S
- Status
J
johnnyjones
Guest
My friend, please don’t fall into the catagory of those who don’t fully read ones posting and then quote it. I said, “where did the word slutty clothes come from” in my post. That term has an origin and apparently was devised to distinguish forms of apparel using slang. Don’t apply a false statement to me in the name of Christ.
No woman has ever asked their husband about how they look before they go out the door? And not just if they look tidy or overweight.
Women and men can wear whatever they want, but we all know what certain types of clothes are designed to do. Why not wear a low cut blouse to church if clothes have no bearing on those around you? For Christian women and men there is a way to dress that is appropriate. Most times it is “unspoken” because it is just common sense… Most men and women know that, especially women because they are often conscious of fashion.
J
johnnyjones
Guest
Based on your interpretation of Jesus’ words all types of behavior can occur but we say and do nothing. That is not the intent of the verse, do a study on it and keep in mind you need to read on as in, “…for by the same measure…” With your philosophy why evangelize? Why say anything about sin?
You need a clear understanding of the word “judge” as well. “Therefore let us no longer judge one another, but rather judge this, that you should not put a stumbling block or a hindrance in your brothers way”. A judgment can be one who has authority to render a sentence as well as other meanings in biblical context.
No one is saying (hopefully) don’t look into your own eye.
You seem to be getting a repeated odd joy out of saying “my weakness” and questioning my “dignity”. Those comments are very revealing.
And no, when you said honor, I said pride in one sentence, and honor in another. Two different points made that you want to keep intertwining. Do you think when I’m writing about improprieties in fashion I’m only addressing one man, me? A person can present themselves as an object of lust and most people know how clothing plays into that, except possibly you.
U
ubcgirl
Guest
I’m going to jump past all the miscommunication and just put in my two cents 
I’m nearly 30 - when I left the church in my early mid-20’s, I don’t think I dressed very modestly. My skirts were too short (though by no means anywhere near the length of short-shorts this season!), and I showed too much of my upper chest. Haha - thankfully God did not make me too well endowed, so showing cleavage was never a problem.
When I was looking at getting back into a relationship with God, I also had a friend who was getting more seriously into her Judaism beliefs. Her thoughts on modest dress made me think - she was confident enough in her body that she could cover it up from the leering eyes of men, and save it for some man who will be lucky enough to be her husband someday. She did not feel like she had to dress modestly, but she wanted to, and feels good doing so.
I also have relatives who are Mormon - and one day it hit me, that my then-in-highschool female cousin never looked “skanky” in any of her pictures. She always looked well put together and quite professional for a grade 11 and 12 teen.
Then I looked at my Protestant friends - I have seen one of my friends’ cleavage more times than I care for. And its right out there for everyone to see. And this is a good “Christian” girl - my guess is she is just way too naive to know what men (and women!) are actually thinking.
In any case, since last summer, I have started dressing much more modestly. Skirts/shorts to my knees, and covering my shoulders. Now that its getting warmer, and it does get crazy hot where I live, it might take some being creative.
I wish more girls dressed modestly - I think sometimes it may come down to just having a talk with them and seeing what their thoughts are and if they are able to understand God’s given Holiness of their bodies.
As for men - I live in a town where men are always shirtless in the summer, with shaved chests! I figured if I can see that a man shaves his chest, he should very well put his shirt back on.
I’m nearly 30 - when I left the church in my early mid-20’s, I don’t think I dressed very modestly. My skirts were too short (though by no means anywhere near the length of short-shorts this season!), and I showed too much of my upper chest. Haha - thankfully God did not make me too well endowed, so showing cleavage was never a problem.
When I was looking at getting back into a relationship with God, I also had a friend who was getting more seriously into her Judaism beliefs. Her thoughts on modest dress made me think - she was confident enough in her body that she could cover it up from the leering eyes of men, and save it for some man who will be lucky enough to be her husband someday. She did not feel like she had to dress modestly, but she wanted to, and feels good doing so.
I also have relatives who are Mormon - and one day it hit me, that my then-in-highschool female cousin never looked “skanky” in any of her pictures. She always looked well put together and quite professional for a grade 11 and 12 teen.
Then I looked at my Protestant friends - I have seen one of my friends’ cleavage more times than I care for. And its right out there for everyone to see. And this is a good “Christian” girl - my guess is she is just way too naive to know what men (and women!) are actually thinking.
In any case, since last summer, I have started dressing much more modestly. Skirts/shorts to my knees, and covering my shoulders. Now that its getting warmer, and it does get crazy hot where I live, it might take some being creative.
