Modest swimwear as an example for my daughter

[Serap]

I’m not surprised, though a bit saddened, at some of the massively over the top posts in this thread and I’m looking at you former Catholic and you simple soul. The latter’s posts are more troubling to me since that poster seems to assume that she knows exactly what God wants as far as modesty goes despite him not whispering it in her ear, and we’re all wrong.

Would I want my daughter, 12-13 years from now (she’s 1) wearing ridiculously inappropriate swimwear? No. Would I allow her to wear tiny bikinis and all of that? Not a chance. But are there commercial one piece and two piece suits that cover up enough to be modest but feminine, practical and allow for tanning? Sure and the OP found a good one.

I don’t want my daughter, or my wife for that matter, to be objectified. And I don’t want them wearing something that shows a lack of respect for their bodies. But I also don’t want them to be wearing stuff that makes them feel like they need to be super covered lest they tempt men into sin. That’s a terrible mindset to have. We have these bodies as a gift from God. We’re supposed to keep them healthy and respect them, but we are also not to be ashamed of them nor are we supposed to be in constant worry that we’re going to make someone else sin unless we wear shapeless clothing.

Men are always going to look, no matter what you’re wearing. And that’s not because we’re all leering perverts or anything like that, but because we’re visual creatures, much moreso than women. Just stay away from thongs or anything else that blasts “NOTICE HOW LITTLE I’M WEARING” and you’re fine. Ladies, it’s up to us men to act like gentlemen and not dwell on lustful thoughts which are going to pop up no matter what you’re wearing.

I think of it as a partnership with God. Us women try our best to be modest and men try their best to be respectful of women. I love my new swimdresses and they MAY or MAY NOT spark lust in a man walking by, but my swimdresses are still very modest on the beach and they cover my body nicely in a feminine way.

I am not about to go and put on long skirts and long sleeved tops for swimming. It’s just not practical and my husband would laugh at me and tell me I look silly, b/c it’s just not my personality at all.

 

[PatriceA]

I think of it as a partnership with God. Us women try our best to be modest and men try their best to be respectful of women. I love my new swimdresses and they MAY or MAY NOT spark lust in a man walking by, but my swimdresses are still very modest on the beach and they cover my body nicely in a feminine way.

I am not about to go and put on long skirts and long sleeved tops for swimming. It’s just not practical and my husband would laugh at me and tell me I look silly, b/c it’s just not my personality at all.

And I don’t know about anyone else’s husband, but mine wants me to look a little bit cute, very feminine and, GASP, a little bit sexy from time to time. And I’m not talking just in the bedroom either.

 

[Serap]

And I don’t know about anyone else’s husband, but mine wants me to look a little bit cute, very feminine and, GASP, a little bit sexy from time to time. And I’m not talking just in the bedroom either.

My husband also likes me to look cute and feminine, but he’s not big on the sexy outfits in public. He doesn’t mind at home, but when we’re out, he likes me to dress modest, but feminine at the same time.

Some attractive women could wear a garbage bag out on the beach and men would still lust after her

 

[simple_soul]

I hope I didn’t leave you with the impression that I am trying to come up with excuses for not being modest. What I want you to understand is that modesty is not all about covering up your body. To draw an analogy from another Church teaching, I would say that modesty is sorta like the marital embrace. It is multi-faceted and you can’t separate some facets from is without frustrating the very nature of it. I can’t remember who, but it was a Saint or a priest, who said that modesty in speech and action is actually more important than dress.

*Dear rmbrulotte,

No you have not left me with an impression that you are trying to find excuses for not being modest. I can totally agree with the Saint or priest quote. But I do not believe we should just forget about how important our dress is and that our choice of dress should reflect our speech and actions. *

There are no hard and fast rules for modesty and the Church has not laid any down because it is very cultural. For our culture, if you want some rules, this link might help : sexrespect.com/modesty.html.

