Modernism and the Modern Church

  • Thread starter Thread starter TheLittleWay86
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Precisely. Modernism has become a blanket term that can wind up meaning virtually anything. I understand true “modernism” to be a tendency to re-interpret traditional teachings of the Church based upon “modern” discoveries in the medical and scientific fields. Hence, an overt example of modernism is to suggest that Jesus didn’t multiply the fish and loaves but managed to persuade the gathered crowd to share all that they had, thereby feeding the multitudes. Or that Lazarus wasn’t actually dead but merely unconscious and Jesus roused him from this state. These are classic examples of modernism. To suggest that ecumenism is a form of modernism is not something that I think true, traditional theologians such as Pope Benedict would subscribe.
from Pascendi Domenici Gregis:
  1. It is one of the cleverest devices of the Modernists (as they are commonly and rightly called) to present their doctrines without order and systematic arrangement, in a scattered and disjointed manner, so as to make it appear as if their minds were in doubt or hesitation, whereas in reality they are quite fixed and steadfast. For this reason it will be of advantage, Venerable Brethren, to bring their teachings together here into one group, and to point out their interconnection, and thus to pass to an examination of the sources of the errors, and to prescribe remedies for averting the evil results.
  2. To proceed in an orderly manner in this somewhat abstruse subject, it must first of all be noted that the Modernist sustains and includes within himself a manifold personality; he is a philosopher, a believer, a theologian, an historian, a critic, an apologist, a reformer. These roles must be clearly distinguished one from another by all who would accurately understand their system and thoroughly grasp the principles and the outcome of their doctrines."
Pope St. Pius X clearly shows that the modernist, and modernism itself can and does morph itself in order to conceal it’s true desires. This is why, even in our enlightened 21st century, we are still battling these demons.

papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10pasce.htm
 
Precisely. Modernism has become a blanket term that can wind up meaning virtually anything. I understand true “modernism” to be a tendency to re-interpret traditional teachings of the Church based upon “modern” discoveries in the medical and scientific fields…
A portion of modernism is an attempt to redifine Catholic dogma in favor of the [pseudo] science of our day, but it goes much deeper than that.

The heresy was explained in great detail in Pascendi; therefore, anyone can find out what the error is, and how to spot it. The errors are deep and subtle, but they are understandable for anyone who takes the time and effort to do so. And taking the time and effort to do so is necessary in our day, since this error has spread throughout the Church like spiritual Aids. The only way to keep from embracing the damnable errors are to understand them.
 
Another point, which is not well known today, is that Pope St. Pius X attached an automatic excommunication to anyone who embraced the errors contained in pascendi, lamentaballi, or the replies of the Biblical Commission from his day.
Motu proprio

PRAESTANTIA SCRIPTURAE SACRAE

Monday, November 18, 1907

Motu proprio of Our Most Holy Lord Pius X., by Divine Providence Pope, on the decisions of the Pontifical Commission on the Bible and on the censures and penalties against those who neglect to observe the prescriptions against the errors of the Modernists: …

After mature examination and the most diligent deliberations the Pontifical Biblical Commission has happily given certain decisions of a very useful kind for the proper promotion and direction on safe lines of Biblical studies. But We observe that some persons, unduly prone to opinions and methods tainted by pernicious novelties and excessively devoted to the principle of false liberty, which is really immoderate license and in sacred studies proves itself to be a most insidious and a fruitful source of the worst evils against the purity of the faith, have not received and do not receive these decisions with the proper obedience.

Wherefore We find it necessary to declare and to expressly prescribe, and by this Our act We do declare and decree that all are bound in conscience to submit to the decisions of the Biblical Commission relating to doctrine, which have been given in the past and which shall be given in the future, in the same way as to the decrees of the Roman congregations approved by the Pontiff; nor can all those escape the note of disobedience or temerity, and consequently of grave sin, who in speech or writing contradict such decisions, and this besides the scandal they give and the other reasons for which they may be responsible before God for other temerities and errors which generally go with such contradictions.

Moreover, in order to check the daily increasing audacity of many Modernists who are endeavoring by all kinds of sophistry and devices to detract from the force and efficacy not only of the decree “Lamentabili Sane Exitu” (the so-called Syllabus), issued by Our order by the Holy Roman and Universal Inquisition on July 3 of the present year, but also of Our Encyclical letters “Pascendi Dominici Gregis” given on September 8 of this same year, We do by Our Apostolic Authority repeat and confirm both that decree of the Supreme Sacred Congregation and those encyclical letters of ours, adding the penalty of excommunication against their contradictors, and this We declare and decree that should anybody, which may God forbid, be so rash as to defend any one of the propositions, opinions or teachings condemned in these documents he falls, ipso facto, under the censure contained under the chapter “Docentes” of the constitution “Apostolicae Sedis,” which is the first among the excommunications Latae Sententiae, simply reserved to the Roman Pontiff. This excommunication is to be understood as salvis poenis, which may be incurred by those who have violated in any way the said documents, as propagators and defenders of heresies, when their propositions, opinions and teachings are heretical, as has happened more than once in the case of the adversaries of both these documents, especially when they advocate the errors of the Modernists that is, the synthesis of all heresies.

