Modern Church Architecture; No Place For God

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ctos said:
Has anyone thought of getting rid of pews altogether? I wonder how that would be. Perhaps experimentally it could be done in a few places. They must be expensive to buy, install, and maintain, and once in place they fill up the space quite rigidly. They weren’t necessary for quite a long time it seems. And no metal chairs either. Just standing and kneeling.
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YOU HAVE IN THAT STATEMENT forgetten the elderly and people who have bad arthraitis problems like my wife. I by the way belong to a parish where the church was built inc 1870, partially by an ancestor of mine. I refuse to belong to any moder style parish.
 
ctos said:
Has anyone thought of getting rid of pews altogether? I wonder how that would be. Perhaps experimentally it could be done in a few places. They must be expensive to buy, install, and maintain, and once in place they fill up the space quite rigidly. They weren’t necessary for quite a long time it seems. And no metal chairs either. Just standing and kneeling.
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This would be difficult, given that the elderly, weak and infirmed would not be able to get from a kneeling to standing position with nothing to hold onto for support. Parents with young children would have to hold their babies etc while standing, they would not be able to kneel with them without much difficulty. The Latin mass is very clear as to when to sit, stand or kneel. This is the way to follow. Sitting during the homily is appropriate. Jesus taught with the people sitting around Him.
 
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What the heck is this?
 
Deacon_Ed said:
Hmmm…a “traditional Catholic” forum and people are pushing for something introduced by the Protestants! Strange…

The early churches had no pews – just a few benches around the outside for the elderly, infirm and pregnant women. They would stand for the entire liturgy (for the Copts that is over 3 hours!).

Deacon Ed
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Pews are Protestant? LOL Again Deacon Ed, Vatican II doesn’t say pull things out of the 3rd Century…it says organically grown.
 
Uxor said:
Pews are Protestant? LOL Again Deacon Ed, Vatican II doesn’t say pull things out of the 3rd Century…it says organically grown.
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Yes, pews come from the Protestant tradition. With the advent of the 45 minute sermon it was necessary for the people to sit – and so pews were invented. Without a need to stand, and kneel, sitting became the normative posture for Protestants (with the exception of Anglicans and High Church Lutherans). Catholics adopted pews first in this country (copying the Episcopalians) and, later, in others.

If one looks at the great cathedrals in Europe one doesn’t find pews (although some have added them in the last 50 years or so). St. Peter’s is a great example – no pews, just chairs set out for special Masses and a few at each of the side altars.

Deacon Ed
 
Michelle2006 said:
Not so strange if you have ever had to stand through a 3+ hour service. I like heating, air conditioning, and electric lights in a church too, also not found in early churches.
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Um, I do stand that long. Serving in the East we have the Prayers before the Doors, Prothesis, Orthros and the Divine Liturgy. We start at 8:30 with setup and aren’t done until 12:30. Nope, I know it well! BTW, I do like heating (although in California that’s not usually needed), air conditioning and lights – although some of our services are done with candle light only!

Deacon Ed
 
Deacon_Ed said:
Yes, pews come from the Protestant tradition. With the advent of the 45 minute sermon it was necessary for the people to sit – and so pews were invented. Without a need to stand, and kneel, sitting became the normative posture for Protestants (with the exception of Anglicans and High Church Lutherans). Catholics adopted pews first in this country (copying the Episcopalians) and, later, in others.

If one looks at the great cathedrals in Europe one doesn’t find pews (although some have added them in the last 50 years or so). St. Peter’s is a great example – no pews, just chairs set out for special Masses and a few at each of the side altars.

Deacon Ed
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I think what they did was prostrate not stand. I’m all for that!😃
 
Deacon_Ed said:
Um, I do stand that long. Serving in the East we have the Prayers before the Doors, Prothesis, Orthros and the Divine Liturgy. We start at 8:30 with setup and aren’t done until 12:30. Nope, I know it well! BTW, I do like heating (although in California that’s not usually needed), air conditioning and lights – although some of our services are done with candle light only!

Deacon Ed
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I COULD stand, but because of a bad back, I’d be out of commission for 2-3 days after that. I have to stand in line for confession 30-40 minutes sometimes on Travertine tile and it about kills me. I know we offer our suffering up to God, but surely God finds no pleasure in non-sensical suffering? “Here, stand on that concrete floor for three hours to show Me you love Me.”

If Protestants brought in pews, then let’s hear it for my Protestant ancestors.
 
paramedicgirl’s link to the contrasting architecture I think helps to define, in part, why so many Catholics are leaving. It is interesting that while so many Catholics are giving up the pews (sometimes even with cushions for further comfort) many of them are popping up in Orthodox churches without pews and are extremely happy. They do, of course, have chairs discreetly placed around the periphery for those who need them

The architectural differences shown in those pictures is stunning, the new devoid of any spiritually inspiring murals, windows, and of course the Taj Mahoney is simply disgraceful. They say to build churches like the old ones is prohibitively expensive but you’re not going to tell me that what is built is actually cheaper.

I feel one goes to church to enter a different world, a sacred world, and one should be either stunned by a church’s simplicity and yet spiritually transformed by the power of that simplicity, or the traditionally ornate to inspire and lift the spirit. Either or. We have churches in our diocese that range from trailers to massive modern monstrosities to only one traditional (the Cathedral, the smallest in North America). Yet even that had been covered up and diminished by several make-overs until the new priest decided to restore it to its (almost) former self and it makes a huge difference on how you feel spiritually and emotionally. I feel surrounded by the power and mystery of the Triune God, warmly embraced, in either sort of church. A church is not merely a building; it is much, much more.
 
aspawloski4th said:
YOU HAVE IN THAT STATEMENT forgetten the elderly and people who have bad arthraitis problems like my wife. I by the way belong to a parish where the church was built inc 1870, partially by an ancestor of mine. I refuse to belong to any moder style parish.
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I agree. My parish celebrated it’s 150th anniversary two years ago. The altars are white marble from Italy, the statues are beautiful and the stained glass windows are priceless. There are no cushions on the pews, but the kneelers are padded. Since I grew up in this church it is a very reverent place for me. But the social gatherings in the pews prior to Mass, the choir practicing while people are entering for Mass does put a damper on praying. IMO the more a church looks like a civic auditorium, the less condusive it is to prayer and meditation.
 
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