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GemmaRose
Guest
Oh sure. Go report to the Bishop that this congregation is joyfully praising the Lord! What an abuse!
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GemmaRose
Guest
AMEN !
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lambw
Guest
Just a note. I recently had to attend a church (denomination) other than my own for a class. I went with a classmate to a baptist church and there was a lot of handclaping. I work for a methodist church and they have a lot of hand clapping there as well. Both these churches also have bands playing during their services with electric guitars and drums tamborines etc.
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lambw
Guest
Sorry I am new here and did not know how to do the Quote . But the above note about the baptist and methodist and hand clapping etc. is just to let you know some of the baptist may have changed some since the time when you went there.
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GemmaRose
Guest
… I’ll ask again: what did youths and teenagers do 60, 70, 80, 100, 300 years ago? Why were the youths of several decades ago able to “survive” the Mass? Granted, there are cultural problems today that make it harder for children (and their parents), but should the Church’s response be to “go with the flow”?
**I’ve heard this argument before in other threads (from you?) but I don’t think it’s valid for the following reason: Look how much society has changed in the past 50 years… look at the change in the past 100 years! We’ve gone from a society where God was an ever-present reality to one where the reality which smacks us in the face every day we leave our homes (and inside also if you watch TV) is sex, drugs, power, sex, fame, success, oh, and did I mention, sex? The only time “God” becomes a reality for some people is when a movie is made alleging that Jesus married and fathered children.It’s gone way past being only a problem. It’s a tragedy. I don’t advocate changing the Mass, or dogma, or anything, to suit the current culture, nor do I promote outrageous exhibitions at Mass. But if one genre of music over another, a homily that speaks to the teens of the realities in their lives, if these draw them… this is good.
Whereas the Church once needed to do no more than whisper the truth, the Church’s response today should be shouting it from the rooftops. If a “Folk like” Mass with contemporary music and a clap here and there (now I always like to stress: no puppets!) draws more people, of any age, then that’s a good thing.
Should every single Mass be like this? No. There should also be Masses with more traditional musical choices and homilies that address more adult themes. The music and the homilly are basically the differences. The bulletin should list the Masses appropriately, e.g.: 7:30 A.M. (no music); 9:30 A.M. (contemporary music); 11:00 (choir), so if anyone goes to a 9:30 Mass expecting Gregorian chant, they have no reason to complain if they see a tambourine.**
Have you, as a youth minister, helped catechize the youth of your parish so that they understand the liturgy and understand how they “actively participate” in it?
**Japhy, I’m just curious - have you ever worked with young people? Have you ever tried to get them to Mass? (And I don’t mean as a parent.)
When they’re teens and going through that “I don’t believe any adults and all authority stinks” phase, it doesn’t matter how they’ve been catechized, they’ll either stop going to Mass or at the barest minimum, put up a fight about it. If one Mass over another draws them, this is a good thing. They do grow out of this attitude and hopefully by then, will continue to go to Mass and remember the catechesis they’ve received by all the devoted men and women who have worked so hard to impart the faith to them.
**
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japhy
Guest
(By “go with the flow”, I meant that the Church should change with the times, reflecting what is currently popular, rather than “stand firm” and require change outside of Herself. As G.K. Chesterton put it, we don’t need a Church that moves with the world, we need a Church that moves the world.)
I’d counter and say that the Church made it through the Industrial Revolution without changing its liturgy. It battled modernism tooth-and-nail and resisted atheistic communism. To say that “God was an ever-present reality” is to look through rose-colored glasses.
“Adult themed” homilies? I’d prefer that they simply contain true Catholic teaching. And while I have seen parishes advertise the type of music at each Mass, I’ve never seen one list the type of homilies to be given… could you imagine people avoiding a Mass because they don’t want to hear a homily about a particular (perhaps difficult) topic?
I’m not a parent yet, so I have no experience in that regard. But no, I haven’t ever tried to get young people to go to Mass.