Wherefore We again and most earnestly exhort the Ordinaries of the dioceses and the heads of Religious Congregations to use the utmost vigilance over teachers, and first of all in the seminaries; and should they find any of them imbued with the errors of the Modernists and eager for what is new and noxious, or lacking in docility to the prescriptions of the Apostolic See, in whatsoever way published, let them absolutely forbid the teaching office to such; so, too, let them exclude from sacred orders those young men who give the very faintest reason for doubt that they favor condemned doctrines and pernicious novelties. We exhort them also to take diligent care to put an end to those books and other writings, now growing exceedingly numerous, which contain opinions or tendencies of the kind condemned in the encyclical letters and decree above mentioned; let them see to it that these publications are removed from Catholic publishing houses, and especially from the hands of students and the clergy. By doing this they will at the same time be promoting real and solid education, which should always be a subject of the greatest solicitude for those who exercise sacred authority.

All these things We will and order to be sanctioned and established by Our Apostolic Authority, aught to the contrary notwithstanding.

Given at Rome in Saint Peter’s, the 18th November, 1907, the fifth year of Our Pontificate.

Pius PP. X
 
But for a Catholic to claim that he is also a Calvinist THOUGHT IT CONTRADICTS Catholic doctrine, that is modernism at work.
Substitute “Calvinist” with “Protestant”, and you end up with something sounding remarkably similar to a certain group of schismatics on an island in Northern Europe. Is that modernist too? 😃

I think it’s just considered heresy to hold a heretical viewpoint. Whether or not that person believes he is a Catholic is irrelevant. Every heretic believed himself to be the true Catholic faith, but the Church and God will be the judge of that, not his misguided self. 🙂
 
MODERATOR NOTICE

If you label any Catholic, any part of Vatican II, any act by a pope or any person by name, you are out of compliance with the rules. Please be careful.

Thank You and have a Blessed Christmas
 
I only have a 3.048 meter pole.

Wait, some ultra-trads consider the Metric System to be Modernist. I guess I can’t use it. 😃
I had to take an oath against the metric system when I came to the USA. 😃

The problem now is that my metric units are all mixed up and I think in miles, meters, inches, and microns as the length shrinks. :o
 
I had to take an oath against the metric system when I came to the USA. 😃

The problem now is that my metric units are all mixed up and I think in miles, meters, inches, and microns as the length shrinks. :o
In the 80’s they tried to introduce the metric system to the U.S. (I guess it wasn’t enough to teach it in the science laboratories.) The way they did it, though, was to turn people off of it completely. For example, on an outfield wall in baseball, they would write 121.92 meters next to the 400 foot sign. Now who’s going to be sold the metric system like that?
 
Which of the tenets that describe modernism do you believe apply today?
Do you mean which erroneous positions are prevalent today? I mean there are many, but to list some

“The Church’s interpretation of the Sacred Books is by no means to be rejected; nevertheless, it is subject to the more accurate judgment and correction of the exegetes.”

“In proscribing errors, the Church cannot demand any internal assent from the faithful by which the judgments she issues are to be embraced.”

“In many narrations the Evangelists recorded, not so much things that are true, as things which, even though false, they judged to be more profitable for their readers.”

“The dogmas the Church holds out as revealed are not truths which have fallen from heaven. They are an interpretation of religious facts which the human mind has acquired by laborious effort.”

“The Resurrection of the Savior is not properly a fact of the historical order. It is a fact of merely the supernatural order (neither demonstrated nor demonstrable) which the Christian conscience gradually derived from other facts.”

Now I could go on but I am not sure what you are trying to say.
Or for that matter, how do you relate any of this to ecumenism in order to label it “modernism?”
Ha? I am not sure why many here are assuming that I am equating Ecumenism with Modernism. I was pointing out, rather extensively, that incorrect Ecumenical activity usually leads to and is based on Modernist ideas.

So what you are associating with me is something I did not say.
 
In the 80’s they tried to introduce the metric system to the U.S. (I guess it wasn’t enough to teach it in the science laboratories.) The way they did it, though, was to turn people off of it completely. For example, on an outfield wall in baseball, they would write 121.92 meters next to the 400 foot sign. Now who’s going to be sold the metric system like that?
What is baseball, is it similar to soccer? :D:D
 
Substitute “Calvinist” with “Protestant”, and you end up with something sounding remarkably similar to a certain group of schismatics on an island in Northern Europe. Is that modernist too? 😃

I think it’s just considered heresy to hold a heretical viewpoint. Whether or not that person believes he is a Catholic is irrelevant. Every heretic believed himself to be the true Catholic faith, but the Church and God will be the judge of that, not his misguided self. 🙂
I think the difference is that usually a heretic claims the church is wrong and that he is right on doctrine. So the church has to change or others must join him etc. Protestantism, Calvinism etc were therefore heresies.

But a person who takes Calvinism and says that it is as incomplete as Catholic doctrine and therefore someone can choose which one they like etc will be under the errors of Modernism.

So there in lies the distinction.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top