Modest swimwear for women

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I just intended this thread to provide a link to some less revealing swimwear. However, I just have to point out that some men are turned on by pantyhose. Should I avoid wearing dresses/skirts? Some men are turned on by children. Should I hide my children in my house until they are 18? Etc etc. I’m not going out of my way to make others’ path to holiness more difficult, but every one needs to take responsibility for his own path to holiness, rather than asking others to constantly accommodate his weaknesses.
Like I said in the other swimsuit modesty thread, responses like this in particular seem to be for the sole purpose of justification. No one is taking away responsibility from men. What I (and others) are trying to do is remind EVERYONE that they have a responsibility to be modest and chaste.
Augusta Sans:
I just have to point out that some men are turned on by pantyhose. Should I avoid wearing dresses/skirts? …
Now, on another note…

How did you manage to connect pantyhose and dresses/skirts? I don’t see any reason why you would connect the two unless this somehow has something to do with panties being shown while you’re wearing a dress or skirt that would somehow easily reveal your undergarments. (Which, by the way, is not a good example of modesty)

Men having attractions to young children (pedophilia) also has nothing to do with the thread. I see no reason to bring this up unless your plan is to derail the thread.

Modesty is for the good of everyone. For you and for all. Often times when discussions of modesty are brought up people seem to forget that women/men dressing improperly can also have negative effects on people of the same gender. When a girl is showing off her bust and her round bottom in front of a bunch of insecure girls who lack confidence, what is she saying to those girls? Likewise, if a man is showing off his abs, pecs and what have you in front of other guys who might not be like that it often makes them uncomfortable too. It doesn’t really help that people with lustful eyes tend to compare the insecure people with the immodestly dressed. The insecure might then proceed to think that they must be like the immodest just so that they’ll be accepted, thus propagating and effectively perpetuating systemic immodesty in the community.

So you see, modesty isn’t just about men keeping their eyes off women for the sake of not being a pervert and vice versa. It’s about representing yourself as a child of God in front of others. Dressing in a way that really reflects on the holiness of God’s temple (your body) is a great example to be setting for others.
 
How did you manage to connect pantyhose and dresses/skirts? I don’t see any reason why you would connect the two unless this somehow has something to do with panties being shown while you’re wearing a dress or skirt that would somehow easily reveal your undergarments. (Which, by the way, is not a good example of modesty)
Just for clarification, “pantyhose” and “panties” are very different. Another common name for pantyhose are “nylons.” They cover the woman’s entire leg, and are usually worn as part of a dress up ensemble. So, yes, anyone can see a woman’s pantyhose, even if she has a knee or calf length skirt on.
 
Just for clarification, “pantyhose” and “panties” are very different. Another common name for pantyhose are “nylons.” They cover the woman’s entire leg, and are usually worn as part of a dress up ensemble. So, yes, anyone can see a woman’s pantyhose, even if she has a knee or calf length skirt on.
My bad. I thought the two terms were interchangeable. I’m not much of a pantyologist (if you will) 😛
 
I just intended this thread to provide a link to some less revealing swimwear. However, I just have to point out that some men are turned on by pantyhose. Should I avoid wearing dresses/skirts? Some men are turned on by children. Should I hide my children in my house until they are 18? Etc etc. I’m not going out of my way to make others’ path to holiness more difficult, but every one needs to take responsibility for his own path to holiness, rather than asking others to constantly accommodate his weaknesses.
Get used to it honey. There are many militant people on CAF that act like drill sargents pointing out the sins of others.

This is why I have almost left CAF a couple of times. You get tired of it after a while.

You were not meaning to derail this thread; you were just expressing your frustration at the attitudes of some of the more militant persons on CAF.
 
Augusta Sans,

I do understand what you mean. I think it is important that we talk about clear lines between what is fair to expect in modesty, and what may land on the eye of the beholder, so to speak.

I agree with Daegus’ first statement on men and women sharing a role in modesty, and protecting one another. It is important for us to be open to this dialogue, though, and to truly listen to each other. With properly formed consciences and humility enough to empathize, there is so much headway to be made.

Recently, my girlfriend and I went through a series of websites, looking for a modest suit.

We liked this top, and this bottom.

Just because the ideas that I am proposing may be novel and even radical to some does not invalidate them. To older generations, the things we wear now are absolutely scandalous, and it’s not just because they are old-fashioned. Custody of the eyes truly helps us understand when we see something that should offend us. This is not sexual deviants, or weirdos, but I am speaking from men striving for holiness: normal, healthy men.

I do understand that some people go on tirades and force their opinions, but I am merely meaning to open dialogue, and to help men and women to better love and serve one another through a better mutual understanding, and understanding of the teachings of Christ through His Church.

Pax,

+VNV+
 
Original Question:

Is there such a thing as modest swimwear? What is modest swimwear for a Catholic woman? How would you classify wearing a bikini in public? Sinful, an occasion to sin, or according to the wearer’s intentions?

My dear brothers and sisters in Christ, we must all strive to grow in holiness and learn to help each other grow in holiness – as siblings in Christ should do. And we must approach each other always in a spirit of charity, lest the devil infiltrate the very dialogue we are trying to use to help each other grow in holiness.

We have the obligation under God to help protect each other from the struggles each of us encounters. We must always take into account how everything we say and do will affect those around us.

My conclusion from talking to women and reading their writings is that most women’s biggest struggle is relational. Their greatest desire is to be loved, adored, cherished, desired, and united with someone. Because of this, as our sisters in Christ, men have the obligation to women to be respectful to a fault and be extremely diligent about how we represent our intentions. We must be very careful to avoid “playing games,” “leading women on,” and flrting without purpose. Often these behaviors are exhibited with disrespectful and sinful purposes in mind. Even when we truly like a woman and want to pursue things with her, we have to restrict our behaviors and speech that would suggest this because women’s imaginations, in their great desire to be loved and unified, will involuntarily take what men regard as the smallest little things and run wild with them. For most women, the greatest struggle is emotional chastity – even psychologically healthy, good Christian women who are striving for holiness. That doesn’t make women bad, crazy, or disordered, it makes them women. It doesn’t matter that most men don’t understand it, that it seems silly to most of us. The simple fact of that matter is that because that struggle exists for our sisters in Christ, men have the obligation to monitor and adjust their behavior and speech accordingly.

My conclusion from being a man and talking to men and reading their writings is that most men’s biggest struggle is physical. Even psychologically healthy, good Christian men, striving for holiness, priests, life-long super-Christians, married guys, virgins, daily mass-goers, and all-around “good guys.” The simple fact is, in the mind of a man, an image can become a sexual thought very, very quickly. I don’ t know the physiological explanation, I just know it is so. And it isn’t something we can just “turn off” or disregard as we feel like it. Hence the term “struggle.” That doesn’t make men animals, pigs, or dogs. It makes us men. It doesn’t matter that most women don’t understand it, and that it seems silly to most of them. The simple fact of the matter is that because that struggle exists for your brothers in Christ, women have the obligation to monitor and adjust their behaviors and speech accordingly. Behavior includes dress.

Before I proceed to answer the bathing suit question more directly, my position: Raised Catholic and well-catechized. Attended Catholic schools through high school. Succumbed to the culture and became sexually active and an on-again-off-again Catholic in my early twenties. Remained extremely promiscuous through my twenties and early thirties, became a “lukewarm” Catholic (the kind God will spit out of his mouth) in my late twenties and a non-Catholic in my early thirties. Around thirty-two, began a lengthy and intense rebirth which gave me a tremendous desire for true chastity and purity. Two years ago, at 34, got married to a godly Catholic woman.

So, I have been on both sides of this issue, having been raised with a good sense of right and wrong, then living many years of my life not wanting women to dress “modestly” and not being modest and respectful in my behavior toward women, all for my self-indulgent designs; now, trying to live in holiness and help my brothers and sisters move in that direction as well, despite the damage I’ve done to myself and women over the years.

Oops, I have to double-post because I’m too long-winded. Continued in the next post…
 
…continued from previous post…

The short answer to the bathing suit issue is that men ought to wear long, loose-fitting suit-shorts (as most men currently do), which don’t reveal pubic hair and butt cracks (having nothing to do with women’s chastity, just because it’s disgusting), as well as shirts that do not “draw attention” to their physiques (that is, are not skin-tight) and, at a minimum, cover their shoulders. Yes, I just said men should not go shirtless at the beach – precisely because there are some women who respond to physical appearance the way most men do. They are psychologically healthy women who happen to have a stronger reaction to physical stimuli than do most women, who can become sexually aroused and have lustful thoughts very quickly in reaction to seeing a guy with a “hot” body. And men must be respectful of that and act accordingly to not move them – knowingly or unknowingly, inadvertent or intentional – toward that occasion of sin.

