Modesty for women and men

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I am having a gathering for girls and would like to know some “quick facts” on modesty in dress, behaviour, speech etc for women and men so I can print out for the girls.
can anyone point me in the right direction to get these facts? I really like what Jason Evert talks has to say and how he tackles the topic, but I can only find mostly videos, and the writings I can find are very long and hard to summarise in quick facts. It needs to be in point form (small paragraphs ok) as time is limited.
items:
what is modesty?
why dress modestly?
how dressing modestly plays a big part in behaving modestly and remaining pure
how we have to not only dress modestly to protect ourselves but also our brothers and sisters
what clothes is considered modest for women?
what clothes is considered modest for men?
facts on how visual men are, scientific and medical proofs (jason evert has these on talks)
etc, etc, etc

any help would be greatly appreciated.
God bless
 
My experiences are if girls dress immodestly (short skirts, tight clothing, low cut/revealing shirts etc.) they are going to get attention both from males and females. I would say it would mostly come from males. I am a college student and I see a lot of girls dressing immodestly. Immodest clothing attracts instant attention, they will most likely stand out. I used to go to nightclubs and you would see girls dress really immodest. I see a lot of girls in school wearing tight jeans and thongs, those are definitely a distraction.

As for modest dress for men I guess not wearing tank tops or muscle shirts ?. Some guys may wear smaller sized shirts to show off their muscles and “buffness” from working out at the gym.

I would say i’m a visual person. I can usually tell when a girl is dressing immodest and wearing tight clothing. That is because I constantly see it in media and at school.

In my opinion, I wish girls would dress more modestly. Before coming back to the Catholic Church I used to absolutely love it when a girl dressed immodestly. Now, that I came back to the Catholic Church I do my best to divert my attention if i see a girl dressed immodestly.
 
I am having a gathering for girls and would like to know some “quick facts” on modesty in dress, behaviour, speech etc for women and men so I can print out for the girls.
can anyone point me in the right direction to get these facts? I really like what Jason Evert talks has to say and how he tackles the topic, but I can only find mostly videos, and the writings I can find are very long and hard to summarise in quick facts. It needs to be in point form (small paragraphs ok) as time is limited.
items:
what is modesty?
why dress modestly?
how dressing modestly plays a big part in behaving modestly and remaining pure
how we have to not only dress modestly to protect ourselves but also our brothers and sisters
what clothes is considered modest for women?
what clothes is considered modest for men?
facts on how visual men are, scientific and medical proofs (jason evert has these on talks)
etc, etc, etc

any help would be greatly appreciated.
God bless
My response here will probably get axed, but I’ll say it anyway.

God made sex. While mankind is corrupt, and we really mess-up sex as we corrupt it, it still has a role in our lives.

A mature person isn’t one who HIDES his or her sexuality.

A mature person is one who successfully merges sexuality into his or her life in a way that is good, and fun for one’s spouse.

And because normal, healthy human sexuality looks TO establishing a fun, healthy sexual relationship with a spouse, we have to be – and it is MORALLY GOOD to be – attractive before marriage.

And flirtatious (with limitations).

So, the appropriate message to kids is not “HIDE IT.”

It’s “BE SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE, BUT IN A GODLY WAY.”

Remember, sex is not God’s enemy.

He invented it.

You want these kids to grow up to be attractive, fun young women who are also Godly.

If these girls are other people’s daughters, you really need to report, in detail, to their parents. You have no right to touch on the issue of sexuality and dress – one way OR the other – if it is a policy.
 
what is modesty? Modesty is self respect and respect for those aorund you. It is not attempting to draw lust or undue attentin to yourself.

why dress modestly? Because it is cruel to intentinally cause someones eyes to fill over with lust, and because you deserve repect.

how dressing modestly plays a big part in behaving modestly and remaining pure. If you dress like a cop, don’t be surprised if people think you’re a co. if you talk with a Southern accent, don’t be surprised when people ask how the weather is in Texas. So if you dress like you’re easy, that’s how people with treat you, and you may begin to believ it yourself.

