Modesty in marriage

[bpbasilphx]

\And, if you happen to catch the other person naked, and think, “Hey, we could have sex”, that’s not lust - that’s a natural reaction. It’s not taking inordinate pleasure or interest.\

**“My beloved is so beautiful” is a healthy, normal reaction, too.

There’s a big difference between maidenly shyness and prudery.

BTW–how many people think of sex when they see Michaelangelo’s David or the Venus de Milo?**

 

[Shin]

JMJ
I disagree, there’s no reason to be naked unless one will be (then or very soon) engaging in the marital act. There is such a thing as lust in marriage, and we both want to avoid sin as much as possible.

You have the right view. It’s good to see!

 

[CFI]

JMJ
I disagree, there’s no reason to be naked unless one will be (then or very soon) engaging in the marital act. There is such a thing as lust in marriage, and we both want to avoid sin as much as possible.

If that were true, it is technically possible to have the marital act without to be naked.
However I think that nudity is absolutely required during the whole intercourse and it is beneficial whenever the spouses want intimacy.

 

[Lady_Kikyo]

If that were true, it is technically possible to have the marital act without to be naked. However I think that nudity is absolutely required during the whole intercourse and it is beneficial whenever the spouses want intimacy.

I know for a fact that being naked is not required before, during, or after the marital act, in any sense of the word “required.” But I’m sure that it’s beneficial…in fact, I have no doubt about that, assuming people don’t turn it into something twisted… …just awkward intitially I guess…

 

[CFI]

I know for a fact that being naked is not required before, during, or after the marital act, in any sense of the word “required.” But I’m sure that it’s beneficial…in fact, I have no doubt about that, assuming people don’t turn it into something twisted… …just awkward intitially I guess…

You are saying that nudity is not required before, during, or after the marital act. This is true if you are looking at the technical aspect, not “in any sense of the word”.
The marital act has to be expression of the mutual whole gift of the spouses. I think that only the whole nudity can suitably express this gift.
Besides, I think that being naked together can be useful for the spouses also in other times. For example they can sleep naked.
Sometime there is a sort of shame also between the spouses. This is the fruit of Victorian era.

 

[Shin]

LOL. The Victorian era. As if it affected us now. No, shame is natural, a certain moderate level of it is a good thing, it tells us when we are reacting in ways that are in fact, shameful.

Or as it is said, the natural law, the law of God is written in every heart.

Shamelessness is the problem, people suppress their sense of shame, and commit all sorts of shameless acts. It is the great blindness of our time.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

LOL. The Victorian era. As if it affected us now. No, shame is natural, a certain moderate level of it is a good thing, it tells us when we are reacting in ways that are in fact, shameful.

Or as it is said, the natural law, the law of God is written in every heart.

Shamelessness is the problem, people suppress their sense of shame, and commit all sorts of shameless acts. It is the great blindness of our time.

I would strongly disagree that bodily shame between spouses is “a good thing.” At what point does withholding the vision of one’s body in marriage become the withholding of what is supposed to be the total self-giving of one partner to another?

 

[Shin]

I would strongly disagree that bodily shame between spouses is “a good thing.” At what point does withholding the vision of one’s body in marriage become the withholding of what is supposed to be the total self-giving of one partner to another?

Well, just as a beginning to something more – When one is giving into lust.

Total self giving is not total gluttony.

I.E. your spouse is not your cake to eat all you want of all the time and gorge yourself on, and tantalize yourself with all the time.

If you think about what gluttony involves with food, and read what the saints have to say about it, that might help a bit.

I hate to surprise you if you think that marriage is all about total sensual self indulgence, but you have to restrain yourself there too.

 

[DJgang]

I know for a fact that being naked is not required before, during, or after the marital act, in any sense of the word “required.” But I’m sure that it’s beneficial…in fact, I have no doubt about that, assuming people don’t turn it into something twisted… …just awkward intitially I guess…

Prayer for your upcoming marriage.

Like someone else said…it takes time to get comfortable with being totally nude with your spouse…take your time and enjoy one another…nope, being naked is not required…but it is fun…ya know…when you get comfortable with it…

 

[Mattapoisett64]

Well, just as a beginning to something more – When one is giving into lust.

Total self giving is not total gluttony.

I.E. your spouse is not your cake to eat all you want of all the time and gorge yourself on, and tantalize yourself with all the time.

If you think about what gluttony involves with food, and read what the saints have to say about it, that might help a bit.

I hate to surprise you if you think that marriage is all about total sensual self indulgence, but you have to restrain yourself there too.

Could you tell me what, specifically, I said that led you to characterize my statement as a belief that “marriage is all about total sensual self indulgence?” That’s it for you? Either spouses have a sense of shame about their bodies, or they are libertines pursuing a life of “total sensual self indulgence?” (To say nothing about gluttony? Where did that come from in my statement?

 

[CFI]

I would strongly disagree that bodily shame between spouses is “a good thing.” At what point does withholding the vision of one’s body in marriage become the withholding of what is supposed to be the total self-giving of one partner to another?

I also disagree that bodily shame between spouses could be “a good thing”. If spouses cannot show one another naked, how they can give one another the authority over their bodies?
“A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does have not authority over his own body, but rather his wife. Do not deprive each other…” (1 Corinthians 7:4-5).

 

[Abenadar]

I think some people are forgetting that it is possible to lust after one’s spouse, and that there is a right way and a wrong way to love each other. If you’re walking around the house naked and he has no intention of initiating/completing the marriage act, but rather just likes what he sees this could cause him to lust and objectify in his thoughts. Your beauty is special…Keep it special.