The answer for women’s swimwear is a little more complicated, but in general the principle is the same. In a more perfect world, women would also wear shorts or a swim skirt that goes to the knees (thighs have a very powerful effect on a man’s imagination) and a top that is at least a little loose, not drawing attention to the breasts or revealing cleavage, and covering the shoulders (spaghetti straps do not cover the shoulders). I’ve seen some swim dresses or similar top and bottom combos which are very “modest” by contemporary standards (heck, dental floss is) and yet are very attractive. At the very minimum, due to cultural compromise, a mid-thigh swim short should be worn at all times. A sarong is a very nice touch, also, when out of the water – they are generally quite attractive (see-through sarongs don’t count) and classy.

I’ve never seen, nor can I imagine, a two-piece suit/bikini that I’ve considered appropriate. They are little more than colored underwear. In general, the one-piece suits I’ve seen are also not appropriate – they are skin-tight and/or simply reveal too much.

Here’s a little catch phrase to sum up what will often place a man in proximate occasion of sin: flesh and curves.

Yes, the exposed flesh of a woman is very stimulating to a man and can lead quickly to sexual temptation. Also, the shape of a woman is very stimulating to a man and can lead quickly to struggle.

I’m not advocating return to the burqa. Let’s be “reasonable.” Shoulders, exposed backs, breasts and cleavage, midrif, hips, thighs, all of these things can and will stimulate a healthy Christian man to sexual thought invountarily and rapidly (so can calves and arms but, again, let’s be “reasonable”). Ladies, as your brother in Christ who is striving for holiness and someone who wants to perceive you in the correct, respectful, dignified light, and not have images competing with my wife, I ask you to prayerfully consider the following set of guidelines when dressing:

-covered shoulders
-covered cleavage, breasts, midrif, thighs
-covered thighs to the bottom of the knees
-nothing stylistically that is designed to draw attention to yourself (loud colors, holes, tears, etc)
-“form-fitting” is ok. “Tight,” please no.

Please do not wear strapless or spaghetti-string dresses. I get sad every time I see the current fashion of strapless wedding dresses. That exposed top portion of the torso is difficult for most men, and you’re going to have that in your wedding pictures forever. In addition, for what you poor women have to pay for a wedding dress these days, you should be able to get something so beautiful that you don’t feel the need to reveal yourself in order to accentuate it. Please, save that beautiful portion of your body for your husband on your wedding night.

Please do not wear short shorts, tight shorts, or tight cut-off jean shorts.

Please do not wear a shirt that exposes your cleavage – it’s like an arrow pointing to your breasts.

Leggings are not pants.

Can’t be done, you say? As it happens, I’ve been blessed with a Godly wife who has a fantastic sense of style and looks very attractive when she leaves the house while meeting all of the guidelines I mentioned. The difference? If you happen to see her, she looks attraactive. She doesn’t wear clothes that say “look at me.” That is a good quideline for all women, though I know many women would ask, “what do you base that on?” My answer – find a guy striving for holiness whose opinion you trust, and ask him. “Does this make me look respectable or trampy?” If you don’t know a guy striving for holiness, ask any guy, “how does this make me look?” If he says, “hot,” or makes an engine-revving noise, don’t wear it. If he says things like, “lovely,” or “hey, that’s really pretty,” things that connote a more respect and dignity, you’re probably on the right track. “Is this considered too tight or acceptably form-fitting?” Again, please let your brother in Christ answer that question.

I know much of this is extremely violent to the modern Western female ear. I remind you, we are all beholden to each other. We can’t grow in holiness without helping each other. Your brothers in Christ ought to be asking you how they can protect your heart, emotions, and chastity and be modest in their behaviors, what is and is not acceptable based on how their behavior affects you.

Let us continue the healthy and open dialogue and not let the devil divide us with pettiness, anger, negativity, and passive-aggressiveness. Let’s continue to educate one another in love. Stay open, keep praying, and pursue Truth.
 
Final thoughts…

Men (and women) who are attracted to children are disordered. You do not have to take them into account when dressing . . . and you don’t have to cover your children.

Panty-hose are great. Please wear them with skirt that touches the bottom of your knees.
 