what clothes is considered modest for women? There is not answer for this. there are no set rules, or guidelines, as what’s considered modest varies form culture to culture. In some countries, breats are not sexualized, yet the legs are, or the necks, etc. Additionally, in context, one article of clothign may be considered immodest for certain occasins. For example,. where i live, it is blaaazing hot, and I see no problem with women wearing tank tops, so long as cleavage is kept to a tasteful minimum. I never understood the fuss about OH MY GOODNESS A SHOULDER! however, while a tsnk top might be fine on a bike ride, it’s not, perhgaps, for church.

what clothes is considered modest for men?same as above.
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People get overly hung up trying to address this issue with fixed rules. It doesn’t work.

My suggestion to women is that they stop and think hard about what they are non-verbally saying to men about themselves with their look. Men are very visual creatures. If your look tells people that your best thing about you is the sexual parts of your body, odds are the average man will never notice anything else about you.

Now ask: Do you want that? Dress accordingly.

My suggestion to men is - look her in the eye! Then the rest doesn’t matter so much.

As for male modesty, I have no idea if women are as visual as men are. I’m told not, but what do I know?? But I promise not to inflict my bare chest or sagging belly on any of you gals. With my north European genes, you’d be blinded by the glare and I’d get skin cancer in about 2 years anyways, so swim shirt it is for me!
 
The Marylike Standards

for Modesty in Dress

(as set down by the Vatican)

“A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent materials are improper.”

–The Cardinal Vicar of Pope Pius XI

salvemariaregina.info/Modesty.html
 
The Marylike Standards

for Modesty in Dress

(as set down by the Vatican)

“A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent materials are improper.”

–The Cardinal Vicar of Pope Pius XI

salvemariaregina.info/Modesty.html
This is not a set rule in the church, and it would be nice if you would aknowledge that. We’re not Menonites, and don’t have to dress with clothes to our throats and elbows. One persons quote does NOT equal TEH VATICAN SEZ!

If you perform a quick search in the Ask An Apologist thread, you’ll see Michelle Arnold long ago debunked that “Mary Like” means dresseing like an old hag
 
I really wish we all dressed like back in the 1930’s at least. It looked so professional even going to church that way. I heard once that nowadays people look more like slobs. I guess that can be true. More people don’t care to much of how they are dressed and want to wear shorts very short, short skirts and low cut shirts, for men its the no shirt at all or muscle shirts that cause attention. I know God probably won’t judge us on how we dressed to get into heaven, but he did say not to lust, and by dressing a certain way we can cause someone to lust over us. plus it takes away the beauty of our faces away. People will look less at someones face and more at their body. As someone said before, I too used to dress very immodest. I wasn’t attending church as a teen and didn’t know too much of what I was making of myself by dressing that way. But, it wasn’t very long that I changed that way of thinking, when I started to feel very uncomfortable when men would look at me well my body not my face. You might want to tell the teens how there are older men, preditors who could try something to a young woman because of how she is dressed. I just think it’s more likely to happen. In fact did happen to me and a friend who where walking late at night dressed in short skirts at about 17 years old. An older man drove near us and kept looking at our skirts and telling us to get in the car. We ran off.

I would say as some have already said, if it causes attention to private areas like breasts, or thighs or rump I would say its immodest. I mean like cleavage, or too short of a skirt or shorts. Oh or see through clothing, yea that’s totally not modest in my opinion.

I don’t know I don’t think this is immodest but I really am not fond of spaghetti straps because they are extremely tight and show the bra straps.

-Nicki
 
This is not a set rule in the church, and it would be nice if you would aknowledge that. We’re not Menonites, and don’t have to dress with clothes to our throats and elbows. One persons quote does NOT equal TEH VATICAN SEZ!

If you perform a quick search in the Ask An Apologist thread, you’ll see Michelle Arnold long ago debunked that “Mary Like” means dresseing like an old hag
I’m 30 but I could totally see myself dressing like “an old hag” very soon haha, I love being older. Oh especially their shoes! So comfortable. I am in no way making a joke of what you had said, I am being serious, I really like the older look. Perhaps I belong in another century lol

-Nicki
 
Welcome, TwoTurtles! What a wonderful question!

