Modesty in dress?

fencersmother · Oct 22, 2014

I totally associate “rules for dressing” with protestants of many stripes, Amish, Mennonite, Fundy, some Evangelicals. Especially rules for female dress. The only Catholics I have ever known who have had “dress rules” are consecrated & clergy. The laity I believe traditionally wore mostly whatever was culturally appropriate with some restrictions pre-V2.

At that time, womens heads had to be covered and I believe shoulders, too. While there were and are cultural standards, I am aware only of protestants requiring dresses/skirts for everyday for women, etc.

Speaking of the Duggars, when a couple of the older girls wanted to join the fire department (a very male job), they changed the firefighters uniform into a long skirt. really? REALLY?

Bonnie · Oct 22, 2014

fencersmother said:
Speaking of the Duggars, when a couple of the older girls wanted to join the fire department (a very male job), they changed the firefighters uniform into a long skirt. really? REALLY?

Neither practical or safe. Unless they never leave the fire station. Tho I’m curious - did the men have to wear long skirts, too?

CB_Catholic · Oct 22, 2014

I fail to see what the cut or length of one’s hair has anything to do with covering up one’s genitals or breasts adequately, unless it’s so long you can wrap it around you.

edwest2 · Oct 22, 2014

sdegutis said:
My wife and I have been watching that show “19 kids and counting” and they’re Christian but not Catholic.

One appealing thing about them is that they have a well-defined idea of modesty. For example, the women/girls in their family wear their hair long, and the men/boys wear their hair short and always remain clean-shaven.

So I was wondering, does the Catholic Church have any standards of modesty? My wife and I discussed it, and my main belief is that modesty is way more about actions/attitude than looks. But even after addressing actions/attitude, we still have to consider looks.

catholicmodesty.com/Popesonmodesty.html

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=1087

Regarding actions and attitudes for women:

amazon.com/Extreme-Makeover-Transformed-Conformed-Culture/dp/1586175610

Peace,
Ed

edwest2 · Oct 22, 2014

ialsop said:
How so?

Im not challenging you, as you certainly are allowed to wear pants if you want, but why do you say that the “all skirts and dresses” idea is protestant? I think, on the contrary that it is VERY traditonal

Skirts, that at least cover the knees, and dresses are not only traditional but feminine.

Peace,
Ed

Book_Worm · Oct 22, 2014

Jesus had long hair and did not wear pants.

I find this emphasis on externals, for reasons on both sides of the moral spectrum, only deflects attention from our actions and beliefs.

ialsop · Oct 22, 2014

edwest2 said:
Skirts, that at least cover the knees, and dresses are not only traditional but feminine.

Peace,
Ed

I think so too. So I think they are good for daily dress.
Obviously, women should not be RESTRICTED to it, it is their choice, and as has been pointed out, some jobs would find that totally impractical. But if I was a woman and I could do so, say at school or an office job or at home or something to where the job was practical, I would wear just skirts and dresses.
But women are not restricted to it, of course.

fencersmother · Oct 22, 2014

When I wear jumpers or skirts, I always wear leggings or bike shorts underneath.

I fix my own appliances and I can say that being under a washing machine in a jumper is really not good - practically speaking.

Jesus never owned pants, had long hair, too. That didn’t make him unmanly. Wearing slacks will never make me unfeminine.

My friend, a WOMAN, has fifteen children, and she very seldom wears dresses or skirts. She is the mother of five priests, one brother, and two sisters. I dare anyone to call HER unfeminine because she prefers slacks to dresses.

Oh, and like the other “fast” girls, she bobs her hair.

edwest2 · Oct 22, 2014

Book_Worm said:
Jesus had long hair and did not wear pants.

I find this emphasis on externals, for reasons on both sides of the moral spectrum, only deflects attention from our actions and beliefs.

Look at the “fashion industry.” A small group of fashion elitists decide what body shape is in style, what clothes should be available and what kind of makeup and hair a woman should have. It’s a dictatorship that is spread by magazines, actresses, and fashion models. It is conformity of the year. It reduces the dignity of women to that of objects. It creates an unhealthy body image in the minds of teenage girls. Those stick thin models are not reality. Not every woman has the same body shape or desires to wear makeup or fix her hair the way the fashion dictatorship wants them to.

If young women buy into exposing as much skin as possible – that’s wrong. I saw a photo of a model wearing a bikini. It was cut so low that it was a few millimeters away from being obscene. Anyone who thinks that is “swimwear” is fooling themselves.

Women are only allowed to buy what’s on the racks. And who decides what goes on the racks? Buyers for major stores, not the public.

And it gets worse as time passes. A quick look at magazines from 10 or 20 years ago is proof. It has gotten worse.

Ed

LisaB · Oct 22, 2014

sdegutis said:
For some context, the question originated when my wife and I were discussing whether I should grow my beard and mustache out, and whether I should keep my hair short or grow it down to my chin.

The Church doesn’t mind if you have a beard and wear long hair, but your wife might. I’d go with what SHE says.

Lost_Wanderer · Oct 23, 2014

edwest2 said:
And it gets worse as time passes. A quick look at magazines from 10 or 20 years ago is proof. It has gotten worse.

