Modesty in Dress, Confused

[Serenity_Rose]

I have a question regarding Saint Padre Pio. He had rules regarding the dress of women, especially to the Confessional. Women had to wear long skirts or dresses and modest tops to the Confessional.

Did this apply only to the Confessional, or did this apply to Mass and day to day life too? Is this still supposed to be practiced now a days? Would he have allowed a full-length skirt to Mass and Confession and other times when you can have a full-length skirt (and pants when you can’t)? What if your job (or job search) is not allowing for a full-length skirt?


(I am not sure if this is in the right forum…)

 

[PerfectTiming]

Saint Padre Pio, a great and holy man though he was, had some very extreme rules on dress for women. I’m not saying they’re wrong, but they are very strict. I can only find reference to these rules regarding confession, not mass or any everyday life. They were for women confessing to him, not the world in general. There is no reason you should feel obligated to follow what he ruled for those confessing to him. It’s not a general Church teaching or ruling, it was personal to him.

I’ve never worn a full-length skirt in my life, aside from my high school graduation when I had a floor-length gown. I don’t think that’s immodest. I follow the fingertips rule: if you stand with your arms by your sides then your fingertips should be above the hem of your skirt.

 

[mariafransisca1]

You should dress like the saints did

You can pick one as a role model

Do not follow the world, even if it requires you to sacrifice your job, friends, do not lose hold of your eternal salvation. Of the prospects of earning heaven, that we trade with money, job, etc.

It doesn’t worth earning hell for all eternity

stgemmagalgani.com

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

St Gemma’s Mantlette and dress that she wore every day

Heaven is worth the sacrifice.

On earth, and for eternity with Jesus. Imitate mother mary on how to dress

In fatima apparitions, mother mary warned that it will come a fashion that offends God…

I do not want to offend God… I am tempted to dress immodestly too, but I do not think it is worth the anguish in our hearts, and offending God.

It is hard to find modest clothes on the store today. We have to pray over it. God, give me modest clothes because I do not know where I can get it. Give me the grace to dress as you will, for love of you, to please you. That’s what I do…

 

[dafrenchman]

It Seems that at our church some women have very short arms and they spend the whole mass pulling and tugging, I prefer dresses below the knees personally.

 

[Alexander_Smith]

Saint Padre Pio, a great and holy man though he was, had some very extreme rules on dress for women. I’m not saying they’re wrong, but they are very strict. I can only find reference to these rules regarding confession, not mass or any everyday life. They were for women confessing to him, not the world in general. There is no reason you should feel obligated to follow what he ruled for those confessing to him. It’s not a general Church teaching or ruling, it was personal to him.

I’ve never worn a full-length skirt in my life, aside from my high school graduation when I had a floor-length gown. I don’t think that’s immodest. I follow the fingertips rule: if you stand with your arms by your sides then your fingertips should be above the hem of your skirt.

Okay I’m a guy, but when I stand with my hands at my sides, my fingertips are about 3/4 of a foot above my knee, and I would never believe that is modest, not even my shorts are that short.

I don’t believe any skirt or dress can be called modest if it is above the knees.

But maybe I’m wrong.

 

[PerfectTiming]

Okay I’m a guy, but when I stand with my hands at my sides, my fingertips are about 3/4 of a foot above my knee, and I would never believe that is modest, not even my shorts are that short.

I don’t believe any skirt or dress can be called modest if it is above the knees.

But maybe I’m wrong.

Men are proportioned different to women: I believe men tend to have longer torsos than women, which could be why if you use the fingertip measurement it comes out as seeming very immodest but if I do the same thing it doesn’t. Though of course it depends on individual proportions even within sexes, for example my sister has very long legs so she couldn’t do the same thing but for my height and my proportions it works.

I personally don’t know what’s so offensive about knees. Maybe it’s a cultural thing (I’m half-Brazilian).

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Here’s a great video, the sermon given by a Catholic priest at a televised Mass on EWTN. He gives some practical advice about what’s acceptable for Holy Mass, and what qualifies as immodest.

youtube.com/watch?v=PZHECJJbzPM

 

[Jesus_123]

+Below is a quote from the wisdom of the Catechism regarding modesty . . . which contains some excellent guidelines . . .