May I ask, what is the exact occasion you’re planning?

I’m sorry, I didn’t see what the occasion was or may have missed that.

**In general, I think of modesty as always choosing not to attract undue negative attention to oneself by clothing or outward appearance, but instead to keep in mind what is appropriate for the occasion. **👋

Do you recall that photo op several years ago when a number of very nice young ladies from a high school sports team showed up at the Bush White House on a hot summer day, many wearing nice dresses but also very basic, (almost flip flop) sandals?

The nearly- bare feet caused quite a split down the country. Some were on the side of the nearly bare foot look and others from the Old School were horrified!:eek:

Many asked “Where on earth were their mothers?”***:nun1:

Some asked, well, what if they showed up in the basketball/or soccer shorts and sneakers? Why would that not be appropriate?* I wondered where the White House Liaison was when she booked them to come.* Perhaps she assumed that footwear would not cause such a stir. She could have made some suggestions in advance. Compared to the way most young people were dressing at the time, I thought they looked lovely, despite the shoes. It was, after all, a hot day.

We live in a day when people seem not to care a whit what one wears; to Mass, to go shopping, to meet new people etc. Strangely, even the worst hoodlums seem to dress decently for their court appearances. People always seem to put their best foot forward at a job interview. What does that tell us? For whom are we dressing? What do our choices say about us? I think how we present ourselves speaks volumes about our inner selves.:angel1:

Some of the present generation will laugh when I tell them how young ladies used to take an extra shower, change clothes, re-do their makeup and dress up quite a bit just to go with their father to pick up someone from the airport. One might see a lady at the A & P (that’s a grocery store chain) sporting white gloves and a hat, and our brothers were expected to don a suit and tie for such an occasion. Certainly for Mass, we wore whatever was our best, appropriate church attire.:highprayer:

I think it is so refreshing when anyone even asks about modesty and appropriate dress, etc. In my humble opinion, I would say that what matters most are the following;

***What is the occasion and what will the activities include? ***

***Will we need to bring a change of clothes?

Where is the event? (Fox hunt in Virginia or a BBQ at Uncle Ted’s in Jersey?

What choices do I have?***

If it’s a beach party, well, there* are *going to be bathing suits, aren’t there? But even here, there are one- pieces and there are eensy weensie suits and bikinis.
There are swim trunks and there are those dreadful Speedos (that are fine for official swim team events but perhaps not so fine if our Great Aunt Pitty Patt is hosting a sea side brunch for us. We wouldn’t want her, or her friends, to faint would we? :frighten:

If I were a young lady at a beach or pool event, I might have a nice cover -up along and definitely a change of clothing and some towels.
**
Is there a dress code at the event?**

Is there a guest being honored? Who is it?*** (Aunt Pitty Pat’s favorite grand niece from a convent boarding school, The local Bishop, or royalty?

If I am deciding on the dress code, all of the above are good questions.

We ladies shouldn’t have to dress in floor length maxis, but neither should we wear tube tops and micro minis in public, and certainly not at Mass. Find a nice medium.

We should stand out not for the flamboyant clothes on our backs or Heaven forbid, scary, Goth nails or black lipstick, but for our friendly spirits and consideration for others.

In general, dressing nicely for the occasion/event and choosing to “err” on the side of modesty versus being in any way flamboyant, should work best.

Outside of Halloween or slumber parties,I hope we can all think about how we present ourselves, (God’s beloved children,) in a way that causes ease, not distress or gossip.

It’s sad to see that many people choose to appear everywhere in clothing that, in another bygone era, were considered suitable only for cleaning out the garage.
*
Oh, I am wistful for the days when we did not judge the person BY their clothes, because no matter what we had on, there was a social contract and an understanding that most folks were doing their best to simply look nice.*

We did not judge a young fellow by his car nor his lack of one. . Some of the nicest people :knight1:I have known have walked their way around university campuses, not sped around in fancy cars. Their aristocracy was of the mind, never in fancy vehicles or a flamboyant wardrobe.

My own father was so beautifully Lincoln-esque, a brilliant man from a midwestern farming family, whose later journalism career found him in the presence of presidents and military heroes. My mother knew a great man when she saw one, and she met him at the* beginning *of his career when he was struggling and quite humble in circumstances. She wasn’t about to let him get away.

It was often those in the most humble circumstances that always seemed so presentable. Most of us knew how to re-work a dress or jacket that was wearing out, and found creative ways to stretch our clothing allowance. But we did not purposely “dress down” until the 1970’s, when alas, the jeans came out for a decade and replaced the collegiate skirts and tailored look that, from time to time, seems to make a real comeback!

I hope this helps and appreciate the question very much!

Kathryn Ann:heaven:
 
This is not a set rule in the church, and it would be nice if you would aknowledge that. We’re not Menonites, and don’t have to dress with clothes to our throats and elbows. One persons quote does NOT equal TEH VATICAN SEZ!

If you perform a quick search in the Ask An Apologist thread, you’ll see Michelle Arnold long ago debunked that “Mary Like” means dresseing like an old hag
First, nowhere did i say that what i posted is the set rule. What i did is just posted the heading then the link.

I would be of opinion then that you know the rule since you said that what i posted is not the rule for modesty in dress as set by Vatican.
 
My response here will probably get axed, but I’ll say it anyway.

God made sex. While mankind is corrupt, and we really mess-up sex as we corrupt it, it still has a role in our lives.

A mature person isn’t one who HIDES his or her sexuality.

A mature person is one who successfully merges sexuality into his or her life in a way that is good, and fun for one’s spouse.

And because normal, healthy human sexuality looks TO establishing a fun, healthy sexual relationship with a spouse, we have to be – and it is MORALLY GOOD to be – attractive before marriage.

And flirtatious (with limitations).

So, the appropriate message to kids is not “HIDE IT.”

It’s “BE SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE, BUT IN A GODLY WAY.”

Remember, sex is not God’s enemy.

He invented it.

You want these kids to grow up to be attractive, fun young women who are also Godly.

If these girls are other people’s daughters, you really need to report, in detail, to their parents. You have no right to touch on the issue of sexuality and dress – one way OR the other – if it is a policy.
Thank you for your response, I will definately not be using any of your advice. If I have no right to touch on the issue of modesty - when my opinion is that our bodies are sacred and we dress accordingly - then you most definately should not be throwing around your advice to kids to flaunt your sexuality.
Maybe you should do a little more research on the topic, jason evert or christopher west or jpII, before giving such advice.
I would definately want somebody to love me for what is inside of me, and i would never ever flaunt my sexuality (i assume you mean look sexy - albeit in a Godly way - if that can be done!!) to get someone to notice me.
You argue the same old point with your fancy new language - that people like me “are prudes”… You can say it which ever way you please, I will cover my body BECAUSE it is good, not because it is bad and should be hidden. God created me in His image and likeness, and therefore I will honour and protect my body (and my neighbour) from the sin of lust. I’m sorry but we DO NOT live an ideal world.
So maybe it is YOU who should be reported for your harmful advice. God forbid a young person hears this kind of rubbish, you will be held accountable for leading them down that path.
I truly hope you do some more research and educate yourself on the Theology of the Body and correct your ways, this is really sad. I am so sad from your advice.
May God bless you and show you the Truth
 
thank you for your response, i will definately not be using any of your advice. If i have no right to touch on the issue of modesty - when my opinion is that our bodies are sacred and we dress accordingly - then you most definately should not be throwing around your advice to kids to flaunt your sexuality.
Maybe you should do a little more research on the topic, jason evert or christopher west or jpii, before giving such advice.
I would definately want somebody to love me for what is inside of me, and i would never ever flaunt my sexuality (i assume you mean look sexy - albeit in a godly way - if that can be done!!) to get someone to notice me.
You argue the same old point with your fancy new language - that people like me “are prudes”… You can say it which ever way you please, i will cover my body because it is good, not because it is bad and should be hidden. God created me in his image and likeness, and therefore i will honour and protect my body (and my neighbour) from the sin of lust. I’m sorry but we do not live an ideal world.
So maybe it is you who should be reported for your harmful advice. God forbid a young person hears this kind of rubbish, you will be held accountable for leading them down that path.
I truly hope you do some more research and educate yourself on the theology of the body and correct your ways, this is really sad. I am so sad from your advice.
May god bless you and show you the truth
the entire point of their post. You did not understand it
 
I’m 30 but I could totally see myself dressing like “an old hag” very soon haha, I love being older. Oh especially their shoes! So comfortable. I am in no way making a joke of what you had said, I am being serious, I really like the older look. Perhaps I belong in another century lol

-Nicki
…then I implore you to actually research what was fashionable in another cetnruty. You have to go seeveral centuries back for what I described to be “historical”. women have worn well fitting gowns for hundreds of years, that were both fitted, and modest. Not sacks.
 
First, nowhere did i say that what i posted is the set rule. What i did is just posted the heading then the link.

I would be of opinion then that you know the rule since you said that what i posted is not the rule for modesty in dress as set by Vatican.
There ISN"T one. I challenge you to find an official, STILL TAUGHT and officially enforced and upheld list of what someone can and cannot wear.

And btw, stop being a hypocrit like everyone else on here, being all OH HURR DURR I DIDN"T SAY THAAT!

STANDARDS FOR MARYLIKE DRESS AS SET. DOWN. BY. THE. VATICAN>

Set down.

By the vatican.

YOU DUMB ****
 
Thank you for your response, I will definately not be using any of your advice. If I have no right to touch on the issue of modesty - when my opinion is that our bodies are sacred and we dress accordingly - then you most definately should not be throwing around your advice to kids to flaunt your sexuality.
Maybe you should do a little more research on the topic, jason evert or christopher west or jpII, before giving such advice.
I would definately want somebody to love me for what is inside of me, and i would never ever flaunt my sexuality (i assume you mean look sexy - albeit in a Godly way - if that can be done!!) to get someone to notice me.
You argue the same old point with your fancy new language - that people like me “are prudes”… You can say it which ever way you please, I will cover my body BECAUSE it is good, not because it is bad and should be hidden. God created me in His image and likeness, and therefore I will honour and protect my body (and my neighbour) from the sin of lust. I’m sorry but we DO NOT live an ideal world.
So maybe it is YOU who should be reported for your harmful advice. God forbid a young person hears this kind of rubbish, you will be held accountable for leading them down that path.
I truly hope you do some more research and educate yourself on the Theology of the Body and correct your ways, this is really sad. I am so sad from your advice.
May God bless you and show you the Truth
👍

Well said, and good call!
 
…then I implore you to actually research what was fashionable in another cetnruty. You have to go seeveral centuries back for what I described to be “historical”. women have worn well fitting gowns for hundreds of years, that were both fitted, and modest. Not sacks.
I am so sorry I wasn’t trying to argue with you. I don’t think you understood what I meant or I might have wrote it wrong I apologize. I was saying more like… I really love the way people dressed back years and years ago. Century’s ago. Like Gone with the wind I love that movie and their attire so very much. But also, even further back, the way they make Mary look in pictures I love that. It would be beautiful to still be able to dress like all those times frames back is what I meant. I actually research for a living, and have been obsessed with old world times and looks. But as I am writing here its all over the place, because I love everything outdated. Like I had said earlier, I love the 1930’s. But, also love 1860’s and 1760’s and Moses times and so on, but even as early as the 1960’s. Everything seemed so decent in those times. That’s all I meant 🙂

About me saying I might be dressing like an old hag I didn’t mean to say that I felt terrible after, because I don’t use that word. I call older people elderly. and what I meant by it was that I wouldn’t mind dressing like how elderly people dress from our time now. I wouldn’t mind at all because they always seem so comfortable.

So you see I was all over the place in my small message, I was more thinking to myself and not actually writing it all down so it didn’t make sense what I meant. I am sorry again.

However what do you mean by “sacks” I am not sure what that means.

-Nicki
 
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