I wish more girls dressed modestly - I think sometimes it may come down to just having a talk with them and seeing what their thoughts are and if they are able to understand God’s given Holiness of their bodies.
As for men - I live in a town where men are always shirtless in the summer, with shaved chests! I figured if I can see that a man shaves his chest, he should very well put his shirt back on.
J
johnnyjones
Guest
Excellent points all around!I’m going to jump past all the miscommunication and just put in my two cents
I’m nearly 30 - when I left the church in my early mid-20’s, I don’t think I dressed very modestly. My skirts were too short (though by no means anywhere near the length of short-shorts this season!), and I showed too much of my upper chest. Haha - thankfully God did not make me too well endowed, so showing cleavage was never a problem.
When I was looking at getting back into a relationship with God, I also had a friend who was getting more seriously into her Judaism beliefs. Her thoughts on modest dress made me think - she was confident enough in her body that she could cover it up from the leering eyes of men, and save it for some man who will be lucky enough to be her husband someday. She did not feel like she had to dress modestly, but she wanted to, and feels good doing so.
I also have relatives who are Mormon - and one day it hit me, that my then-in-highschool female cousin never looked “skanky” in any of her pictures. She always looked well put together and quite professional for a grade 11 and 12 teen.
Then I looked at my Protestant friends - I have seen one of my friends’ cleavage more times than I care for. And its right out there for everyone to see. And this is a good “Christian” girl - my guess is she is just way too naive to know what men (and women!) are actually thinking.
In any case, since last summer, I have started dressing much more modestly. Skirts/shorts to my knees, and covering my shoulders. Now that its getting warmer, and it does get crazy hot where I live, it might take some being creative.
I wish more girls dressed modestly - I think sometimes it may come down to just having a talk with them and seeing what their thoughts are and if they are able to understand God’s given Holiness of their bodies.
As for men - I live in a town where men are always shirtless in the summer, with shaved chests! I figured if I can see that a man shaves his chest, he should very well put his shirt back on.
S
severus68
Guest
You are entitled to dress the way you want. However, I do not see any need to put down Protestants. I am also puzzled as to why any school girl ( your cousin) would want to look professional.I’m going to jump past all the miscommunication and just put in my two cents
I’m nearly 30 - when I left the church in my early mid-20’s, I don’t think I dressed very modestly. My skirts were too short (though by no means anywhere near the length of short-shorts this season!), and I showed too much of my upper chest. Haha - thankfully God did not make me too well endowed, so showing cleavage was never a problem.
When I was looking at getting back into a relationship with God, I also had a friend who was getting more seriously into her Judaism beliefs. Her thoughts on modest dress made me think - she was confident enough in her body that she could cover it up from the leering eyes of men, and save it for some man who will be lucky enough to be her husband someday. She did not feel like she had to dress modestly, but she wanted to, and feels good doing so.
I also have relatives who are Mormon - and one day it hit me, that my then-in-highschool female cousin never looked “skanky” in any of her pictures. She always looked well put together and quite professional for a grade 11 and 12 teen.
Then I looked at my Protestant friends - I have seen one of my friends’ cleavage more times than I care for. And its right out there for everyone to see. And this is a good “Christian” girl - my guess is she is just way too naive to know what men (and women!) are actually thinking.
In any case, since last summer, I have started dressing much more modestly. Skirts/shorts to my knees, and covering my shoulders. Now that its getting warmer, and it does get crazy hot where I live, it might take some being creative.
I wish more girls dressed modestly - I think sometimes it may come down to just having a talk with them and seeing what their thoughts are and if they are able to understand God’s given Holiness of their bodies.
As for men - I live in a town where men are always shirtless in the summer, with shaved chests! I figured if I can see that a man shaves his chest, he should very well put his shirt back on.
D
drfye
Guest
I agree with this. I think the best way to judge yourself on modesty would be to look at your intentions when you go out, do you think what your wearing is approprite for the setting your walking into? are you looking to get THAT kind of attention or are you just wearing what you find comfortable?
I also think there is merit in what this person said about guys as well. Being respectful of others feelings when you go out is good of course but if I as a guy can’t walk past a women wearing something that I might consider immodest, especially in todays society, without sexually objectifying her then I think it’s on me as a guy to try harder to control myself. If I go to the gym and can’t stop myself from staring at the women working out I don’t really see how I could fault the women for that. that’s what I think .
S
severus68
Guest
Well said.
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Evangelization does not equal beating people over the head about what they do and what they wear. Nobody likes a moralist nitpick, especially today when people are becoming aware of how such nitpicks have had just as much a hand in tyrannizing society as moral relativism. Ever wondered why society is just going back and forth between the two? It’s because people can’t learn to mind their own business.
I use the common man’s definition of judge. That clear enough for you? I don’t see why you insist on semantic juggling when I’m just driving a simple point. You don’t let your eyes tell you everything. Period. There’s always more to what a pair of gel-covered light receptors will tell you about the world and the people in it.
I do that to any person who is more for the alleviation of responsibility than taking it up.
You put the two words side by side and failed to make any distinction. The fact is, you demean the concept of honor along with its ties to personal responsibility.
That’s like saying a person can present themselves as an obstacle of ridicule and hatred with the same assertion on clothing’s role. You want to know why clothing plays such a role?
Answer: Because you let it. You let your eyes tell you what to believe. You let appearances deceive you and you do so with joy by hailing the behavior which justifies and enables such shallowness.
S
severus68
Guest
Re your words I put in bold, does that mean a woman who is dressed ‘lmmodestly’ according to you and is raped, asked for it as using your words she presented herself as “an object of lust” ?
F
fredms3
Guest
You got me right Nickiwool…God bless.
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
You want to know what I’m thinking? I’m thinking of how to manage writing 2500+ words worth of quality marketing content in less than four hours without getting a migraine. This is coming from a guy who’s female superior and female co-workers aren’t afraid to wear short skirts, even formal ones.
J
johnnyjones
Guest
You need to be informed that you have little or no understanding of the verse (Matt. 7:1) you use to support your position. So no, it is not “clear enough” for me. This verse has been misinterpreted over the ages to say, “Hey, don’t judge me.” Jesus is not telling his disciples they can not judge the behavior of others. Of course we can decide what is good and bad behavior.
Judging a soul and behavior are two different things. If we look at another person and think we are better than them because they are sinners, thats judging. This is the Catholic teaching on the matter. Many words can have two or three meanings in scripture. “Firstborn” is one of those words.
Stop doing what your doing, and that is, assigning a"common meaning" to a word and ripping context apart. As well, “society” implies secularism, so don’t put your stock in that, put it in the truth of the church. Do you ever question society?
Christianity needs the conscience of thoughts, acts, behavior to be alive and point out stumbling blocks. Much of our cohesiveness hinges on those things. It is great that you have honor, but not every man is a Christian or as stoic as you are. The Christian community is a whole. Most men and women know that clothes matter.
If I put the words love and hate" side by side" in two separate sentences does that mean they are equal? We are called out from “society” and how we present ourselves has a bearing on our Christianity. Back in St.Paul’s time they were concerned even about braided hair and necklesses on women. Do you think it’s a leap to now believe breasts hanging out and skin tight short skirts is not a distraction for some men? Just wear a bikini to mass, no problem.
Believe it or not my friend, what people do, matters.
J
johnnyjones
Guest
Re your words I put in bold, does that mean a woman who is dressed ‘lmmodestly’ according to you and is raped, asked for it as using your words she presented herself as “an object of lust” ?
When you look at a woman with LUST in your heart, you’ve already committed adultry. LUST automatically equals rape?!. Do you think a stumbling block, as in lust, means rape? Your doing an age old extreme example citation. Yes, unfortunately there have been wicked men who have raped women and blamed it on a girls clothes.
If your just looking (dwelling on ) a woman with lust as Jesus said, that’s THOUGHT, not action. Rape is “action”. I wonder if in today’s age a scantily clad women would cause a man to “look” at a women a little more?
P
Portrait
Guest
Dear johnnyjones,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Jolly well said and bang on target.
How very sad that many modern Catholic women see nothing wrong with being scantily dressed in inappropriate clothing. Indeed, dear friend, it ought to be a simple matter of sanctified common sense, but many take their cue from the fashions and tastes of our debased Western culture and allow these to dictate as to what is modest or immodest. There has been a complete and widespread loss of moral sense since that decade of decadence, the 1960’s, and it now seems that virtually anything goes. Those who continue to swim against the worldly trends and point to Catholic standards of decency in dress are not invariably dismissed as Puritan prudes or judgmental legalists. Such are the Laodicean times in which our lot is cast and our plight is, I believe, very desperate indeed.
