Modest Swimwear

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on_the_hill said:
I think it kind of circles back to a variation of “beauty is in the eye of the beholder.” How complicit is Person A with regard to Person B’s impure thoughts? Whether Person A wears a bikini or a full body bathrobe, Person B may or may not have impure thoughts.

How can one be not complicit with what goes on in another’s head?
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That was adressed some pages back.

If person B dresses modestly, and still person A has impure thoughts, is person B fault. But, If person A is dressing immodestly, is person A’s fault too.
 
thewanderer said:
I don’t know if this has been addressed (haven’t finished reading the thread) but it didn’t sound to me as though people were attacking the first swimsuit because of its coverage, but rather because they thought it was ugly. They proceeded to try and offer alternatives to the OP that fit her particular standards of coverage in a swimsuit. There is nothing wrong with believing a particular article of clothing is ugly and just because you find a particular swimsuit with good coverage ugly does not mean you are criticizing the swimsuit because of its coverage. Just something to think about.
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Well, I can speak from experience, that it can be extremely difficult to find swimwear that fits properly AND that covers enough, AND that looks good, when your standards for coverage are different than average. So while it’s nice to point people in the direction of alternatives, it’s pretty insensitive to straight out call it ugly. I’ve been on the receiving end of comments that were not as harsh as those, and it has really upset me, because the people criticizing my swimwear didn’t realize how difficult it was for me to find a bathing suit that worked, and how even though I knew it wasn’t ideal, it was still by far the best choice available to me at the time - and that I had already considered the alternatives that people suggested, and they wouldn’t work for various reasons.

But there was also a comment describing the long pants and long shirt swimwear an assault against freedom, and stating that women should NOT wear those. There may have been others, I don’t remember, but I would consider that viewpoint pretty harsh and intolerant, and the tone of the other comments about the “ugly suit” to be insensitive to someone who might have liked the suit and who is trying really hard to do something difficult.
 
ThyKingdomCome said:
Well, I can speak from experience, that it can be extremely difficult to find swimwear that fits properly AND that covers enough, AND that looks good, when your standards for coverage are different than average. So while it’s nice to point people in the direction of alternatives, it’s pretty insensitive to straight out call it ugly. I’ve been on the receiving end of comments that were not as harsh as those, and it has really upset me, because the people criticizing my swimwear didn’t realize how difficult it was for me to find a bathing suit that worked, and how even though I knew it wasn’t ideal, it was still by far the best choice available to me at the time - and that I had already considered the alternatives that people suggested, and they wouldn’t work for various reasons.

But there was also a comment describing the long pants and long shirt swimwear an assault against freedom, and stating that women should NOT wear those. There may have been others, I don’t remember, but I would consider that viewpoint pretty harsh and intolerant, and the tone of the other comments about the “ugly suit” to be insensitive to someone who might have liked the suit and who is trying really hard to do something difficult.
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It was a comment about a garment on a link, not about a person wearing that garment so it was not a personal comment. The OP who posted that link, found it ugly too.You have the right to wear what you want and no one should have made negative comments.

I think that comment was about women being coerced /intimidated into wearing such outfits.
 
CesarAugustus said:
That was adressed some pages back.

If person B dresses modestly, and still person A has impure thoughts, is person B fault. But, If person A is dressing immodestly, is person A’s fault too.
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Who decides what is modest and immodest?

If a person decides to incite lust, he/she sins, however dressed. The person who lusts sins and is fuuly responsible fr his/her lust.

If a person dresses in a way that is considered immodest by some but not by him/her and has no intention to incite lust, then only the one who lusts, sins.

If a person runs around naked in the middle of New York or London, then he/she is either making a statement which in my opinion, in the wrong manner or needs help. Either way, not a sin but may be a crime.
 
severus68 said:
Who decides what is modest and immodest?

If a person decides to incite lust, he/she sins, however dressed. The person who lusts sins and is fuuly responsible fr his/her lust.

If a person dresses in a way that is considered immodest by some but not by him/her and has no intention to incite lust, then only the one who lusts, sins.

If a person runs around naked in the middle of New York or London, then he/she is either making a statement which in my opinion, in the wrong manner or needs help. Either way, not a sin but may be a crime.
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Not a sin? are you sure?

That sounds like a sin.

About the standards of modesty, in the previous pages that was adressed.
 
CesarAugustus said:
Not a sin? are you sure?

That sounds like a sin.

About the standards of modesty, in the previous pages that was adressed.
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While we’re at it, let’s cover up nude Renaissance paintings and sculptures. Obviously there is something inherently immodest about the human form.
 
ThyKingdomCome said:
But there was also a comment describing the long pants and long shirt swimwear an assault against freedom, and stating that women should NOT wear those.
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In other words, women should be free to wear what they want, unless what they choose to wear assaults freedom. If she’s free to wear them and does, she’s not free. If she’s free to wear them but doesn’t, she is free. To be free to wear them means having freedom, unless she wears them, in which case she’s not free.

Yossarian let out a long, slow whistle.
 
on_the_hill said:
In other words, women should be free to wear what they want, unless what they choose to wear assaults freedom. If she’s free to wear them and does, she’s not free. If she’s free to wear them but doesn’t, she is free. To be free to wear them means having freedom, unless she wears them, in which case she’s not free.

Yossarian let out a long, slow whistle.
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The intolerance of the tolerants.
 
ThyKingdomCome said:
**
But there was also a comment describing the long pants and long shirt swimwear an assault against freedom, and stating that women should NOT wear those.** There may have been others, I don’t remember, but I would consider that viewpoint pretty harsh and intolerant, and the tone of the other comments about the “ugly suit” to be insensitive to someone who might have liked the suit and who is trying really hard to do something difficult.
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Yes, besides harsh, these are in line with some secular ideologies, views that don’t have to do with Catholicism, and shouldn’t be informing the standards of Catholics.
 
ThyKingdomCome said:
Well, I can speak from experience, that it can be extremely difficult to find swimwear that fits properly AND that covers enough, AND that looks good, when your standards for coverage are different than average. So while it’s nice to point people in the direction of alternatives, it’s pretty insensitive to straight out call it ugly. I’ve been on the receiving end of comments that were not as harsh as those, and it has really upset me, because the people criticizing my swimwear didn’t realize how difficult it was for me to find a bathing suit that worked, and how even though I knew it wasn’t ideal, it was still by far the best choice available to me at the time - and that I had already considered the alternatives that people suggested, and they wouldn’t work for various reasons.

But there was also a comment describing the long pants and long shirt swimwear an assault against freedom, and stating that women should NOT wear those. There may have been others, I don’t remember, but I would consider that viewpoint pretty harsh and intolerant, and the tone of the other comments about the “ugly suit” to be insensitive to someone who might have liked the suit and who is trying really hard to do something difficult.
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As Severus noted, the swimsuit in question was not one the op owned or wore, but a swimsuit she made it clear she disliked and that she wanted help finding a better swimsuit that fit her standards of modesty. The replies calling it ugly while simultaneously helping her by giving her more suggestions were not out of line in this context. Which is abundantly clear by the fact that they did not offend the op, but rather she was grateful for them and found them helpful. The post about the burkini is the only one that went over the line and that one was not even about the op’s swimsuit. And even there it was later clarified that it was only a problem if the women were forced into it rather than being free to choose it for themselves.
 
severus68 said:
Who decides what is modest and immodest?

If a person decides to incite lust, he/she sins, however dressed. The person who lusts sins and is fuuly responsible fr his/her lust.

If a person dresses in a way that is considered immodest by some but not by him/her and has no intention to incite lust, then only the one who lusts, sins.

If a person runs around naked in the middle of New York or London, then he/she is either making a statement which in my opinion, in the wrong manner or needs help. Either way, not a sin but may be a crime.
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Saying it is never a sin is going a bit far, because you can’t deny that some circumstances may make it sinful. But you are correct in pointing out that, there are circumstances that would not make it sinful. And the rest of your post is spot on.
 
thewanderer said:
As Severus noted, the swimsuit in question was not one the op owned or wore, but a swimsuit she made it clear she disliked and that she wanted help finding a better swimsuit that fit her standards of modesty. The replies calling it ugly while simultaneously helping her by giving her more suggestions were not out of line in this context. Which is abundantly clear by the fact that they did not offend the op, but rather she was grateful for them and found them helpful. The post about the burkini is the only one that went over the line and that one was not even about the op’s swimsuit. And even there it was later clarified that it was only a problem if the women were forced into it rather than being free to choose it for themselves.
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I speak from experience. There are nicer ways to say it than expressing the level of horror at the ugliness of the suit. I was taken aback by the strong opinions, and it even made me feel self conscious about the bathing suit I’ve worn for the last few years, because mine is longer and uglier than the one in the OP. I can’t speak for the OP personally, but I know I am not the only person who feels this way, so this is my experience: I was morbidly obese for several years. I tried on ALL the styles of bathing suits, including tanks, tankinis, swim mini skirts, those shorts you get at Lands End, and a variety of cover ups. At my heavier weights NONE of those options looked good on me. I would NEVER show that much of my body at that weight in regular clothes - not because of modesty, but because it would have been embarrassing and terribly unflattering. I was so thrilled and relieved to find a company that made bathing suit skirts that go below the knees, and rash guard tops to match, and I finally felt like I could go swimming without feeling horribly embarrassed. Well, when I wore the suit, I got a number of comments from people who are close to me that made me feel really ugly in that suit. The problem is, they didn’t understand that I had already tried everything else, and that I was certain that this was the best of my choices. So not only did I feel embarrassed at the suit, but I felt like I must REALLY be ugly, if the best looking thing on me looked that bad. The people who were more diplomatic about my dilemma (I felt like I had to explain my suit everywhere I went) would just tell me it was great to have such a unique option, and they thought it was neat. Those people didn’t make me feel embarrassed. Well, my bathing suit covered more and was far uglier than the one posted in the OP. So I was personally taken aback by the fact that people had such strong feelings about that suit. It made me feel like I would really be considered a freak if I showed up on a beach in front of the CAF crowd.

I understand that people weren’t trying to insult me or the OP or anyone. And I don’t know how many of you saying that it is not personal are men or women, and I’m sure I shouldn’t generalize anyway, but as someone who is sensitive about this issue, I am saying that people should really be nicer about the way they give their opinions. You don’t know if someone reading this thread has already bought and worn that bathing suit, and you don’t know if someone might suddenly question their judgment or feel embarrassed about their own situation. It’s like when your wife asks you what you think of the new pants - you NEVER say, “oh honey don’t wear those, you look really fat in them!” even if you don’t like them. Instead you find a more diplomatic and sensitive way to say that you like a different pair better, or that a different pair is more flattering. There is just a level of care and kindness that you need to use when online, especially considering you don’t know your audience.

Ok that’s the end of sensitivity training for today. 😛 As you were…
 
now you could wear men’s board shorts and a lose fitting black tee shirt that’s how I go swimming, not very pretty but it works for me I live in jeans and tees and smock aprons so fashion isn’t big on my level sadly

Now I have seen some nice modest suits that the duggars use but I don’t know the cost.

here’s these off of etsy too nicolelee swimwear
 
severus68 said:
It was about your views.

BTW, the aspect of culture was set out by JPII (your earlier post).
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So, if some people dress immodestly is a sin, but if they are nude for whathever manifestation or public statement they are doing is not… how that works?
 
CesarAugustus said:
So, if some people dress immodestly is a sin, but if they are nude for whathever manifestation or public statement they are doing is not… how that works?
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So I guess St. Francis was being immodest when he stripped down in front of a crowd and declared he would “go naked before the Lord” in order to renounce his worldly possessions…
 
The_Bucket said:
So I guess St. Francis was being immodest when he stripped down in front of a crowd and declared he would “go naked before the Lord” in order to renounce his worldly possessions…
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Well good point, but that would be an exception, very different from the nudist protesters of today.
 
CesarAugustus said:
Well good point, but that would be an exception, very different from the nudist protesters of today.
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Depends who it is. I’m no fan of PETA, for instance, but I think many of their protesters are sincere. They are, objectively, wrong in their views when it comes to say, comparing the eating of animals to human sacrifice or something. But they would not be immodest, just misguided.
 
The_Bucket said:
Depends who it is. I’m no fan of PETA, for instance, but I think many of their protesters are sincere. They are, objectively, wrong in their views when it comes to say, comparing the eating of animals to human sacrifice or something. But they would not be immodest, just misguided.
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The nude protests and displays I’m aware of, are immodest. Feminists, lgbt groups, FEMEN, and some photographer that got lots of people gathered nude in certain places.

About the last one, a Priest tried to block one of these via lawsuit, but I don’t know how it went.
 
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