Modern Genetics and Adam & Eve

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However, if having Catholic faith is intellectually untenable for me, it would be a probable recourse. The fact that even members of the clergy doubt or eschew doctrine is something I find deeply disturbing. I really have some thinking to do. 😦
Catholic faith is the only thing that is intellectually tenable for me. And no, I do not doubt any doctrine, and I do hope that I do not eschew doctrine either.
 
BTW Al/ Anastasia do you have any thoughts on whether the 50-100k year gap between anatomically modern humans evolving and behavioural modernity could suggest the emergence of the soul among humanity?
Yes, I think that is a fruitful avenue of research. Bishop Josef Zycinski (of Pope John Paul II’s former see) was a scientist and bishop who wrote God and Evolution, which I’m currently reviewing for a journal. He thinks both anatomical and behavioural emergence are crucial factors in the emergence of the soul, or ā€œsoulishnessā€ as other theologians express it. This would include the gradual emergence of the hominid population into full moral and spiritual awareness.

StAnastasia
 
Essential reading for evo supporters.

The Evolutionary Accessibility of New Enzyme Functions: A Case Study from the Biotin Pathway

…This leads Koonin and Wolf
to reject convergent evolution (extensive similarity appearing
by evolution from dissimilar starting points) as implausible.
But from this they conclude that homology, while not
formally proven by similarity, is nonetheless overwhelmingly
supported in cases where chance convergence is implausible.
The problem with this is that all non-chance alternatives
must be considered once chance is ruled out. Yet Koonin and
Wolf consider only one of these alternatives—the standard
Darwinian one.
We agree with their rejection of chance, but we argue here
that the Darwinian explanation also appears to be inadequate.
Its deficiencies become evident when the focus moves from
similarities to dissimilarities, and in particular to functionally
important dissimilarities—to innovations. The extent to which
Darwinian evolution can explain enzymatic innovation seems,
on careful inspection, to be very limited. Large-scale innovations
that result in new protein folds appear to be well outside
its range [5]. This paper argues that at least some small-scale
innovations may also be beyond its reach. If studies of this
kind continue to imply that this is typical rather than exceptional,
then answers to the most interesting origins questions
will probably remain elusive until the full range of explanatory
alternatives is considered.

When Theory and Experiment Collide

…As other scientists have found with other enzymes, it turned out not to be a snap. The technical details are reported in a paper just published in BIO-Complexity. [2] Here we’ll keep it simple.
Based on our experimental observations and on calculations we made using a published population model [3], we estimated that Darwin’s mechanism would need a truly staggering amount of time—a trillion trillion years or more—to accomplish the seemingly subtle change in enzyme function that we studied.
Now, if I were a Darwinist a result like this would bother me. I’m sure some of my fellow Darwinists would try to dismiss it as irrelevant… but that would bother me all the more.
The excuse for shrugging it off would, I expect, be that the transition we examined isn’t actually one that anyone thinks occurred in the history of life. That’s true, but it badly misses the point. As Ann and I made clear in the paper, our aim wasn’t to replicate a historical transition, but rather to identify what ought to be a relatively easy transition and find out how hard or easy it really is. We put it this way in the paper [2]:
Whether or not a particular conversion ever occurred as a paralogous innovation (or the direction in which it occurred if it did) is not the point of interest here. Rather, the point is to identify the kind of functional innovation that ought to be among the most feasible …] and then to assess how feasible this innovation is.
So, if I had a Darwinist alter ego, here’s the problem he’d be facing right now. To dismiss our study as irrelevant, he’d have to say (in effect) that he sees no inconsistency between these two assessments of the power of Darwin’s mechanism:
http://biologicinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/transitions.jpg
But that’s not an easy thing to say with a straight face, is it?
Having always believed the bottom picture to be correct, my alter ego would be very reluctant to reject it. And yet he wouldn’t be able to deny the obvious. There is in fact a jaw-dropping, ludicrous, even grotesque inconsistency between the top picture and the bottom picture. They can’t possibly both be true. But that realization, of course, forces an uncomfortable decision.
And here I must confess to feeling more than a little sympathy for my alter ego. I think it’s because of what we have in common.
He loves science.
So do I.
He loves stories.
So do I.
He sees a role for stories in framing scientific ideas.
So do I.
And he has said to himself, ā€œThe progress of science has invalidated my alter ego’s favorite story.ā€
So have I.
 
The fact that even members of the clergy doubt or eschew doctrine is something I find deeply disturbing. I really have some thinking to do. 😦
Fortunately that is not my experience. I suppose some priests abandon the faith, but not in our parish.
 
No - I said that if it is unique human DNA it has a soul.
The tumour is genetically unique.

Chi JG, Lee YS, Park YS, Chang KY (July 1984). ā€œFetus-in-fetu: report of a caseā€. American Journal of Clinical Pathology 82 (1): 115–9. PMID 6540049.

Sergi C, Ehemann V, Beedgen B, Linderkamp O, Otto HF (1999). ā€œHuge fetal sacrococcygeal teratoma with a completely formed eye and intratumoral DNA ploidy heterogeneityā€. Pediatric and Developmental Pathology : the Official Journal of the Society for Pediatric Pathology and the Paediatric Pathology Society 2 (1): 50–7. PMID 9841706.

Kuno N, Kadomatsu K, Nakamura M, Miwa-Fukuchi T, Hirabayashi N, Ishizuka T (January 2004). ā€œMature ovarian cystic teratoma with a highly differentiated homunculus: a case reportā€. Birth Defects Research. Part a, Clinical and Molecular Teratology 70 (1): 40–6. doi:10.1002/bdra.10133. PMID 14745894.

Arlikar JD, Mane SB, Dhende NP, Sanghavi Y, Valand AG, Butale PR (March 2009). ā€œFetus in fetu: two case reports and review of literatureā€. Pediatric Surgery International 25 (3): 289–92. doi:10.1007/s00383-009-2328-8. PMID 19184054.

ā€œTumor in baby’s brain contained tiny footā€. msnbc.msn.com. December 18, 2008. Retrieved 2008-12-19.
 
The tumour is genetically unique.

Chi JG, Lee YS, Park YS, Chang KY (July 1984). ā€œFetus-in-fetu: report of a caseā€. American Journal of Clinical Pathology 82 (1): 115–9. PMID 6540049.

Sergi C, Ehemann V, Beedgen B, Linderkamp O, Otto HF (1999). ā€œHuge fetal sacrococcygeal teratoma with a completely formed eye and intratumoral DNA ploidy heterogeneityā€. Pediatric and Developmental Pathology : the Official Journal of the Society for Pediatric Pathology and the Paediatric Pathology Society 2 (1): 50–7. PMID 9841706.

Kuno N, Kadomatsu K, Nakamura M, Miwa-Fukuchi T, Hirabayashi N, Ishizuka T (January 2004). ā€œMature ovarian cystic teratoma with a highly differentiated homunculus: a case reportā€. Birth Defects Research. Part a, Clinical and Molecular Teratology 70 (1): 40–6. doi:10.1002/bdra.10133. PMID 14745894.

Arlikar JD, Mane SB, Dhende NP, Sanghavi Y, Valand AG, Butale PR (March 2009). ā€œFetus in fetu: two case reports and review of literatureā€. Pediatric Surgery International 25 (3): 289–92. doi:10.1007/s00383-009-2328-8. PMID 19184054.

ā€œTumor in baby’s brain contained tiny footā€. msnbc.msn.com. December 18, 2008. Retrieved 2008-12-19.
So let me understand - a tumour found in a human had other human features. (this is itself is very interesting with respect to design). This is your argument?
 
So let me understand - a tumour found in a human had other human features. (this is itself is very interesting with respect to design). This is your argument?
Identical twins are genetically identical as far as I am aware either (except for mutations during fetus development) or epigenetic modification or phenotype expression due to environmental factors.

As I said before, people want to extend ā€˜soul’ to only living organisms that look human to them - rather than any underlying genetic/biological basis.
 
Identical twins are genetically identical as far as I am aware either (except for mutations during fetus development) or epigenetic modification or phenotype expression due to environmental factors.

As I said before, people want to extend ā€˜soul’ to only living organisms that look human to them - rather than any underlying genetic/biological basis.
Check it out, they are not genetically identical.
 
So let me understand - a tumour found in a human had other human features. (this is itself is very interesting with respect to design). This is your argument?
Twins are conceived. One develops normally; the other becomes a cancerous tumor lodged within the body of the first. If the tumor was a product of conception along with its twin, it has a soul, and it continues to have a soul even as a cancerous tumor that must be surgically removed from the body its twin.

StAnastasia
 
Yes, I think that is a fruitful avenue of research. Bishop Josef Zycinski (of Pope John Paul II’s former see) was a scientist and bishop who wrote God and Evolution, which I’m currently reviewing for a journal. He thinks both anatomical and behavioural emergence are crucial factors in the emergence of the soul, or ā€œsoulishnessā€ as other theologians express it. This would include the gradual emergence of the hominid population into full moral and spiritual awareness.

StAnastasia
I think so too that this research is fruitful. Artistic expression might be another clue – cave paitings started to emerge about 35,000 years ago, if I am not mistaken.
 
Essential reading for evo supporters.

The Evolutionary Accessibility of New Enzyme Functions: A Case Study from the Biotin Pathway

…This leads Koonin and Wolf
to reject convergent evolution (extensive similarity appearing
by evolution from dissimilar starting points) as implausible.
But from this they conclude that homology, while not
formally proven by similarity, is nonetheless overwhelmingly
supported in cases where chance convergence is implausible.
The problem with this is that all non-chance alternatives
must be considered once chance is ruled out. Yet Koonin and
Wolf consider only one of these alternatives—the standard
Darwinian one.
We agree with their rejection of chance, but we argue here
that the Darwinian explanation also appears to be inadequate.
Its deficiencies become evident when the focus moves from
similarities to dissimilarities, and in particular to functionally
important dissimilarities—to innovations. The extent to which
Darwinian evolution can explain enzymatic innovation seems,
on careful inspection, to be very limited. Large-scale innovations
that result in new protein folds appear to be well outside
its range [5]. This paper argues that at least some small-scale
innovations may also be beyond its reach. If studies of this
kind continue to imply that this is typical rather than exceptional,
then answers to the most interesting origins questions
will probably remain elusive until the full range of explanatory
alternatives is considered.
This looks impressive until you discover that the Biologic Institute is ID driven and that the journal Bio-Complexity has ID members on its editorial board. No, thank you. Give me a real peer-reviewed journal.
 
I get the impression that individuals believe that soul generation is a strictly bio-mechanical process related to DNA. Does then living tissue have a soul? If I give blood, does part of my soul get transferred? However, it’s my understanding the soul is an intrinsic nature (an aspect) of the entire organism, not its parts. A soul is the immaterial essence of a person. Tumours are simply clusters of DNA damaged cells. I would think God, as the source of souls, would know who or what should be allocated a soul.
I would think anencephalic babies do not have souls, since they have no conscious existence at all - I think the soul is fundamentally linked to our consciousness, which is really what constitutes the Imagio Dei we share.
To me it seems like speciesm to think that souls are granted to us purely due to our human DNA.
The problem I have with this view is that is lends justification for abortions. The argument would be that if something has no consciousness, then it’s not fully a person and subject to discharge from the host body.
 
I get the impression that individuals believe that soul generation is a strictly bio-mechanical process related to DNA. Does then living tissue have a soul? If I give blood, does part of my soul get transferred? It’s my understanding the soul is an intrinsic nature (an aspect) of the entire organism, not its parts. A soul is the immaterial essence of a person. Tumours are simply clusters of DNA damaged cells. I would think God, as the source of souls, would know who or what should be allocated a soul.

The problem I have with this view is that is lends justification for abortions. The argument would be that if something has no consciousness, then it’s not fully a person and subject to discharge from the host body.
 
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