****. . . :compcoff: . . .
****The Catechism of the Catholic Church

2521. Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.

2522. Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires ones choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is descreet. (italics CM)
**
2523. **There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body… Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies.

:bible1:
Mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity.
Against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:23

*“To seek to reconcile the faith with the modern spirit leads much further than people think, not only to the weakening of the faith, but to its total loss.” *- Pope St. Pius X, May 27th 1914

"How beautiful then is modesty
and what a gem among virtues it is."

• St. Bernard, Confessor and Doctor of the Church

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Holy Mother Mary+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Church+​

 

[Young_Thinker]

If a man like myself (or a lady like St. Gianna Molla, no less) can be clothed in half-sleeves (not to mention that my pastor was wearing short trousers a few days ago), then I do not see anything that is wrong with a woman donning a knee-skirt. Even a miniskirt (but not micro-mini) could be acceptable if stockings (though probably not if flesh-colored or of the fishnet variety) or go-go boots are also worn, and the accompanying blouse, if uncovered (i.e. not under a coat or shawl), is not too low-cut or a tank-top (at least not in church).

 

[kozlosap]

Saint Padre Pio, a great and holy man though he was, had some very extreme rules on dress for women. I’m not saying they’re wrong, but they are very strict. I can only find reference to these rules regarding confession, not mass or any everyday life. They were for women confessing to him, not the world in general. There is no reason you should feel obligated to follow what he ruled for those confessing to him. It’s not a general Church teaching or ruling, it was personal to him.

I’ve never worn a full-length skirt in my life, aside from my high school graduation when I had a floor-length gown. I don’t think that’s immodest. I follow the fingertips rule: if you stand with your arms by your sides then your fingertips should be above the hem of your skirt.

:thumbsup:I agree with you! I’m sure Padre Pio was a very holy person, but I’m also certain that turning one part of your flock away from confession because of your own bizarre dress requirements don’t seem to make you a particularly approachable priest. Jesus turned away no one.

 

[follow_Christ]

To Mariafransisca1,
Quote “You should dress like the saints did”
Do you think we as Lay Catholics, should dress like a religious? I’m wanting to dress more modestly, so i hope you can elaborate on your answer. I’m genuinely interested!
Thanks

 

[Serenity_Rose]

I think the link to the video is very interesting. Why bare arms? What is impure about arms that are bare (or at least not covered in a half or three-quarter sleeve)?

mariafransisca1 -
I think what you said is very interesting you have a good point. The video that Joseph L Varga posted the link to talks about provoking people to sin through the way that you are dressed. The saints would not have dressed in a manner that provokes others to sin. The saints would have dressed in a manner that respected others in the highest level.

 

[kozlosap]

I think the link to the video is very interesting. Why bare arms? What is impure about arms that are bare (or at least not covered in a half or three-quarter sleeve)?

mariafransisca1 -
I think what you said is very interesting you have a good point. The video that Joseph L Varga posted the link to talks about provoking people to sin through the way that you are dressed. The saints would not have dressed in a manner that provokes others to sin. The saints would have dressed in a manner that respected others in the highest level.

Please don’t perpetuate the fallacy that you can provoke someone to sin by the way you dress. Sexual crimes are not facilitated by how a woman dresses - they are crimes of power. Find a saint born in the late 20th Century and emulate their dress if you wish, but don’t quote ignorance…

 

[Prayerfully]

St Gianna Molla wore dresses and skirts to Mass, ski pants when skiing, and hiking shorts when rock-climbing. Pretty much she dressed modestly and wore what was appropriate for her activities.

I have heard the tales of St Pio’s comments from the confessional and wonder what kind of woman would go around discussing what she was told in the confessional with others to the point that it gets world-wide attention in the first place? Perhaps St Pio’s issue were with the way the women were behaving, rather than what they wore and he deemed that changing what he considered “immodest” clothes would help the women change their behavior. I really can’t see him calling out St Gianna for wearing a dress with sleeves above her elbows or pants when snow-skiing; given how holy she was!!