It beggars belief, dear friend, that you have Catholic women defending their right to don tarty garments such as the mini-skirt, which voluptously flaunts their legs. Aside from this being downright unseemly attire, the mini-skirt owes its origin to one Mary Quant here in the UK. Its emergence on the fashion scene of so called ‘swinging sixties’ London was very bound up with the Woman’s Liberation movement. This disgusting garment became a powerful symbol of a woman being able to choose how she wanted to dress, in addition to allowing her to exercise some sort of ‘power’ over men by being a temptress. Along with the advent of the pill at around the same time, the mini-skirt soon became a powerful influence in the rising tide of cultural and moral deterioration, the sad effects of which continue to be felt today. For example, we have more teenage pregnancies in the UK than in most European countries and young people are loosing their innocence and growing up far too quickly. Of course the mini-skirt alone is not responsible for all this sad state of affairs, but it admits of no doubt that it has played no small part in the gradual corrosion of moral standards. Thus Catholic women who have no objection to wearing a mini-skirt and vociferiously defend their right to do so, should remember and ponder its shameful history before doning such a tarty garment.
All immodest and indecent attire has resulted in the disordered fixation with body parts, which in turn has resulted in the increasing sexualisation of our Western culture and the prevalent decadence which is a sad feature of it. Unless Catholics want to implicated in this aggressive sexualisation of society an obligation is laid upon them to eshew all unseemly garments that a make a mockery of their profession of religion. If ever there was a time to dare to be different and to resolutely refuse to conform to the debased standards and fashions in our midst, then surely that time is the present. Are we not enjoined by St. James to keep ourselves “unstained from the world” (Jam. 1: 27)?
God bless and thankyou for your excellent (name removed by moderator)ut to this current thread, dear friend.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
W
Walking_Home
Guest
From what I have seen – the “modesty” movement itself – promotes/engenders a “disordered fixation on body parts”.
W
Walking_Home
Guest
When you look at a woman with LUST in your heart, you’ve already committed adultry. LUST automatically equals rape?!. Do you think a stumbling block, as in lust, means rape? Your doing an age old extreme example citation. Yes, unfortunately there have been wicked men who have raped women and blamed it on a girls clothes.
If your just looking (dwelling on ) a woman with lust as Jesus said, that’s THOUGHT, not action. Rape is “action”. I wonder if in today’s age a scantily clad women would cause a man to “look” at a women a little more?
Lust is an action of the mind. A lustful man will transfer what is already present in his mind – onto the woman. Lust does not come via the woman – from the outside in – but from the lustful man’s mind.
S
severus68
Guest
This fixation on judging women on their clothes itself appears to be an objectification of women, seeing them only as sexual body parts, to be reined in.
S
severus68
Guest
I was responding to your equating how a person dresses (when it does not meet your standards of “modesty”), to presenting herself as an object of lust. I did not equate lust with rape. My question to you was:When you look at a woman with LUST in your heart, you’ve already committed adultry. LUST automatically equals rape?!. Do you think a stumbling block, as in lust, means rape? Your doing an age old extreme example citation. Yes, unfortunately there have been wicked men who have raped women and blamed it on a girls clothes.
If your just looking (dwelling on ) a woman with lust as Jesus said, that’s THOUGHT, not action. Rape is “action”. I wonder if in today’s age a scantily clad women would cause a man to “look” at a women a little more?
"does that mean a woman who is dressed ‘lmmodestly’ according to you and is raped, asked for it as using your words she presented herself as “an object of lust” ?
Perhaps you could answer that and not go off tangent?
P
Portrait
Guest
Dear severus68,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hope all is well.
If that is the case, dear sister, then our Church and Sacred Scripture have objectified women, since both have always insisted strongly on women being clad in modest vesture.
Of course women should not be viewed only in terms of body parts, but we must needs take into consideration mankind’s fallen estate and the presence of concupiscence. This is precisely what St. Paul did when he enjoined women to “adorn themselves modestly and with seemly attire” (I Tim. 2: 9). Given our fallenness, steps must be taken by both women and men to neutralize the strength of evil desire and this will include wearing clothing that will not incite lust or impure thoughts, in either of the sexes. Whilst lust does originate from within man’s heart, it is still, nevertheless, wont to be stumulated by external factors, hence St. Paul’s counsel for women to dress decently with a proper reserve. As a pre-VII manual of instruction puts it:
“The virtue of modesty is the virtue which protects chastity by inclining us to guard our senses, so as not to invite temptation, and to be considerate in our dress and behaviour, so as not to cause temptation in others”
(Christ in Us, Killgallon and Weber, Sheed & Ward 1959, p. 268).
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
"
- Status