*This is what I believe confusses me. Do you know what the church does teach on modesty and how we should dress? this might help me understand better. *

No can’t judge what is modest by what others think. But, when I put something on, I ask myself if it is going to draw attention to me, certain parts of my body, enhance my femininity, (no, I don’t mean show off my chest,** but rather I ask “do I look like a woman”**) or potentially arouse the men I may interact with during the day. I try to draw attention to my face and head, (eyes are the “window to the soul”) by wearing a bit of makeup and fixing my hair, or maybe wearing a nice pair of earrings.

*What I ask myself is “Do I reflect the image of a women that God intended for a women to look?” Reguarless of of who’s attention I may be or may not be attracting.
*

When you say you wonder if one can be too modest, I wonder if you are dealing with some scrupulosity. I don’t mean to judge you, and please, don’t take that into offense, but I know plenty of people who have taken things in Church teaching to an extreme that is neither healthy or useful, but rather can be damaging to them, the people around them, and cuts them off from spiritually nourishing relationships with other very devout Catholics.

*No offense taken. I am not sure, I very well could be dealing with scrupulosity. All I know for sure is I am trying to understand exactly what Church teaching is and how I can adapt it into my life so that I can reflect it. I do not beleive trying to understand church teachings and God’s Truth should ever be considered extreme. I thought that this is what we are all called to do and that the salvation of our souls depended upon that.

 

[PatriceA]

My husband also likes me to look cute and feminine, but he’s not big on the sexy outfits in public. He doesn’t mind at home, but when we’re out, he likes me to dress modest, but feminine at the same time.

Some attractive women could wear a garbage bag out on the beach and men would still lust after her

I said a little bit sexy, just to clarifly. And my open toe sandals are sexy to him, just so you have an idea of where he’s coming from. He thought the pics in the OP were adorable by the way.

 

[simple_soul]

I’m not surprised, though a bit saddened, at some of the massively over the top posts in this thread and I’m looking at you former Catholic and you simple soul. The latter’s posts are more troubling to me since that poster seems to assume that she knows exactly what God wants as far as modesty goes despite him not whispering it in her ear, and we’re all wrong.

*Dear The Bucket,

I do not assume anything. I totally accept that I could be misunderstanding everything. This is why I am trying to understand these questions I have asked. *

 

[simple_soul]

Stop being passive aggressive in your judgements towards me. You already mentioned in the beginning that you thought my swimdress was immodest.

ENOUGH!

*I am not making any judgments on you. I just want to know what Truth is. *

 

[The_Bucket]

*Dear The Bucket,

I do not assume anything. I totally accept that I could be misunderstanding everything. This is why I am trying to understand these questions I have asked. *

One simple suggestion: Don’t over think it. Seriously. Religious contemplation is better spent on trying to do something impossible like understand the Holy Spirit. Contemplating THAT to grow more in awe of God is good. Spending your time contemplating what lengths you need to go to be modest on the beach is a waste.

Just go with your gut. Thongs, g-strings and other things that leave zero to the imagination and are worn to draw lustful attention? Yeah, that’s over the line. Standard one and two piece suits that are worn for comfort, for tanning and blend in with everyone else? That’s probably just fine.

I get that our culture is oversexed and so we all want to avoid just going along with the cultural flow. Trust me, I get that. But something like what the OP posted is modern and stylish enough to draw little attention, be comfortable and be modest. Stuff like “long swim skirts” or homemade bodysuits is going to draw negative attention, maybe not lustfully but it will still draw negative attention and lead to people outright dismissing the folks that wear such things as religious lunatics. And that is detrimental to the mission of bringing the word to everyone; yes, stand up on principle and be modest! But do it in a very subtle way, like the OP did, instead of loudly proclaiming it with weird things.

 

[Serap]

*I am not making any judgments on you. I just want to know what Truth is. *

I read some more of your posts and I do now believe that you are speaking from your heart.

It’s hard to know the entire truth b/c we don’t have God whispering in our ear telling us what is right and wrong. The bible can also be pretty vague in some of it’s teachings.