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TheGhost
Guest
Honestly, don’t you guys ever get tired of this argument? This will be my last look at any thread that smacks of “tamborines at Mass” or “Modern music at Mass” etc…
I certainly lean traditionalist, so I do get worked up too, when I read some of the comments.
But, I’ve resigned myself to losing the war-- maybe not every battle, but the long capaign in which post-modernists chip away at the edges until they succeed in making the Mass more about “feeling good” vs obtaining the graces of the Eucharist. They are passive-aggressive and relentless. They probe and push and nudge. The tambourines and electric guitars slowly (but surely) make their way from the good ole 6pm “youth and teen” Mass, to the 10:30am and finally the 8:30am Mass. We folks who are predisposed to charitable tolerance are eventually overrun. By the time we get teed off about it, it’s already institutionalized.
I just don’t think the Vatican will button down the language to an extent that will turn the tide; any possible sliver of wiggle room will be justification for slowly “Protestantizing” the Mass-- not because it’s going to save more souls per se, but because it evokes the emotional high that the post-modernists seek. To them, if they are not being moved to tears or clapping, it’s just not worship.
God bless!
I certainly lean traditionalist, so I do get worked up too, when I read some of the comments.
But, I’ve resigned myself to losing the war-- maybe not every battle, but the long capaign in which post-modernists chip away at the edges until they succeed in making the Mass more about “feeling good” vs obtaining the graces of the Eucharist. They are passive-aggressive and relentless. They probe and push and nudge. The tambourines and electric guitars slowly (but surely) make their way from the good ole 6pm “youth and teen” Mass, to the 10:30am and finally the 8:30am Mass. We folks who are predisposed to charitable tolerance are eventually overrun. By the time we get teed off about it, it’s already institutionalized.
I just don’t think the Vatican will button down the language to an extent that will turn the tide; any possible sliver of wiggle room will be justification for slowly “Protestantizing” the Mass-- not because it’s going to save more souls per se, but because it evokes the emotional high that the post-modernists seek. To them, if they are not being moved to tears or clapping, it’s just not worship.
God bless!
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FraterAndre
Guest
Yes, that’s true.
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aloysiusg
Guest
Why do people assume that those who use comtemporary music have some dastardly, nefarious scheme in place to bring down the liturgy? WHy can’t they just be trying to lead their congregation in prayer the way they feel best serves their congregation?
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reff
Guest
I honestly have no problem with having a band at mass, for those of you who are hispanic, such as myself, and have been to spanish mass, they almost always have a little band there, and the hymns they play definitely have a hispanic flavor to them. I personally love this, coming from the hispanic culture. It’s more of a cultural thing, and so is the “folk” mass, folk is an American culture, so I have no problem with these types of mass. And it attracts alot of youth, and that is always a good thing. The youth enjoy attending these masses.
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aloysiusg
Guest
I agree with reff, but will temper his line somewhat - I think MANY youth like that type of music and are so drawn to church that way. But there are many, and maybe even a growing number, who appreciate the more traditional, and so I hope each parish can, as best as their resources allow, provide a variety of liturgical music so as to satisfy the greatest percentage of parishoners so that they may all take part in the communal aspect of mass.
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Sarabande
Guest
My mother left Ilo-Ilo in 1968 and she had told me what kind of music they used for mass at least back then. Although I have attended mass at a parish here in the States for all Filipinos which used only cultural, traditional hymns in Tagalog (I don’t know the titles - I’m half Filipina and do not speak the language), as well as masses at house blessings. I will say at the house blessing masses I’ve attended, they always use a guitar, with which I had no problem. The music was cultural in nature and reverent, although there was no clapping and things of that sort. The masses were always reverent, albeit a tight squeeze since the mass would usually be done in the living room with 50+ people packed in.Yes, that’s true.
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FraterAndre
Guest
Yes. Here in the Philippines, the guitar is the most common musical instrument in the parishes.
now, they have drum sets, electric guitars, etc. and it’s like you’re attending a concert of a rock band rather of attending the Holy Mass.