Next, please check out Brother JR’s comments on Post #19 of the following thread here on CAF: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=561169&page=2 (specifically his second point, but the whole post is terrific!!)

He kind of sums up the whole “Catholic burqua-quest” that some people feel is necessary to be modest.

 

[Serenity_Rose]

Please don’t perpetuate the fallacy that you can provoke someone to sin by the way you dress. Sexual crimes are not facilitated by how a woman dresses - they are crimes of power. Find a saint born in the late 20th Century and emulate their dress if you wish, but don’t quote ignorance…

No, I wasn’t talking at all about sexual crimes. You’re right, sexual crimes are crimes of power, but I was not in any way referring to them.

Sorry I do not know if I explained it very well. I had an explanation posted about what I meant, but I do not know how to explain it without causing problems. My feeble attempt at trying…

The only example I can think of is someone seeing someone dressed provocatively (a misc. genderless first person) and the other person sees them and (a misc. genderless second person) goes home later to masturbate. There is sin there against God by the second person provoked by the first person… the masturbation… but there is no sexual crime against the first person. It says in the Bible that the thought is the same as the action… and that is what I was referring to.

But I was trying to explain in such a way as that I did not create confusion with what I meant. You have my most sincere apology for coming across as having referred to sexual violence, as I did not mean it. The victims of sexual crimes have been through enough… they need prayers…

 

[Serenity_Rose]

I know how to explain myself.

It says in another part of the Bible something about the gravity of prompting another to sin… and it says again that thoughts are the same as action. I was talking about the sin of lust. Someone lusting (in their thoughts) after another outside of the confines of marriage, promoted by the dress of another is a sin against God. The person prompting the sin (in their thoughts in this case) would have the greater sin for causing another to sin.

Section 2528 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church explains what it is that I am talking about here.

 

[dixieagle]

St Gianna Molla wore dresses and skirts to Mass, ski pants when skiing, and hiking shorts when rock-climbing. Pretty much she dressed modestly and wore what was appropriate for her activities.

I have heard the tales of St Pio’s comments from the confessional and wonder what kind of woman would go around discussing what she was told in the confessional with others to the point that it gets world-wide attention in the first place? Perhaps St Pio’s issue were with the way the women were behaving, rather than what they wore and he deemed that changing what he considered “immodest” clothes would help the women change their behavior. I really can’t see him calling out St Gianna for wearing a dress with sleeves above her elbows or pants when snow-skiing; given how holy she was!!

Next, please check out Brother JR’s comments on Post #19 of the following thread here on CAF: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=561169&page=2 (specifically his second point, but the whole post is terrific!!)

He kind of sums up the whole “Catholic burqua-quest” that some people feel is necessary to be modest.

You just can’t go wrong with what Brother JR’s suggests; eminently sensible - as we should be.

We are not Muslims, nor Amish, nor 1st century Jewish women. Decent length skirts, no cleavage showing, pants that aren’t too tight…that about covers it. I prefer to wear things that aren’t sleeveless, but that’s just my preference…if I had arms like Michelle Obama, I might think otherwise.

 

[Saphire]

I watched the video and understood it. I wish he would come and speak at the parish I attend.

 

[Serenity_Rose]

Back to my question. Why are bare arms immodest?

Prayerfully - Thank you very much. I appreciate the link. Very interesting link.

 

[Love_Divine]

Men are proportioned different to women: I believe men tend to have longer torsos than women, which could be why if you use the fingertip measurement it comes out as seeming very immodest but if I do the same thing it doesn’t. Though of course it depends on individual proportions even within sexes, for example my sister has very long legs so she couldn’t do the same thing but for my height and my proportions it works.

I personally don’t know what’s so offensive about knees. Maybe it’s a cultural thing (I’m half-Brazilian).

For me, even going to the knees is too short, because the skirt goes higher when I sit. The other problem isn’t so much with the front, but what you see from behind when a person walks; it’s especially revealing if you’re walking up the stairs and someone is walking behind you a few steps below.