I think modesty is a good thing, but where my wife and our home life are concerned I’m certainly not a prude. We take good care of one another, but when I am home with my wife I always try to maintain a sense of modesty out of respect for her and the dignity of our vocation as married folk. Her perfection is extraordinary; she’s not just part of the scenery for no other reason than to gawk. Isn’t turning on your spouse and completing the marriage act the the reason for being naked? I go into the bathroom with my pajamas on and come out fully dressed for the day. I go in fully dressed at night, and come out in my pajamas. It’s just more practical, and if either of us want something more, it’s pretty easy…

Listen, there’s nothing wrong with going around the house in the buff sometimes (I guess), but it’s simply not practical. One should generally be prepared for the things which the day will bring, and that means being clothed (and as a Catholic, modestly so). You never know when you’ll have to go outside to take out the trash, or answer the door (or retrieve something from the car, etc. etc. etc.) and who wants to get dressed in order to do that, and then strip it all off again five minutes later? What does your fiance want to see? You vacuuming naked? You doing the dishes naked? You praying your morning/evening prayers, or daily Rosary naked? You making dinner naked (watch out for that hot oil in the pan that’s starting to spit!!!). When he gets home from work are you supposed to be just standing there naked ready to take his coat and get his shoes off so that he can bed you all the faster? What a romance Just tell the guy, “if you want something you just have to ask, and if our time and our duties permit we can be together”.

IMHO.

 

[Lady_Kikyo]

What does your fiance want to see? You vacuuming naked? You doing the dishes naked? You praying your morning/evening prayers, or daily Rosary naked? You making dinner naked (watch out for that hot oil in the pan that’s starting to spit!!!). When he gets home from work are you supposed to be just standing there naked ready to take his coat and get his shoes off so that he can bed you all the faster? What a romance Just tell the guy, “if you want something you just have to ask, and if our time and our duties permit we can be together”.

IMHO.

Oh no, he’s **nothing **like that…we’re both modest people…we just don’t want to overdo things to a sinful degree, like Shin mentioned earlier. Over-indulgence is sinful, and neither of us want to abuse our marriage that way…we just differ on…the specifics. Like I mentioned earlier, I think I’m just suffering from “typical” virgin anxieties.

 

[CFI]

I agree that modesty is a good thing and that in our culture and climate is not practical to be always naked. However also in our culture we can have different experiences…

I think modesty is a good thing, but where my wife and our home life are concerned I’m certainly not a prude. We take good care of one another, but when I am home with my wife I always try to maintain a sense of modesty out of respect for her and the dignity of our vocation as married folk. Her perfection is extraordinary; she’s not just part of the scenery for no other reason than to gawk. Isn’t turning on your spouse and completing the marriage act the the reason for being naked? I go into the bathroom with my pajamas on and come out fully dressed for the day. I go in fully dressed at night, and come out in my pajamas. It’s just more practical, and if either of us want something more, it’s pretty easy…

For example, we sleep naked. I don’t see here any lack of modesty, respect and dignity.

 

[John21652]

I am sorry, but I think otherwise. The spouses can stay naked as long as they want.
The nudity is necessary during the marital act for its meaning of whole gift of themselves. I think also that the spouses should stay often naked.

Well said. Have breakfast naked maybe! Starting on the honeymoon.

And remember this, when the time comes to have your first child and you want your husband there for the birth, then by that time you need to be totally comfortable with one another, because you will be naked, vulnerable and not feeling glorious.

 

[Lady_Kikyo]

Well said. Have breakfast naked maybe! Starting on the honeymoon.

And remember this, when the time comes to have your first child and you want your husband there for the birth, then by that time you need to be totally comfortable with one another, because you will be naked, vulnerable and not feeling glorious.

JMJ

Actually, I won’t be naked during the birth. We’re also having a mid-wife, and assuming there are no major complications, the birth will be at home. I don’t see any reason to totally strip down for a birth. It’s not mandatory, and I know that not every woman does it. If a woman chooses to do it before someone aside from her husband, she needs a serious reason.

 

[CFI]

JMJ

Actually, I won’t be naked during the birth. We’re also having a mid-wife, and assuming there are no major complications, the birth will be at home. I don’t see any reason to totally strip down for a birth. It’s not mandatory, and I know that not every woman does it. If a woman chooses to do it before someone aside from her husband, she needs a serious reason.

It seems to me that you have a serious problem with your body.

 

[Abenadar]

It seems to me that you have a serious problem with your body.

I disagree. I think she has a well formed sense of modesty, not to mention that she seems blessedly innocent (and quite naturally somewhat shy) for a person of her state, especially compared with the shocking statistics regarding unwed youth and rampant sexuality and STDs these days. If only there were more people like Lady Kikyo out there today.

Her modesty is a gift from God…to label it as “a serious problem” with her body is pretty asinine. I could say you have a serious problem with your body as well…You’ve got a foot in your mouth.

 

[Lady_Kikyo]

It seems to me that you have a serious problem with your body.

Would you like to provide an explanation for why women should strip down for doctors and midwives too? Perhaps you would be satisfied if I (or *all *women, for that matter) was naked while making my confession to the priest? After all, I’m spiritually opening up myself to him, and he is the doctor of my soul, is he not?

You’ve made your position abundantly clear, but when I requested the words of Popes or Saints, I should’ve specified that I was looking for the *Catholic *view.

My fiance isn’t marrying me so that he has his own personal pole dancer, he’s a little more Christ-like than that.

 

[Lady_Kikyo]

I’m unsubscribing now before this thread gets nasty. To all of you who provided a Catholic response and congrats, I thank you very much, and ask you to keep us in your prayers as the day approaches.

Thanks especially to Abenader and Shin.

God Bless all.