I believe that I am modest and set a good example for my daughter. I guess I just have to go with that or else I will fall into scupulousity also. (can I spell that??? :idea

Anyway, look into your consciousness and really examine it and you will get your answer. You do what YOU feel is right and God will see that you are acting in ernest to please Him.

 

[Serap]

I said a little bit sexy, just to clarifly. And my open toe sandals are sexy to him, just so you have an idea of where he’s coming from. He thought the pics in the OP were adorable by the way.

You show your toes in public??? :tsktsk:

npatrol:

 

[rmbrulotte]

*This is what I believe confusses me. Do you know what the church does teach on modesty and how we should dress? this might help me understand better. *

*What I ask myself is “Do I reflect the image of a women that God intended for a women to look?” Reguarless of of who’s attention I may be or may not be attracting.
*

*No offense taken. I am not sure, I very well could be dealing with scrupulosity. All I know for sure is I am trying to understand exactly what Church teaching is and how I can adapt it into my life so that I can reflect it. I do not beleive trying to understand church teachings and God’s Truth should ever be considered extreme. I thought that this is what we are all called to do and that the salvation of our souls depended upon that.
From the Catechism:

2521 Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.

2521 Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.
2522 Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

2523 There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body. It protests, for example, against the voyeuristic explorations of the human body in certain advertisements, or against the solicitations of certain media that go too far in the exhibition of intimate things. Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies.

2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.

2525 Christian purity requires a purification of the social climate. It requires of the communications media that their presentations show concern for respect and restraint. Purity of heart brings freedom from widespread eroticism and avoids entertainment inclined to voyeurism and illusion.

2526 So called moral permissiveness rests on an erroneous conception of human freedom; the necessary precondition for the development of true freedom is to let oneself be educated in the moral law. Those in charge of education can reasonably be expected to give young people instruction respectful of the truth, the qualities of the heart, and the moral and spiritual dignity of man.

Clear as mud, eh?

The Catechism is available online.

When I ask, “do I look like a woman?” I am most certainly asking myself if I look like a woman as God intended.

The Catholic Church is the Universal Church. There is room here for all sorts of cultures. Yes, if the culture contains aspects demeaning and degrading of women, we have to refuse participation in those aspects. 100 years ago it was immodest for women to play sports. 50 years ago, an assertive woman was most lilely considered immodest as well.

 

[The_Bucket]

As I wrote before, I’d never argue that you should all “go with the flow” of society, because we can all recognize that society is extremely oversexed and largely immodest. As long as you’re wearing something to cover the private areas, you’re not being scandalous according to the whims of today’s society. I agree that such a mindset is ridiculous.

But certainly things like tankinis or even two pieces that aren’t a thong and a bare covering up top are plenty modest and modern.

What I find really funny about these debates is that it’s always over feminine modesty and ensuring that men aren’t getting lustful when looking at them. I know men are far more visual than women, but men have worked outside barechested for quite a long time and no one has thought it odd. Sure, in the past it was symbolic of class in that men who worked without shirts tended to be poorer as they were doing hard labor, but in terms of modesty it was never really an issue. Again, ladies, men are going to look no matter what you wear. That’s not up to you, that’s up to us. What’s up to you is making sure you’re not advertising your sexuality. Advertising and embracing your FEMININITY is quite alright and modern, stylish and not grossly immodest swimsuits like thongs do just that.

 

[former_Catholic]

now that is really getting to the heart of the issue and the solution for everything! i needed your wisdom! going to get a sewing machine and some lessons for me and my 4 daughters!!! hugs of appreciation!

Sergers are quick and appealing, but they can’t sew everything. I would recommend a good reverse cycle machine; they can do everything (and sewing machine shops will teach you to use whatever machine you buy from them… and all of them have very good reconditioned used machines for anybody on a budget!). A good, well-constructed swimsuit is not difficult to make with a reverse cycle (stretch stitch) machine… check out KwikSew or StretchNSew patterns… both offer multi-sized master patterns for perfect fitting… so if you’re a bit taller or shorter, or wider here or narrower there, or more or less on top… it’s no problem whatsoever. If someone needs a little flounce of a skirt to hide a wider hipline… it’s no problem whatsoever. Growing daughters always have the “less on top, more on bottom” issue … it’s no problem whatsoever. If one daughter has to be pink! pink! pink! and the other has to be blue!blue! blue!.. it’s no problem whatsoever.