I will be reporting this matter to the bishop of the Diocese and hopefuly to the Bishop’s Conference.
now, they have drum sets, electric guitars, etc. and it’s like you’re attending a concert of a rock band rather of attending the Holy Mass.
I will be reporting this matter to the bishop of the Diocese and hopefuly to the Bishop’s Conference.
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Jimsdun
Guest
Why do you think that only the “old people” would rather have the organ drone-on, and that all the younger folk would rather welcome the happy hippy mass? Sometimes the opposite is true.
I was not Catholic as a teenager. In the 1970s, when I was 16 years old I visited mass for the first time at a traditional parish, and I was fascinated and awed by it. But before I could think about becoming a Catholic, some “Jesus Freak” friends of mine managed to dissuade me from doing so, and dragged me into one of those hippy-type Jesus freak churches (which have since evolved into McChurches). I hated it and almost became an atheist after a few months.
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Jimsdun
Guest
What’s next if this kind of abuse continues. An altar call? Seeing the “Left Behind” book series displayed in the church’s bookshop?
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Sarabande
Guest
I would agree. It always seemed as if my friends/contemporaries and I were just totally ignored. We didn’t fit into the tight, little package of what young people and younger adults were “supposed” to want for mass. The excuse was that we were the exception to the rule, so we were ignored. How disconnecting is that?
When our diocese asked the younger Catholics to write to them about what we thought was needed in the Church, I actually did take the time to write. I was 23/24 at the time, was teaching music and served as the children’s music minister for the parish school and was able to see what these children were responding to. I also talked about what I and many of my contemporaries were looking for in a mass. Not until we got our new archbishop a couple of years later that things seemed to change for the better in terms of music liturgy. He basically cleaned house and it was great. Not perfect, but I totally prefer this Director of Liturgy for the archdiocese. We have many young adults and college students come to our masses at our parish… it doesn’t look like the exception to the rule.
Also, organs don’t drone unless you have someone up there not knowing what they’re doing. That can be the case for other instruments as well.
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jc-servant
Guest
Please confine your negative comments to something that you actually know for a fact instead of making negative generalizations about other churches.
I grew up in Baptist churches and have numerous relatives in that denomination currently. Not all Baptists are the same and none of the churches that I attended in various states had any clapping during the service. In fact, the loudest worship, with the most poorly dressed people (not poor, just inappropriately dressed), with the most children eating and drinking and playing with toys like they are at home and cell phones ringing (that people occasional answer and talk on) that I’ve ever seen are Catholic masses week after week and month after month and year after year. I would not extrapolate that to the entire church as an irreverent, rude bunch, so let’s not stereotype anyone else either.
There are non-Catholics and people investigating our faith on this board who could be chased away and turned off from the church by these types of negative and stereotypical remarks about their churches.
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peary
Guest
**Such a tradition of worship is quite common within certain Baptist and Evangelical traditions. Also, this worship tradition can be found in many Catholic African-American churches as well as Latin American churches. I think the priest is not supposed to be jumping around off the altar area according to the rubrics, but, hey, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do!
**
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Jimsdun
Guest
I spent the first 26 years of my life in “born-gaain” evangelical-type churches, and as a teenager I witnessed the paradigm shift when the Jesus Movement invaded the Evangelical churches and changed their culture forever. Some of these churches were so casual “come as you are” and taught easy-believism. You attend a church service, walk forward during an altar call and your saved for life. And btw, anyone and everyone can receive communion at those churches, Christian or not/baptized or not. What would happen if a lot of that culture creeps into the Catholic Church? You would probably have non-Catholics (and even unbaptized persons) receiving communion. And nobody ever goes to confession because they believe OSAS.
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dconklin
Guest
Here in Charlotte we have a Catholic parish that is predominately African-American. I have not been down to one of their masses but we have had their choir here at our parish. Their music was a lot like what I remember hearing in other Christian African-American churches I visited with my family as a kid. They did some of that ‘naughty’ clapping too. Why is it so bad to be happy in front of our God? Is it wrong to do sign-language at mass? The sign for alleluia sure looks happy. Is it wrong to call the holy mass a celebration?
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