Modern Theology

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NoelFitz said:
I am interested in Scripture and at a lecture some time ago it was stated that those interested in the Bible know little theology and vice versa. Arising out of lecture I started to read modern theology. But I was very disappointed.

To me theology, the Science of God, is about the reality God and is deductive.
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That may well be appropriate for some types of theology: Dogmatic, for instance. It’s much less applicable to Moral theology, because that gets round to dealing with human beings; & humans are a very awkward lot 🙂 - it’s possible to be much tidier with (say) the attributes of God or the consequences of transubstantiation than with the niceties of human conduct, because humans are so very varied: nuns & children can’t be treated in the same way - even though the principles on which the MT is based may be the same.​

And theologians fall into different schools - it’s useless to treat St. Augustine as a Schoolman, because his way of theologising is not the same as that of Schoolmen such as Aquinas or Scotus. And even those two differ - Aquinas is a Realist, Scotus a Nominalist. Theology is hugely varied - some find variety disturbing or difficult; others find it stimulating, exciting. From some POVs its sheer wealth is a sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit in His world.

To understand modern theology, we have to avoid - so far is possible for us - unrealistic assumptions about what preceded it. Including the idea that “in the past” everything was as it should be, whereas “now”, everything is horrid. Every Saint & Doctor was modern once - Augustine & Aquinas were controversial in their day. New things often are - in theology & the Church as in other things.
Modern theology seems to be about experience and is inductive. “What do I feel about God?”
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The Bible is about experience. It wasn’t composed at a distance from it, or without it. God cannot be known, unless He is experienced by us. One commentary has the title “Wrestling with Romans” - Romans challenges the reader; it is not abstract, but very personal. God was not the author of Scripture for angels, but for men.​

There is - or there can be - a difference of “mental atmosphere”, between a 1950s manual of dogmatics & a lot of modern theology. The conclusions depend on the questions asked - IOW, on the method adopted. Biblical theology does not allow for the same degree of certainty as Ludwig Ott’s manual (often named on the forums), because it works with historical & literary & archaeological data - that kind of “manualistic” dogmatics does not. Their methods are different. Bultmann & Aquinas both wrote commentaries on the gospel of John - but they lived centuries apart, so their backgrounds differ significantly, so they differ in approach & many other ways.

Reading theology is much like any other activity - some people can’t stand scientifiction, some love it. Just as some read novels, but never poetry or biography. Some people think reading Lewis or Tolkien is childish.

So here: some people will do almost anything to be sure of reading everything by St. Thomas - others prefer something less abstract, so they read a commentary on Romans; Barth’s, maybe. Others prefer Newman - whose works display the very self-awareness you mention.
Thus traditional theology is objective, while modern theology is subjective.

What do you think?

What modern theologian is faithful to the tradition of Catholicism and is also open to our current concerns?
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Gottle of Geer

Thank you so much for an inspiring and and encouraging post.

Recently dogmatic theology seems to have changed its name to systematic. I would have thought all theologians are dogmatic. Some theologians are moral theologians, are the others immoral?

You mention Ott. His book was translated into English by Fr Bastible, whose niece was a neighbor of mine when I was young and now lives near me. I like to read Ott when I want to know what the Church teaches. However it is amazing how things have changed during my life

You mention Newman. I am a fan of his. Every year in the Newman Society of Ireland we study a book of his. Last year it was Loss and Gain, which was a relief from the previous book The Grammar of Assent.

I was a scientist before I retired, so I think I prefer the older books which were more logical and scientific.

From your post I see you imply there is room for all in the Church. In fact I think I will stick with Scripture for the most part.

There does not seem to be any book, simply written that will explain all.
 
First, thank you Michael (aka Gottle of Geer) for your post. I find whatever you write both to the point and to the point and often I feel that I am truly getting something for nothing.

I would also like to thank Contarini for his list of theologians. I have been studying the works of the Cathoic theologians you listed for a very long time. I would add two names which I hope you will agree with me. The first name is Roman Guardini who was a great influence on both Pope Benedict and Urs von Balthasar. The other name is Pope John Paul II. People forget he was a profound moral theologian as a priest.

I find it interesting and I think it should be noted that the Catholic theologians you listed along with Romano Guardini and Pope John Paul are closely connected with the revival of Thomism that took place in the 20th century.

I think I would fall under the category, mentioned by Michael, that the sheer wealth of theological thought available to us is a sign of the Holy Spirit is quite active amound and within the Church.

