Modesty advice

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If I was in your position where one or more of my friends were doing something that I thought was inappropriate or risky, I would consider it my duty as their friend to ‘advise them’. I offer my advise once only and they can listen to me or choose to ignore me. We all have free will and I think it is very important that we respect this and don’t try to force our views and opinions on others.
 
That is hard, I would use prudence in how close you are to each friend. I have some friends I would never dream of saying anything to about the way they dress because they aren’t really practicing Christians and have no basis to go off of my statements. If I said that to them they would just feel offended no matter how softly I put it. But I do have closer friends that I have said things to. I talked to one of my good friends about her being on the birth control pill and about her sexual relationship she was having outside of marriage because I really love her and I don’t want her to get hurt by any man or chemical harming her body. She has continued to do whatever she wants but she knows my stance on it and that I was coming from a place of concern, not judgment. So I think it just depends on how close you are with them.
 
alexandratm said:
I agree - I don’t think it’s appropriate. It’s very tough to be a teenaged girl, with many who struggle with self-esteem and body image. It is not your place to instruct them how to dress, that is for their parents and other adult authority figures. You would like as not either offend your friends and thus, no longer be friends, or perhaps cause them to be incredibly stressed over their body and “causing” inappropriate behavior towards themselves. As many others in the thread pointed out, blaming a girl for a boy’s inappropriate behavior is not the route you should take.

To me, it’s not really about bikinis at all, it’s about what is appropriate for you to address, as a teenaged boy with friends the same age. Frankly, I don’t think such commentary coming from you is appropriate at all, even if done with the best of intentions.
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This.

OP, it is November, I doubt you will get the chance to see a friend in a bikini anytime soon. Why bring up something that happened this summer? Be prepared to lose friends, like seriously. You don’t know what’s in their heart, you don’t know if they intentionally put on a swimsuit last summer just to entice boys. They more than likely thought/said, “OMG! Such a cut swimsuit! Suzie, does this make me look fat? I LOVE this color/print. AHHH! I’m so getting this.” Because that is how teenaged/young adult females are. It isn’t your place to tell them. You aren’t an authority figure. If you are having a problem with thinking dirty thoughts about your friends, make some new friends.
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
This.

OP, it is November, I doubt you will get the chance to see a friend in a bikini anytime soon. Why bring up something that happened this summer? Be prepared to lose friends, like seriously. You don’t know what’s in their heart, you don’t know if they intentionally put on a swimsuit last summer just to entice boys. They more than likely thought/said, “OMG! Such a cut swimsuit! Suzie, does this make me look fat? I LOVE this color/print. AHHH! I’m so getting this.” Because that is how teenaged/young adult females are. It isn’t your place to tell them. You aren’t an authority figure. If you are having a problem with thinking dirty thoughts about your friends, make some new friends.
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  1. He has stated his motive. It is not about “having a problem with dirty thoughts”.
  2. Yes caution about loosing friends etc is in order.
  3. He is NOT saying anything about what is in their heart. Or about their intent. He is I think presuming innocence on their part.
  4. Yes that is the problem – young girls do not often realize the reality of such fashion choices. Even those who are seeking to follow Christ with great love (see Bl. Pope John Paul II on the subject).
 
Loving_disciple said:
If I where to give a person advice about modesty and it was for the well being of their soul and I lost their friendship is it worth it. The answer is yes but it is still very hard to accept
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Actually, that really depends. If you were to give them advice about modesty, but they took it as you judging them and trying to control them, it may turn them away from dressing modestly, or even of orthodox Catholics who care about their faith. In which case, not only would you have lost a friendship but you would have driven them further away from living a good and moral life close to Christ in his church. That is why extreme prudence must be taken when considering fraternal correction. Yes, we do at times have a serious moral obligation to provide fraternal correction to others, but there are certain conditions that must be met. Namely,
the delinquency to be corrected or prevented is a grievous one;
there is no good reason to believe that the sinner will adequately provide for himself;
there is a well-founded expectation that the admonition will be heeded;
there is no one else just as well fitted for this work of Christian charity and likely to undertake it;
there is no special trouble or disadvantage accruing to the reformer as a result of his zeal.
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In addition, the Catholic encyclopedia notes
Practically, however, individuals without any official capacity are seldom impeachable as having seriously transgressed the law in this matter because it is but rarely one finds the coalition of circumstances just enumerated.
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KendraDZ1902 said:
This.

OP, it is November, I doubt you will get the chance to see a friend in a bikini anytime soon. Why bring up something that happened this summer? Be prepared to lose friends, like seriously. You don’t know what’s in their heart, you don’t know if they intentionally put on a swimsuit last summer just to entice boys. They more than likely thought/said, “OMG! Such a cut swimsuit! Suzie, does this make me look fat? I LOVE this color/print. AHHH! I’m so getting this.” Because that is how teenaged/young adult females are. It isn’t your place to tell them. You aren’t an authority figure. If you are having a problem with thinking dirty thoughts about your friends, make some new friends.
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I don’t have a problem thinking dirty thoughts about my friends. If I just dropped them I wouldn’t be a very good person. If I don’t at least mention it to them I would be falling to love them and falling what Jesus called me to do. When Jesus someone sin he didn’t judge them he forgave them and told them SIN NO MORE. So I don’t judge my friends but I will encourage them not to sin. Though my friends aren’t sinning
 
Bookcat said:
  1. He has stated his motive. It is not about “having a problem with dirty thoughts”.
  2. Yes caution about loosing friends etc is in order.
  3. He is NOT saying anything about what is in their heart. Or about their intent. He is I think presuming innocence on their part.
  4. Yes that is the problem – young girls do not often realize the reality of such fashion choices. Even those who are seeking to follow Christ with great love (see Bl. Pope John Paul II on the subject).
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  1. Yes
  2. Yes
  3. Yes they are innocent
  4. Yes
 
Loving_disciple said:
I don’t have a problem thinking dirty thoughts about my friends. If I just dropped them I wouldn’t be a very good person. If I don’t at least mention it to them I would let them be living in sin and falling what Jesus called me to do. When Jesus someone sin he didn’t judge them he forgave them and told them SIN NO MORE. So I don’t judge my friends but I will encourage them not to sin. Though my friends aren’t sinning
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:confused:

I’m a little confused… how would you be letting them live in sin if they are not sinning?
 
thewanderer said:
Actually, that really depends. If you were to give them advice about modesty, but they took it as you judging them and trying to control them, it may turn them away from dressing modestly, or even of orthodox Catholics who care about their faith. In which case, not only would you have lost a friendship but you would have driven them further away from living a good and moral life close to Christ in his church. That is why extreme prudence must be taken when considering fraternal correction. Yes, we do at times have a serious moral obligation to provide fraternal correction to others, but there are certain conditions that must be met. Namely,

In addition, the Catholic encyclopedia notes
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You are right
 
I have several thoughts on this. First, modeling is a powerful form of teaching and instruction. If we value modesty, dress modestly. I also think it helps to dress well, and dress modestly. We women can have style and modesty at the same time. When I dress with style and modesty, I’m dressing for myself (and hubby of course). We also have to remember that each person has a different idea of what “modesty” is; for example some women feel that pants are more modest than skirts, or vice versa.

Second, asking questions or having a conversation are sometimes easier than just pointing something out to someone head on. “I recently saw a news conference about modest bathing suits online, what do you guys thing about the idea of modesty and how we should dress?” By asking questions instead of pointedly “telling” someone something, we show respect, and have a conversation instead of a lecture.
 
“…since a woman does not find in herself the sensuality of which a man as a rule cannot but be aware of in himself she does not feel so great a need to conceal ‘the body as a potential object of enjoyment’. The evolution of modesty in woman requires some initial insight into the male psychology”

–Karol Wojtyla (Bl. Pope John Paul II) Love and Responsibility -Ignatius Press.

Since women do not experience things the way men do – they need insight into how a man experiences things – to assist them in dressing modestly…

Now how they “get that insight” can vary. Often times the indirect way is best…unless one is say their parent etc.
 
Kliska said:
I have several thoughts on this. First, modeling is a powerful form of teaching and instruction. If we value modesty, dress modestly. I also think it helps to dress well, and dress modestly. We women can have style and modesty at the same time. When I dress with style and modesty, I’m dressing for myself (and hubby of course). We also have to remember that each person has a different idea of what “modesty” is; for example some women feel that pants are more modest than skirts, or vice versa.

Second, asking questions or having a conversation are sometimes easier than just pointing something out to someone head on. “I recently saw a news conference about modest bathing suits online, what do you guys thing about the idea of modesty and how we should dress?” By asking questions instead of pointedly “telling” someone something, we show respect, and have a conversation instead of a lecture.
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Yes, this is an excellent idea of a way to broach the subject with them without making it seem as though you are judging them. I mean, you would obviously still need to be careful about how this discussion proceeds, be charitable to them, and if they seem as though they do not wish to discuss it, or continue discussing it, respect their wishes and end the conversation, even if you haven’t made all the points you feel like you should make.
 
Loving_disciple said:
I should have put failing to love them
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And again, whether or not you would be failing to love them depends on the circumstances. If prudence dictates that it is actually appropriate for you personally to speak to them about this particular issue then yes, failing to discuss it may be a failing on your part to love them. However, if prudence dictates it is not appropriate for you to have such a discussion or to attempt to engage in fraternal correction then it is not in any way shape or form a failure to love them by refraining from having said conversation. I don’t know the details of your particular situation so I cannot advise you on whether or not it is appropriate for you to discuss this with them. But I believe it is important for you to realize, not only that you may have a responsibility to discuss this with them, but that you also may have a responsibility to refrain from discussing this with them, all depending on the particular circumstances. Discern carefully what you should do and remember to always act with charity and respect.
 
Bookcat said:
Since women do not experience things the way men do – they need insight into how a man experiences things – to assist them in dressing modestly…

Now how they “get that insight” can vary. Often times the indirect way is best…unless one is say their parent etc.
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^^This.

Some years ago a (male) classmate of my daughters spent a lot of time with us. We often ended up at the Mall together. Now my daughter and I had often commented to each other on the clothes young girls were wearing, but it was when this young man was with us and either stated before we said anything or agreed with us that I realised how true the above is.

And that strikes me OP as a method you could use. Don’t comment on what your friends wear, but point out on others where inappropriate fashion choices have been made.
 
One time, Teresa Tomeo said on her radio program that something she does is give someone a great Catholic book on the topic she wants to bring up with them and then it seems like less of a personal attack and more of just a generalization, especially if the book is someone else’s personal story.
 
Protecting women from loose men via “modesty” – that’s putting on a a false cover on the situation – for it hides the real sickness that festers and grows --a disordered desired lustful mind. Grace is the solution to a disordered mind.
 
men who are wanting to see women as objects will not stop no matter what they are wearing. we have a point there.

but those who don’t but unfortunately have developed the bad habit of having lustful toughts, are certainly not having it easier by people dressing immodestly.

Please read this and answer honestly:
a friend of yours told you that his laptop was stolen,you ask how did it happen. He tells you that he leave it on bench on the street while he went to a nearby store to use the restroom and when he came back it was gone.

what would you say to him?
 
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