I’d post some rather sexist and racist ads from the 50s but the mods might delete. Suffice it to say, I think you really need to stop giving this era too much credit in terms immorality.

And on the subject of body image, as always it’s about women. Being male, what about the body image of Mr. Universe types and everything else you’ll find on a sports mag?

Everyone on either end of this debate seem all for telling people that the Barbie doll culture is unhealthy. Ask them about the He-man culture on the other hand and all I get is silence on these boards.

(Or worse, both sides perpetuate the equally oppressive regime of ‘manliness.’ Whether it’s the religious handing you a sword or a thug handing you a semi, both constantly scream at every other guy to “BE A MAN!!!”

)

KendraDZ1902 · Oct 23, 2014

edwest2 said:
Look at the “fashion industry.” A small group of fashion elitists decide what body shape is in style, what clothes should be available and what kind of makeup and hair a woman should have. It’s a dictatorship that is spread by magazines, actresses, and fashion models. It is conformity of the year. It reduces the dignity of women to that of objects. It creates an unhealthy body image in the minds of teenage girls. Those stick thin models are not reality. Not every woman has the same body shape or desires to wear makeup or fix her hair the way the fashion dictatorship wants them to.

If young women buy into exposing as much skin as possible – that’s wrong. I saw a photo of a model wearing a bikini. It was cut so low that it was a few millimeters away from being obscene. Anyone who thinks that is “swimwear” is fooling themselves.

Women are only allowed to buy what’s on the racks. And who decides what goes on the racks? Buyers for major stores, not the public.

And it gets worse as time passes. A quick look at magazines from 10 or 20 years ago is proof. It has gotten worse.

Ed

You can be fashionable and modest.

sudy · Oct 23, 2014

As far as my understanding goes, modesty is the shield of chastity.

I think that anything we do for God’s sake is good. Any offering we can make will be acceptable. The Bible teaches us not to do things to cause our brother to stumble also. And I also think that it’s easy to take on more than we can chew, so to speak, which can make us feel worse if we should fail.

Modesty of dress depends on whom you ask. In my opinion it’s not about girls wearing skirts vs trousers, or having long vs short hair etc., it’s about behaving, and dressing, in a way that doesn’t cause others to sin. In your own family though you can choose what is right, and whatever you do for God will be acceptable to Him.

fpt · Oct 23, 2014

edwest2 said:
catholicmodesty.com/Popesonmodesty.html

**
Standards of Modesty in Dress
Imprimatur dated Sept. 24, 1956
“A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent materials are improper.”
The Cardinal Vicar of Pius XI
**

This quote is not existing. It is a hoax, a pure invention, because there is nothing in the original documents. Stop, stop with the disinformation and Co.

fpt · Oct 23, 2014

sdegutis said:
My wife and I have been watching that show “19 kids and counting” and they’re Christian but not Catholic.

One appealing thing about them is that they have a well-defined idea of modesty. For example, the women/girls in their family wear their hair long, and the men/boys wear their hair short and always remain clean-shaven.

So I was wondering, does the Catholic Church have any standards of modesty? My wife and I discussed it, and my main belief is that modesty is way more about actions/attitude than looks. But even after addressing actions/attitude, we still have to consider looks.

The Duggar family is linked to protestant movements, largo sensu (quiverfull and Co). They do not have the true catholic understanding of things, in the details with all subtleties. This family is touched by some heresies and ideologies about: the ends of marriage, the condition of woman, the condition of wife and Co. Only, the teaching of Roman Catholic Church, in the details, with all subtleties and with Faith and reason and Reason and Faith, has to be followed by the catholic lay persons:** not more and not less.**

In addition, you need to avoid the catholic mentalities of morality coming from the U.S.A. and from English speaking countries, in order to understand the deep view of Catholicism, because of those lands are touched culturally by some heresies about the material nature of human beings. In the USA and in the English speaking countries there’s still a significant undercurrent of Puritan beliefs, and even more, some “catholics” are polluted by this cultural poison. The european countries are more moderated and balanced, even if we have our own heresies, of course.

A big work of purification (in the catholic way) in the several dimensions of the human nature should be done. Catholic education is very important.

sdegutis · Oct 23, 2014

Yeah, I give up. Unsubscribing. Sorry, I just don’t have time to repeat myself.

LightBound · Oct 23, 2014

sdegutis said:
Yeah, I give up. Unsubscribing. Sorry, I just don’t have time to repeat myself.

edwest2 · Oct 23, 2014

LisaB said:
The Church doesn’t mind if you have a beard and wear long hair, but your wife might. I’d go with what SHE says.

Oh - definitely

Besides, if you don’t listen, who will fix your meals?

Ed

Sky_River · Oct 23, 2014

Book_Worm said:
J**esus had long hair and did not wear pants. **

I find this emphasis on externals, for reasons on both sides of the moral spectrum, only deflects attention from our actions and beliefs.

What did men wear in ancient times, if they didnt wear pants?

LightBound · Oct 23, 2014

Sky_River said:
What did men wear in ancient times, if they didnt wear pants?

Robes, tunics. If you want to get really ancient- animal skins. Native Americans and many Asian cultures had both sexes wearing what would be considered “pants” centuries before the men in Western cultures wore them.

Modesty in dress?

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