The most fabulous suit I ever made was for a long-waisted flat-chested dance instructor friend of mine who wanted to look like she walked off the beach at Monte Carlo and needed to cover an “emergency cesarean scar” (they hadn’t had time to do it by the usual “least obtrusive” manner). No problem sewing a one piece for the very longwaisted… she just needed 1 1/2 inch in length more than average. I designed a half circle matching sarong skirt on that one. She really did look like she stepped off the beach at Monte Carlo by the time I was done with her. For the “incognito European film star on vacation” look… you really need the (preferably dark) fine straw Italian portrait hat and the oversized sunglasses… and a good ankle bracelet.

Oh yes, and for starting out beginner sewing, and sewing with young children, a machine (like a Pfaff) that has got a speed reduction (sews like a snail) feature is extremely useful…
the very best first project is a “strip quilt” project like a “quilt in a day” project. Choose a few colors of cotton calico… tear strips… sew strips together with straight seams (teaches kids to sew simple straight seam)… cut into blocks, turn, sew the blocks together with simple straight seams… and even if beginner seams aren’t so strait to begin with, it is still an “instant success” project that will knock their socks off.
Oh yes… and teach them right from the beginning… a sewing machine is a machine… and so (as with any other machine shop tool) safety glasses are mandatory. No serious seamstress ever goes without her safety glasses… and especially working with sergers!
Hugs back to you and best of luck!
Oh yes… and one grammar school girl I introduced to sewing with 20 years ago… she ended up getting a university degree in textiles, going to New York, and working for a clothing designer.

 

[RachelKH]

where are you? can you be my new neighbor and bestest friend? lol – i need to really do this learning to sew thing.

 

[former_Catholic]

Again, ladies, men are going to look no matter what you wear. That’s not up to you, that’s up to us. What’s up to you is making sure you’re not advertising your sexuality. Advertising and embracing your FEMININITY is quite alright and modern, stylish and not grossly immodest swimsuits like thongs do just that.

He’s right, you know…
Darwin noticed and wrote about how all the guys on the good ship Beagle would absentmindedly caress the ship’s bells as they walked by… because they were round… and had a little pin pointing out right in the center… sigh…
they’d been out there on that ocean with all the guys just too long…

As for “advertising women’s sexuality” it’s a big oligopoly controlled by men that merchandizes the merde of the marketplace to women under the guise of “fashion” (what they choose to make available for sale in the marketplace) while they happily sit around the pool, drinking, oogling, exploiting women… and laughing all the way to the bank.
“Hey, what do you think of this one… let’s shorten all their shirts, lower all their jeans, and sell them thongs… *just wait till they bend over, this is great! *”
No woman should ever “follow” fashion… ever!
Women must be empowered to MAKE fashion.

Ha yes… and there’s a true story about the designer of the “bubble skirt” nearly gagging to death at some premier where he saw his oh-so-less-than-brilliant “fashion” on real live women with real live bodies… it looked oh so much better on paper…

 

[Serap]

He’s right, you know…
Darwin noticed and wrote about how all the guys on the good ship Beagle would absentmindedly caress the ship’s bells as they walked by… because they were round… and had a little pin pointing out right in the center… sigh…
they’d been out there on that ocean with all the guys just too long…

As for “advertising women’s sexuality” it’s a big oligopoly controlled by men that merchandizes the merde of the marketplace to women under the guise of “fashion” (what they choose to make available for sale in the marketplace) while they happily sit around the pool, drinking, oogling, exploiting women… and laughing all the way to the bank.
“Hey, what do you think of this one… let’s shorten all their shirts, lower all their jeans, and sell them thongs… *just wait till they bend over, this is great! *”
No woman should ever “follow” fashion… ever!
Women must be empowered to MAKE fashion.