I’ve never seen, nor can I imagine, a two-piece suit/bikini that I’ve considered appropriate. They are little more than colored underwear. In general, the one-piece suits I’ve seen are also not appropriate – they are skin-tight and/or simply reveal too much.
You know, as a guy myself I really don’t get words like this.

Maybe it’s because I may have some sort of disorder but during my teenage years up till now in my twenties, I have hardly ever fantasized about any woman I have ever seen. Be she in a bikini, mini-skirt or shorts, the most I ever had was a very weak sexual reaction. I have a younger sister who goes out wearing sleeveless or sometimes dresses as a contemporary hipster. Inside the house, she only covers her top yet has no qualms in wearing mini shorts.

Does it bother me? Not so much as you would think.

Now before anyone thinks I’m either lying or have dead hormones, let me tell you: I have a lot of grave sexual sins in my closet.

It just so happens that they involve drawings instead of real people. Perhaps that’s just the freaky thing about me. I’m attracted to drawings of women yet don’t even glance at the real thing (be they dressed in shorts, bikini, burqa, skirt or whatever).

Perhaps it’s because I’m more of a face person than a body person. It doesn’t matter how you good your body is, if your face is not to my physical liking then you won’t be getting testosterone outta me. It’s like saying you got a good strong line but no lure to attract me, a whacked-out breed of geekfish. With that said, I guess I have to agree with those who say that if you have a pretty face, you will induce desire in anybody regardless of what you wear.

And if I’m to believe what my parents keep telling me, I guess that goes for me as well. And maybe perhaps, I have noticed a fair amount of girls finding me attractive even though I haven’t noticed them that much. (Hopelessly thick aren’t I?)

Now what am I really saying here?

The problem I have with the things you have said is that it attempts to paint something (be it a dress, a part of the body etc) as an object that universally induces lust in everyone. To take a bit of Kantianism, I would deem this your maxim.

Now what would happen if this maxim of yours really had a universal application? No man should have any logical contradiction to it right? In this case though, I could qualify as that contradiction.

I am a face person. Not a body person. For me, the body can only enhance the face. If you show me an image of a real woman with the face censored, my thinking process would be just as obscured and I would be silently confused, not caring about what she’s wearing. Give me an image where the woman’s head is off-frame and you’ll get worse. I am not fond of mixing something that I would normally associate with sexiness with something I would associate with the gory act of decapitation.
 
The best thing that I can say as a young lady in her early 20’s is that if I am embarrassed to wear it around my Dad, I will not wear it. So while I do wear a 2 piece I always put on a tunic over it–which is a type of dress for the beach. 🙂
 
Now, on another note…

How did you manage to connect pantyhose and dresses/skirts? I don’t see any reason why you would connect the two unless this somehow has something to do with panties being shown while you’re wearing a dress or skirt that would somehow easily reveal your undergarments. (Which, by the way, is not a good example of modesty)

Men having attractions to young children (pedophilia) also has nothing to do with the thread. I see no reason to bring this up unless your plan is to derail the thread.

Modesty is for the good of everyone. For you and for all. Often times when discussions of modesty are brought up people seem to forget that women/men dressing improperly can also have negative effects on people of the same gender. When a girl is showing off her bust and her round bottom in front of a bunch of insecure girls who lack confidence, what is she saying to those girls? Likewise, if a man is showing off his abs, pecs and what have you in front of other guys who might not be like that it often makes them uncomfortable too. It doesn’t really help that people with lustful eyes tend to compare the insecure people with the immodestly dressed. The insecure might then proceed to think that they must be like the immodest just so that they’ll be accepted, thus propagating and effectively perpetuating systemic immodesty in the community.

So you see, modesty isn’t just about men keeping their eyes off women for the sake of not being a pervert and vice versa. It’s about representing yourself as a child of God in front of others. Dressing in a way that really reflects on the holiness of God’s temple (your body) is a great example to be setting for others.
I think you have no idea what pantyhose are. They are basically sheer tights that many women wear under dresses/skirts for a more modest/professional look than bare legs.

Again, this thread was intended to be about fashion, not anyone’s personal opinions about what is/isn’t modest. Obviously, you are not qualified to talk fashion (and prefer to change the subject to morality.) I’m not interested in talking about morality on the internet, so I’m done with this line of the conversation. However, if you want to get back to fashion, I’m on board!
 
I think you have no idea what pantyhose are. They are basically sheer tights that many women wear under dresses/skirts for a more modest/professional look than bare legs.

