment though:

Fry and the gang visit an underground city of mutants and visit the Cathedral, where an unexploded atomic bomb rests on the altar–
Fry:
A BOMB? You guys worship a BOMB?

Mutant:
Yeah, but most of us don’t take it that seriously.
It’s more a Christmas and Easter kind of thing…

 

[Phillipos]

Overall in the last 40 years of popular media, long strides have been made to portray Christianity as a brainless bigoted religion. If you watch the simpsons or family guy think back to the countless amount of times they have made fun of the clergy, the scriptures, or God.

How many of you saw Dogma or Saved? Weren’t you pretty mad at how they made your faith look?

What I find amazing is the millions of dollars that we as Christians pour into media even though they are critisizing our faith with no repentance. Its almost as if we enjoy it or something.

 

[MarieVeronica]

Overall in the last 40 years of popular media, long strides have been made to portray Christianity as a brainless bigoted religion. If you watch the simpsons or family guy think back to the countless amount of times they have made fun of the clergy, the scriptures, or God.

How many of you saw Dogma or Saved? Weren’t you pretty mad at how they made your faith look?

What I find amazing is the millions of dollars that we as Christians pour into media even though they are critisizing our faith with no repentance. Its almost as if we enjoy it or something.

Yes. And let’s not forget one of the “granddaddy’s” of most recent times… “The Da Vinci Code”. That ridiculous pack of lies, masquerading as a major film event… was based on the book by Dan Brown (well known anti-Catholic author)… and directed by none other than Ron Howard (yep, Opie Taylor! Ritchie Cunningham… folks). And starring Tom Hanks.

I was so disappointed by that one. Because I had previously enjoyed most films directed by Mr. Howard. But now… I wouldn’t walk across the street to see a Ron Howard film for FREE. :nope: