Modern Metaphysics and the Eucharist

[stjohnberchmans]

Does anyone here know if there are some metaphysicians who use modern metaphysics to explain or elaborate on the Eucharist.

I’m working on a paper about how four-dimensionalism can help us understand the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

 

[runningdude]

As far as I know, the Eucharist defies all natural or physical explanations.

The Eucharist is the substance of the glorified Body of Christ. Christ is consubstantial with the Father. The Father is outside all physical creation. Some physicists theorize there as many as eleven physical dimensions . Whether four or eleven, God exists outside of all of them!

Ergo, the Eucharist is a wholly miraculous substance that only appears as bread and wine so as to not wholly overwhelm our physical senses!

 

[Abba]

Does anyone here know if there are some metaphysicians who use modern metaphysics to explain or elaborate on the Eucharist.

I’m working on a paper about how four-dimensionalism can help us understand the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

I am not familiar with ‘modern metaphysics’ but, I researched a little and learned for one that there really is such a thing. Interests in philosophy change through time and it’s interesting to see the new direction and interests and the new vocabulary that is developing to go with it. I found an informative article on ‘four-dimensionalism’ but I still do not understand all the concepts. To be honest I am still trying to understand ‘extended objects’ which I would need to to grasp in order to understand the idea of ‘four-dimensionalism’. It’s interesting. Sorry, I could not be of help. I will keep up with the thread and hopefully learn the concepts. Perhaps, you can explain it a little.

“Four dimensionalism, as it will be understood in this article, is a view about the
ontological status of non-present objects. Presentists say that only present objects exist. There
are no dinosaurs, though there were such things; there are no cities on Mars, though perhaps
there will be such things.
1
Four-dimensionalists, on the other hand, say that there are past or
future objects (or both); and in saying this, they mean to put such things ontologically on a par
with present objects. According to the four-dimensionalist, non-present objects are like spatially
distant objects: they exist, just not here, where we are.” nd.edu/~mrea/papers/Four%20Dimensionalism.pdf

Newton’s Second Law for an Extended Object:
hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Mechanics/n2ext.html

Metaphysics and the Eucharist in the early Leibnitz:

jstor.org/pss/40694214

 

[Perplexity]

Does anyone here know if there are some metaphysicians who use modern metaphysics to explain or elaborate on the Eucharist.

I’m working on a paper about how four-dimensionalism can help us understand the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

The only time I’ve seen something like this is in John Haldane’s article in The Blackwell Guide to Metaphysics. Even here he didn’t really say anything that hasn’t already been said.

Four-dimensionalism would be interesting…idk though that gets really tricky. Never looked at this issue from that perspective. For instance, I was always taught during the mass the congregation becomes present at the sacrifice enacted in 30 some CE. On b-theory that has weird results though…two time-slices overlap.

 

[Abba]

The only time I’ve seen something like this is in John Haldane’s article in The Blackwell Guide to Metaphysics. Even here he didn’t really say anything that hasn’t already been said.

Four-dimensionalism would be interesting…idk though that gets really tricky. Never looked at this issue from that perspective. For instance, I was always taught during the mass the congregation becomes present at the sacrifice enacted in 30 some CE. On b-theory that has weird results though…two time-slices overlap.

Perplexity, thank you for citing that book. I noticed it is recommended by Jaegwon Kim, I have met him on several occasions and if he recommends it - it has to be good. Kind of pricey though - it’s on my list. I spent the morning learning about Four-dimensionalism and the A and B theory. Although I still want to review and my obligations are calling now (I have to go make some American dollars to pay my American bills), it seems to me that you are correct there would be a problem with the b-theory. Although, I have to go back and re-read that paper I quoted, the kid is saying that there is no argument presented to the four-D by the a and b theories.

Yeah, it seems that the current interests in philosophy has to do with time, dimensions and verses. Philosophers are a product of their time and the culture and society really influences their concerns. I found some nice videos and articles on time during my little research here; I’ll start a thread and post the links.

---

I find it super interesting that Leibnitz thought to reunite the Catholics and Protestants by demonstrating a logical and rational explanation for transubstantiation. Now, that the interest in philosophy seems to be focused in time perhaps, some advancement can be made. jstor.org/pss/40694214

 

[Just_Lurking]

Here is a website that might be of interest.

 

[Acapiteadcalcem]

Does anyone here know if there are some metaphysicians who use modern metaphysics to explain or elaborate on the Eucharist.

I’m working on a paper about how four-dimensionalism can help us understand the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

You may find “Eucharistic presence: a study in the theology of disclosure” by Fr Robert Sokolowski useful.

Fr Sokolowski approaches the Eucharist from a phenomenological point of view (and in a very readable way) but draws on a metaphysical foundation.

Good luck.

 

[stjohnberchmans]

thanks for all the help guys. for those of you who are inclined to deny a B-theory conception of the Eucharist, what is your reasoning behind that?

Thanks

 

[Verbum_Caro]

thanks for all the help guys. for those of you who are inclined to deny a B-theory conception of the Eucharist, what is your reasoning behind that?

Thanks

Could you elaborate on what a B-Theory conception of the Eucharist would look like first?

Thanks
VC

 

[levinas12]

You may find “Eucharistic presence: a study in the theology of disclosure” by Fr Robert Sokolowski useful.

Fr Sokolowski approaches the Eucharist from a phenomenological point of view (and in a very readable way) but draws on a metaphysical foundation.

Good luck.

An excellent recommendation indeed.

The Eucharist is disclosure of a Person albeit a Divine Person. Some of our understanding of the Eucharist derives from our everyday experience how a person, as opposed, let’s say, how a rock, is disclosed. For more on “person disclosure”, see Sokolowski’s Phenomenology of the Human Person. Also, see Robert Spaemann.