Again, this thread was intended to be about fashion, not anyone’s personal opinions about what is/isn’t modest. Obviously, you are not qualified to talk fashion (and prefer to change the subject to morality.) I’m not interested in talking about morality on the internet, so I’m done with this line of the conversation. However, if you want to get back to fashion, I’m on board!
I admitted to my confusion about the pantyhose issue.

On another note, you raised a thread about modesty (or at least, modest swimwear) and I provided my opinion, that is all. If you aren’t interested in talking about morality, then don’t bring up the concept of modesty in regards to swimwear (or anything for that matter). Unless modesty somehow has nothing to do with morality… 🤷

Without morality there’s no point to modesty.

Anyways, I will disappear from this thread because it seems like I’m stirring up unwanted antipathy. 👋
 
"The short answer to the bathing suit issue is that men ought to wear long, loose-fitting suit-shorts (as most men currently do), which don’t reveal pubic hair and butt cracks (having nothing to do with women’s chastity, just because it’s disgusting), as well as shirts that do not “draw attention” to their physiques (that is, are not skin-tight) and, at a minimum, cover their shoulders. Yes, I just said men should not go shirtless at the beach – precisely because there are some women who respond to physical appearance the way most men do. They are psychologically healthy women who happen to have a stronger reaction to physical stimuli than do most women, who can become sexually aroused and have lustful thoughts very quickly in reaction to seeing a guy with a “hot” body. And men must be respectful of that and act accordingly to not move them – knowingly or unknowingly, inadvertent or intentional – toward that occasion of sin. "–PursuingTruth

THANK YOU!!!
 
The best thing that I can say as a young lady in her early 20’s is that if I am embarrassed to wear it around my Dad, I will not wear it. So while I do wear a 2 piece I always put on a tunic over it–which is a type of dress for the beach. 🙂
Brilliant!!!
 
Pursuing Truth:

Welcome to CAF and thank you for your well articulated insights into your beliefs in terms of modesty and modest dressing for men and women.

It’s nice to see a man address the fact that modesty pertains to both sexes equally.

Good post!!

I didn’t agree with everything you wrote, but I respected every word that you wrote b/c it was done with so much diplomacy.
 
Agusta Sans:

I want to show you a picture of my swim dress. Some would say that it is still too immodest, but I really like it. It is a lot more modest than the bikinis that I used to wear.

[IMAGE REMOVED]
 
Agusta Sans:

I want to show you a picture of my swim dress. Some would say that it is still too immodest, but I really like it. It is a lot more modest than the bikinis that I used to wear.
That is a positive step up from a bikini, for sure!

However, I think it shows just how far we are from what modesty is in our fashion world, because to a normal, healthy man, this is still a pretty sexy swim dress. Notice, even, the models expressions/poses. It is interesting how often the intent is conveyed by the attitude/personality in the advertisement.

So, while it is an improvement, and I applaud you for making a positive move, I would say that in charity and love for one’s brothers in Christ, even more of an effort could be made, even if it takes some time to get used to the idea/understand why.

I appreciate all of you ladies out there that are striving for holiness and trying to help us men along the way. You will be rewarded in Heaven!
 
That is a positive step up from a bikini, for sure!

However, I think it shows just how far we are from what modesty is in our fashion world, because to a normal, healthy man, this is still a pretty sexy swim dress. Notice, even, the models expressions/poses. It is interesting how often the intent is conveyed by the attitude/personality in the advertisement.

So, while it is an improvement, and I applaud you for making a positive move, I would say that in charity and love for one’s brothers in Christ, even more of an effort could be made, even if it takes some time to get used to the idea/understand why.

I appreciate all of you ladies out there that are striving for holiness and trying to help us men along the way. You will be rewarded in Heaven!
The moderator removed the picture. I didn’t think it was a big deal. I posted that same picture 6 months ago and it wasn’t an issue.🤷

I’m striving for holiness by changing the way I dress on the beach and to set a good example for my daughter. Thanks very much for your honest feedback.
 
I think that if a person is at the beach or a public swim place then they ought to be prepared to see body parts that they might find attractive. Men or women should keep custody of their own eyes and mind or else avoid the place altogether.
 
So often the “modesty” and “chastity” conversations tend to devolve into what women should and shouldn’t wear. Can I get some concrete ideas from women on what men need to be doing/saying – or not doing/saying – to be more “modest” toward women? Or is that a topic for another thread?
 
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