Modernism in a Nutshell

[DustinsDad]

…In discussing the same with protestants, I take the JPII and BXVI approach and focus on what we hold in common. It first confuses, then intrigues them to find out that what they had been told about the Catholic Church was mostly wrong. Then they start to wonder what the Truth is… No question it is more subtle and less gratifying. But coming from the lips of well formed catholics, it WORKS. I can’t disagree that we have a LOT of uninformed catholics. I’m working on it, but a little help would be nice!

Hey - I agree with this on the individual/personal level, because sooner or later, you get to the meat and potatoes (at least you better!) - you get beyond the similarities and to the differences where the choice must be made to convert or not - the necessary call to conversion is made. The seed is cast.

This is a point that the “ecumenical movement” and “interreligious dialogue” never seems to get around to. Pope Benedict even pointed this out this during his visit here. Compared to yesteryear, it was pretty mild - but light years ahead of what we’ve had in the last few decades: …For Christians to accept this faulty line of reasoning would lead to the notion that there is little need to emphasize objective truth in the presentation of the Christian faith, for one need but follow his or her own conscience and choose a community that best suits his or her individual tastes. The result is seen in the continual proliferation of communities which often eschew institutional structures and minimize the importance of doctrinal content for Christian living.
Even within the ecumenical movement, Christians may be reluctant to assert the role of doctrine for fear that it would only exacerbate rather than heal the wounds of division. Yet a clear, convincing testimony to the salvation wrought for us in Christ Jesus has to be based upon the notion of normative apostolic teaching: a teaching which indeed underlies the inspired word of God and sustains the sacramental life of Christians today.
(Pope Benedict XVI, Ecumenical Meeting at St. Joseph’s Church, New York, 2008)

I don’t think folks realize just how bold this part of the speech was. (And after the earlier interreligous gift giving ceremony - I for one needed to hear this from the pope! I’ll take what I can get!!!) It’s a good sign. Call me naive, but let’s hope and pray this signifies a fundamental shift in the, eh, approach.

Why? Because it’s when the hierarchy starts talking about religions as a whole as being themselves “good” with many “sanctifying” elements and as something that God uses as a “means of Salvation” - then confusion starts to rule, religious indifferentism sets in, and the call to conversion becomes “something that was changed at VII” and the person issuing the call just one backward little voice (smacking a head with an ore or some such thing) that hasn’t caught up with the times.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[manualman]

"I don’t think folks realize just how bold this part of the speech was. (And after the earlier interreligous gift giving ceremony - I for one needed to hear this from the pope! I’ll take what I can get!!!) It’s a good sign. Call me naive, but let’s hope and pray this signifies a fundamental shift in the, eh, approach. "

This right here is the core of where we seem to disagree. You think the BXVI quote signifies a ‘shift’ in the approach. I think it was the REAL Vatican II approach that has simply been masked by the usurpers all this time. BXVI and JPII were THERE and helped write some the major VII documents. I trust their explanation of the council and I think the above quote is where they’ve been coming from all along.

Good discussing with you.

 

[Yours_Truly]

I just ran across this thread on modernism. Since the topic just came up in another thread, I thought I would bring it back to the top.