However, Contarini, in a way I wish you hadn’t included the writings of Orthodox theologians because it makes me all too aware of just how ignorant I am of Orthodox theology and considering what Pope John Paul II had said and written about the need of the West to study and understand the East perhaps this ignorance is inexcusable.

And there is one more name I would add to your fine list that of Jaroslav Pelikan.

Again forgive me for being a bit presumptious and adding to you list.
 
Tome, Michael and all who have contributed here.

Many thanks for your interest in this thread.

Modern Theology must be important.

But is it woth while spending the limited time one has on it? How should one focus to get most benefit? These are my concerns and I welcome the replies we have had.

For the autumn (fall) and winter I hope to do a course. Should it be in theology or scripture?

Some time ago I drew up a list of recent Catholic thinkers and other information to help me decide whom I shoud study. It may help others here and supplement the discussion so far. It is mainly based on Wikipedia. If there are omissions or major errors please let me know.

I am finding this thread very helpful, as all contruibutors are positive and helpful. So once again thanks to all of you and Catholic Answere.
Modern Catholic Scholars,Theologians, Philosophers, Exegetes

Adam, Karl 1966 Priest Anti-Nazi, final post Tübingen; Tertullian, Church
Blondel, Maurice 1949 Lay Involved with Modernist crisis; influential in the Nouvelle Théologie movement
Bouyer, Louis 2004 Lay Lutheran minister became Catrholic, contributed to Vat II; International Theological Commission, Communio
Brown, Raymond 1998 Priest Johannine Community, life of Jesus
Chenu, Marie-Dominique 1990 OP Historical method, concilium, Aquinas, Peritus, Gaudium et Spes
Collins, John - Lay Irish (UCD), was at the University of Chicago now at Yale Divinity School since 2000; OT
Congar, Yves 1995 OP Church and ecumenism, cardinal
Daniélou, Jean 1974 SJ Professor of Early Christian History at the Institut Catholique de Paris, cardinal, patristics
de Certeau, Michel 1986 SJ Historian of early modern religion
de Lubac, Henri 1991 SJ Cardinal, Origen, saddened by progressives after Vat II; nuptial theology, Mater Dei
Dupuis, Jacques 2004 SJ Origen, Hinduism
Ernst, Cornelius - OP Thomist, Fergus Kerr was his student
Finnis, John - Lay Oxford & Notre Dame; philosophy of law, teaching jurisprudence, political theory, and constitutional law
Fitzmyer, Joseph - SJ Scripture, theology, christology, dead sea scrolls
Gallardetz, Richard - Lay Ecclesiology and theology of ministry
Gilson, Etienne 1978 Lay French Thomistic philosopher and historian of philosophy
Giussani, Luigi 2005 Priest Education, Eastern Christian Theology and American Protestantism, “Communion & Liberation”
Grisez, Germain - Lay prominent and influential Catholic moral theologian, critic of proportionalism
Guardini, Romano 1968 Priest Bonaventure, Anti-Nazi, Philosophy of Religion
Gutierrrez, Gustavo - OP Liberation Theology
Haldane, John - Lay St. Andrews, ethics, philosophy
Johnson, Luke Timothy - Lay New Testament and Christian Origins, Luke-Acts, the Pastoral Letters, and the Letter of James; critic of Jesus Seminar
Kasper , Walter - Priest Cardinal, President of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, Liberal, ecumenism
Kenny, Anthony - Lay Ex-priest, Master of Balliol, analytical thomism, the philosophy of mind, Wittgenstein and the philosophy of religion
Kerr, Fergus - OP Teaches in Blackfriars Hall (Oxford) & Edinburgh, Aquinas, Wittgenstein, Ed. “New Blackfriars”
Kreeft, Peter - Lay Thomism, traditional Catholic, academic and popular writer, Boston College
Küng, Hans - Priest Peritus at Vat II, rejected papal infallibility
Lash, Nicholas - Lay Ex-priest, professor in Cambridge; influenced by Rahner, Barth, Aquinas and Wittgenstein
Lonergan, Bernard 1984 SJ Philosopher-theologian in Thomistic tradition and economist. Generalized Empirical Method (GEM).
Marcel, Gabriel 1973 Lay Christian existentialist, ex-atheist
Maréchal. Joseph - SJ Attempted to merge Aquinas and Kant
Marion, Jean-Luc - Lay Descartes, Heidegger, Husserl; postmodern theology
Maritain, Jacques 1972 Lay Revival of Thomism; a prominent drafter of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, convert
May, William Lay JPII institute; bioethics, Catholic sexual ethics
McCabe, Herbert 2001 OP Aquinas, Wittgenstein, Blackfriars, Orthodox, but disagreed with Humanae Vitae
McInerney, Ralph - Lay co-publisher of ‘Crisis’ and a Professor of Philosophy at Notre Dame University
McIntyre, Alasdair - Lay Thomistic Aristotelianism, O’Brien Senior Research Professor of Philosophy at the University of Notre Dame
Metz, Johann-Baptiste - Priest One of the most influential post-Vatican II German theologians; Münster
Mitchell, Margaret - Lay Professor of New Testament and early Christian Literature in the Divinity School at the University of Chicago
Nichols, Aidan - OP Oxford, theology of Ratzinger, Hans Urs von Balthasar and Anglicanism
Rahner, Karl 1984 SJ One of the most influential Roman Catholic theologians of the 20th century; ecclesiology, Anonymous Christianity, experience
Ratzinger, Joseph - Priest Pope, a respected traditional Roman Catholic theologian and a prolific bestselling author
Romano Guardini 1968 Priest Bonaventure, Anti-Nazi, philosophy of religion
Schillebeeckx, Edward - OP Originally interested in Thomism, later exegesis; Concilium, Nouvelle Théologie, Nijmegan
Schussler Fiorenza, Elisabeth - Lay Feminist theologiasn, interested in biblical, theological, and feminist epistemology, hermeneutics and rhetoric; Harvard
Tracy, David - Priest Theology and pluralism; student of Lonergan, U of Chicago
von Balthasar, Hans Urs 1988 Priest Ex SJ, banned, nominated cardinal; Systematic theology (Trilogy), Barth, eclectic, influenced by Origen & de Lubac
von Hildebrand, Dietrich 1977 Lay Converted from Protestantism, taught philosophy in Fordham; anti-Nazi
von Hügel, Friedrich 1925 Lay Influential philosopher, non-academic
Wansbrough, Henry - OSB General Editor of the New Jerusalem Bible; member of PBC. He has written twenty books, Synoptic Gospels, etc.
Weinandy, Thomas - OFMC History of Christology, patristic, medieval and contemporary studies, history of trinitarian theology
Whitehead, Kenneth - Lay FCS, traditional Catholic
Wojtyla, Karol 2005 Priest Pope, philosopher, Theology of the Body