Ha yes… and there’s a true story about the designer of the “bubble skirt” nearly gagging to death at some premier where he saw his oh-so-less-than-brilliant “fashion” on real live women with real live bodies… it looked oh so much better on paper…

I follow fashion, but choose not to follow fashions that are immodest. I wear fitted jeans, t-shirts, skirts, tops, sweaters and I also wear A-line dresses, empire dresses, cute frilly tops…you get the idea.

As long as my clothes are tastefully put together, I am being modest. There’s nothing wrong with following fashion b/c there are many modest choices out there.

Low waisted jeans are not necessarily immodest if they are a boot leg fit with a long top that doesn’t show off the belly button. I don’t have a problem with fashion b/c there are many beautiful clothes out there to choose from at any local mall or shopping outlet.

 

[former_Catholic]

where are you? can you be my new neighbor and bestest friend? lol – i need to really do this learning to sew thing.

Check your phone book for a shop that sells and seriously repairs sewing machines (not simply sends them somewhere else). They’ll be happy to demonstrate what’s new (it’s nice to dream, even if we can’t afford it) but tell them you’ve got young children, and so you are looking for a nice reliable affordable reverse cycle sews everything machine, maybe even a quality reconditioned used one.

They will demonstrate and show you how to safely test drive everything in the shop. Spend an afternoon. Spend a couple of afternoons visiting various shops and seriously considering machines… and all the salespeople everywhere will teach you all the basics…
Pick the best repair shop in town and hang out there long enough and you’ll eventually meet every “serious sewer” in town.

Likewise check your phone book for a fabric shop and/or “quilt shop” preferably locally owned (generally most knowledgeable staff) or a big box fabric store (generally much less knowledgeable staff). Most offer classes and workshops, some even for children. Hang out at a serious locally owned fabric shop and you’ll also meet every “serious sewer” in town. They will also have a book rack… with a bazillion ideas.
Likewise check your library… every library in town has a sewing section, and as quilting has become much more popular these days, their sewing sections have expanded!
Likewise… Pfaff, Bernina, Viking, Singer… they’ve all got websites with ideas…
Likewise the major big box fabric & craft stores have all got websites (JoAnn’s, Hancocks, etc.)
with ideas.
If you want to meet people at my own level of sewing… check the internet under “Costumer’s Manifesto”… but then I’ve been at this since dresses were required school attire, mini skirts (designed by men of course!) were all that was available in stores, I was a foot taller than everyone else in school with legs up to there and couldn’t find dresses long enough to cover my sorry butt.
I don’t despise all male designers… Christian Dior was certainly as great as Vionnet and Chanel… but then he was a licensed architect!

 

[former_Catholic]

I don’t have a problem with fashion b/c there are many beautiful clothes out there to choose from at any local mall or shopping outlet.

The last time I saw a plethora of truly beautiful clothes… truly beautiful well made clothes of excellent natural fabrics (wool, silk, long fiber cotton and linen)… was at Sak’s 5th Ave… 1972.

 

[Serap]

The last time I saw a plethora of truly beautiful clothes… truly beautiful well made clothes of excellent natural fabrics (wool, silk, long fiber cotton and linen)… was at Sak’s 5th Ave… 1972.

Yeah but I don’t have your talent. I usually donate my clothes a year after buying them anyway…

I’m a fashion DIVA

If I give you my size chart and favourite color and mailing address, would you make me something???

 

[former_Catholic]

The last person I turned down with that question was a personal friend and a professional dancer with a troupe out of L.A. The education of the next generation is one’s biggest opportunity to change the world, and I must get back to it.
Sorry. Blessings!

P.S.
If you are a fashion diva… my favorite designer of all time was Madeline Vionnet, the greatest master of bias draping who ever lived. You might care to check out her work sometime; it is in all the museums, and it doesn’t get any better than that.