Communio Ratzinger, Balthasar, Kasper, de Lubac

Concilium Rahner, Congar, Schillibeeckx, Küng

Gaudium et Spes
Lumen Gentium
Dei Verbum
 
Badaliyyah said:
I am not really sure how well your contrast between “modern” and “traditional” holds up. I mean, you just made Thomas into a modernist since all concepts have their origins in experience in Aquinas. And one can take a quick look at the so-called 5-ways (proofs for the existence of God) and see that they all start in experience. Even what we have by way of revelation is only known analogically.
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I’m curious.
What are the 5-ways?
I first heard this term about Aq. within the last week and now I see it again.
God may be telling me something … I should probably get to know them.

michel
 
cazayoux said:
I’m curious.
What are the 5-ways?
I first heard this term about Aq. within the last week and now I see it again.
God may be telling me something … I should probably get to know them.

michel
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they are the 5 proof-ish like arguments that Thomas gives for the existence of God towards the beginning of the Summa.

salaam.
 
Theology is faith seeking understanding.
Faith is believing what God has revealed.
The fullness of Revelation is Jesus Christ.
In the Gospel He taught He revealed everything to His apostles
They handed down that Gospel as the Catholic Faith, which is the source of all saving truth and moral discipline.

The bible is basically salvation history.
 
dcdurel said:
Theology is faith seeking understanding.
Faith is believing what God has revealed.
The fullness of Revelation is Jesus Christ.
In the Gospel He taught He revealed everything to His apostles
They handed down that Gospel as the Catholic Faith, which is the source of all saving truth and moral discipline.

The bible is basically salvation history.
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Dcdurel

You give St Anselm’s definition of theology.

Two points . Is theology only about Jesus? Does the Father, the Holy Spirit or the Church (ecclesiology)? come in. Is there any theology after Christ’s life on earth - Origen, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Bellarmine, Rahner?
 
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